Was my characterization of “don’t bother us until you are super sick” accurate? Here is the full description from the NYC Health Dept.
Most people with COVID-19 have mild to moderate symptoms and recover on their own. Less commonly, COVID-19 may lead to pneumonia, other severe complications, hospitalization or death.
If you are sick, assume you have COVID-19. You do not need to seek testing at this time. Not getting tested protects health care workers and saves essential medical supplies that are in short supply, such as testing materials, masks and gloves.
If you have mild or moderate symptoms of COVID-19, stay home, except when you need essential medical care or basic needs, such as groceries, if you have no other way to get them.
So basically don't bother us unless you have severe symptoms!
That said - they do make exceptions if you are > 50 or you have a co-morbidity, but they still want you to wait around for 3-4 days, rather than treating immediately.
If it were me, and I had symptoms, I'd want to start an anti-viral instantly, rather than "waiting around for 3-4 days." You know, like they say to do with Tamiflu. One would think they'd be on board with this too, being medical professionals and all. But - apparently not.
You should call your health care provider if you have symptoms and one of the following applies to you:
You are 50 years of age or older, pregnant, or have other health conditions, such as:
Going back to January I knew there was going to be bureaucratic bungling at every level of healthcare in regard to CV-19. I’ve been practicing (evidence-based to this best of my ability) medicine for nearly 20 years. I’m completely bewildered over this love affair with Remdesivir by the MSM, medical boards, the WHO, etc. It literally makes zero sense. No study has shown any decrease in mortality with Remdesivir…none, nada, no hint, nothing. Same thing goes for other severe complications such as renal failure, blood clots, number of patients requiring mechanical ventilation, etc. There is evidence it may help decrease the symptomatology for 1-2 days, but that’s it. I am befuddled why the medical establishment, the press, citizens, etc., etc. aren’t asking more questions about this. If someone out there has new information on a Remdesivir study I would like to know about it.
It is extremely difficult even when trying to practice the best evidence-based medicine on some of the most basic things in medicine. Medicine is anything but black & white; it’s literally all shades of gray. Yes, first do no harm, but sometimes doing nothing is doing harm in itself. When there’s evidence showing a medicine such as HCQ is effective early on, its safety profile has been followed for 70+ years, and there’s a new disease which can have known devastating effects I’m not seeing the downside if given to non-cardiac patients & those not already taking QTc prolonging medications (QTc prolongation is the serious cardiac arrhythmia concern with HCQ). ALL medications have side effects…people have died from taking low dose aspirin. Frankly, most of the folks on medical committees are blowtards playing political games for secondary personal gain. They tend not to be folks directly caring for patient. How’s the saying go?..”Go along to get along.” Yes, I said it. Blasphemy!! If someone can show me hard data that says something to the contrary I am I most willing to change my mind. People are dying. This is no time to let political correctness, money, politics, power, etc. to get in the way of helping out humanity. On one hand completely unbelievable, on the other predictable. I hate to sound so pessimistic. I try not to to be either pessimistic or optimism, but realistic.
Here is the money chart - the story is the same as told before… clear benefit, 90% less death even for hospitalized patients in this case… and those getting HCQ were sicker to begin with!
Edit: The authors didn’t miss the fact that Azithro alone seemed to be equally beneficial vs HCQ + Azithro in these hospitalized patients;
Interestingly, patients who received azithromycin alone had a trend to a better
241 outcome than standard of care (multivariate analysis, p=0.05), in the limit of the
242 sample size (n<30). Azithromycin’s potential antiviral activity is concordant with
243 previous in vitro studies regarding SARS-CoV-2 [12] or H1N1-pdm09 [13] and one
244 clinical randomized trial in in the prevention of children respiratory infections [14]. As
245 azithromycin is commonly prescribed and authorized in ambulatory care, a study
246 conducted among general practitioners could be relevant to evaluate this single
247 therapy for the control of COVID-19 in outpatients.
A member of my facebook group, EM Docs, (not me) posted this giving evidence to the deterioration of trust in “authorities.”
Fauci has been caught red-handed, unequivocally, lying about the effectiveness and role of Remdesivir. And, most importantly, the ER doctor’s group knows that he is lying.
I also believe that he (and his group) is actively deceiving us about HCQ/azith/zinc effectiveness in the early viral replication stage of illness, and actively doing harm with the avoidance of steroidsduring the COVID phase of illness characterized by uncontrolled cytokine storm. (here, here, and here)
From another EM doctor, authors name withheld
Anthony Fauci’s credibility: Why it Matters.
Sometime in the next 12 to 18 months you will be asked by your employer to receive a newly minted vaccine for the coronavirus. In many cases it may be a Requirement for employment rather than a request.
Since I’m going to be talking about vaccine I guess I need to give a little of my background. I’m a board certified residency trained practicing emergency physician for the last 30 years. I am a strong proponent of vaccines. I receive the flu vaccine annually, and would do so even if it were optional for my employment. My wife and children are also fully vaccinated. When I travel to Haiti I received optional travel vaccines for typhoid and hepatitis A.
I recently posted “Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics” On this site to generate a discussion about how the recent research into the effectiveness of Remdesivir has been portrayed.
I was particularly appalled by characterizing Remdesivir as “the standard of care.” In my reading of the research the most optimistic description I could give would be “might be helpful deserves additional study“
I would particularly like anyone who is currently involved in clinical research to comment on the decision to terminate the study early due to the early finding of shorter hospitalizations. Especially in light of a concurrent study published that found no benefit.
A brief summary.
A study was well designed with physiologic endpoints selected to determine if R altered the course of the disease COVID-19.
Endpoints were 1)death, 2)requiring mechanical ventilation, and, 3)requiring supplemental oxygen.
After most of the data were collected these physiologic parameters were moved to secondary endpoints. The new primary endpoint of the study became “number of days hospitalized.“
The above physiologic endpoints were relegated to secondary endpoints still studied but not the primary goal of the study. No statistically significant difference was found in any of these physiologic endpoints with treatment
We are to believe that the statisticians who designed the study and selected the valid physiologic endpoints somehow had a change of heart without examining the preliminary data. They changed the entire goal of the study midway through.
Length of hospitalization was appropriately left out of the endpoints in the original study design because there are dozens of non-physiologic factors that interfere with discharge from the hospital.
My original post accused no one of dishonesty. Subsequently there have been televised interviews where Dr. Fauci claimed that the Statisticians who proposed the change to the study had not reviewed the preliminary data. I look forward to the publication and peer review where they explain what reasoning they had to make that change. The claim that they were blinded to the preliminary data is laughable on its face.
The other glaring failure that has caused me to lose confidence in Dr. Fauci is the fact that he failed to comment at all on the well-designed study [done in China] published in the Lancet just a few days earlier that found no benefit from Remdesivir. Still Fauci declared that “Remdesivir will become the standard of care”. Would anyone who reads the study in the Lancet, and looks at Dr. Fauci’s preliminary data accuse me of practicing below the standard of care if I fail to use Remdesivir on a hospitalized COVID patient?
The reason this all troubles me so is that these are the same scientists who are going to put forward a vaccine in the next 12 to 18 months that I will be expected to take.
Vaccine manufacturing and testing for a new disease should be considered on par with the moon shot: A decade long process. If all hands are brought on deck and we shorten the testing as much as possible we still should be looking at 3 to 5 years before it goes in the widespread use. I am alarmed to hear discussion of a vaccine becoming available in the next 12 to 18 months.
My fear is that our zeal to quickly bring a vaccine to market and distribute it widely will result in a flawed vaccine coming to market. This will result in the anti-vaccine movement leaping forward and will set back well proven well tested vaccines by 50 years.
The stakes are high and while I am anxious to have effective treatments and vaccines I think we need to remain vigilant and make sure that what we do this correctly. We must not fall into the trap of “hurry up and do “something“ even if it’s wrong.
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And when the head of the White House Coronavirus Task Force WHO and CDC are bending the data for power and profit and cannot be trusted to speak clear truth, how will we trust the safety of the new vaccine that they recommend?
The ER doc you quoted said this… and I think it needs more light on it;
I would particularly like anyone who is currently involved in clinical research to comment on the decision to terminate the study early due to the early finding of shorter hospitalizations. Especially in light of a concurrent study published that found no benefit.
For those who don't know, the Remdesivir study was actually stopped early by the board reviewing it. These reviews are in place to make sure that when studies start showing fantanstic results early on, they can be stopped on an ethical basis in order to give all the participants this super beneficial treatment. Makes sense right? In the case of this study, it seems like an overdramatic cherry they put on top to help boost the headlines...
It is just a theory, but since some ommon SSRIs also cause QT issues my guess is TPTB don’t want the transparency. How many people taking Lexapro would stop if they were lumped in with the cardiac patients being blocked from a treatment for Coivd 19?
There is a fear among more than a few (and it is irrelevant whether it is rational or not, it is a fear) that jack-booted thugs will break down your door, shoot your dog(s), put you and your spouse in FEMA camps and take your children to God only knows where and do God only knows what with them.
When this kind of panic and fear infect people, other people get shot. Just sayin’, this might work in many countries, but I don’t think the whole contact tracing thing would go over well here. Too many are already sitting on a powderkeg, getting ready to light things up. A short stroll through YouTube and Facebook will tell you that without having to even search.
There are more videos in the YouTube cesspool all the time talking about gonna boogaloo. The atmosphere is getting stormy in many parts of the country. Remember, it would only take a few unfortunate incidents to go viral…
So it looks to me like we’re barreling toward a confrontation between demands by the Cloud People that everyone take the new vaccine (or the govt-approved standard of care which benefits the corporations more than any other) and the individual’s right to choose what is done to or in his/her body. It looks inevitable to me that people will be required to accept the vaccine as a condition of employment, before flying on a commercial flight, before entering certain kinds of buildings (govt buildings, restaurants, hospitals, etc.), before enlisting in the military, police or fire departments, etc. I, for one, won’t be taking any insufficiently tested vaccine or post-infection treatment that I am not convinced will work for me. I also won’t be submitting to required govt testing in which my results and DNA are reported to the .gov. Those are my lines in the sand.
On the other hand, to this date there are no effective vaccines for HIV or any of the SARS family of illnesses. So maybe we never will get a Woohoo Flu vaccine at all so the issue may never arise.
I’m also noticing that those who are most enthusiastic about forcing a future vaccine on people or mandating a specific course of treatment to the legal exclusion of others have never heard of the principle of “privacy” read into the US Constitution and the inviolable “My body, my choice” value that protects a woman’s right to abortion under all circumstances. If US society has really enshrined “my body, my choice” for abortion shouldn’t that also apply to vaccines and the treatments we can choose for Woohoo Flu? That promises to be an interesting dilemma for the Gates and Faucis of the world to harmonize for us. ?
Way back in January, well before discovering PP, I became glued to the images I was seeing coming out of China. People being dragged and pulled from their apartments and loaded onto trucks. The mass resistance to being led away to “hospitals”. At the time I couldn’t really understand why they fought so hard. Didn’t they want to be helped? Wasn’t it the reasonable thing to do? I consoled myself that this sort of thing would never happen here in the US. But then the Virus came, and we were told not to worry. Why, there was no evidence of person to person transmission and of course masks only worked for medical workers and could even make matters worse. No reason to stop planeloads of infected people coming to our shores. The WHO said so. That was when I began to undergo a massive shift in my understanding of TPTB. They were no longer the benign, well-intentioned entities I had trusted and defended for years. I realize now that THEY DON’T CARE ABOUT US. The HCQ debacle proves this. So, I’m no longer convinced that contact tracing can be effective at this stage and that it won’t be tool in the hands of evil men.
Remember that this whole Covid episode started as a “Live Exercise” they said as much publicly (Trump’s response was something like “Thanks for telling me” ) and the craziness, has been ongoing ever since. Of course they will continue on until they get enough resistance or evil people start being exposed publicly. With every passing day WE are losing ground - don’t kid yourselves. The more confusion and theater they can create the better for them. Why are we contact tracing now - it’s past the point of being an effective tool. There is a completely different agenda being rolled out. What might that be? Good question! https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/22/842119284/washington-state-builds-coronavirus-contact-tracing-fire-brigade
I have been saying this for over 50 years. I will continue to say it until my dying day .
Repeat after me " THE GOVERNMENT IS NOT YOUR FRIEND"
Rinse and repeat as many times as necessary.
My question might be off-topic for this thread. But, I noticed this from the anonymous ER doctor:
This will result in the anti-vaccine movement leaping forward and will set back well proven well tested vaccines by 50 years.
Jim H, Sand Puppy: I've been reading at RFK Jr's website and I'm not sure which vaccines are well proven, well tested and safe, if any. Could you briefly comment on this, or perhaps point me to an older thread here at the site where this has been discussed? Does Mikovits' theory about viruses and toxic chemicals in vaccines have any merit?
EDIT: Found it! Here's an old thread: https://peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/vaccines/
I post this as an indication of where we are as a Republic, not as political commentary. The scope of an unlimited surveillance state coupled with rogue governmental agencies.
Quantitative COVID-19 infectiousness estimate correlating with viral shedding and culturability suggests 68% pre-symptomatic transmissions
In this work, we attempt to provide a better quantitative estimate for the temporal infectiousness profile using serial interval data from a combined 1251 individuals reported in the literature. We show that the infectiousness profile which we calculate correlates well with the viral shedding kinetics from nasopharyngeal swabs (r=0.97, p=0.00) and culturability (r=0.83, p=0.01). The profile suggests that a 68.4% (95% CI: 67.0-69.7%) of the infections are caused by infections before the symptoms appear, which is a much stronger pre-symptomatic influence than what was predicted in the literature 44% (95% CI: 25-69%) using serial data from 77 individuals.
I completely agree with Dr. Martenson that wearing masks decreases viral transmission and thereby flattens the curve. What I am unclear about is the end game strategy, as the area under the curve remains the same and the ultimate threat the virus poses will not ever really go away until (or if) herd immunity is reached.
Are we going to wait for a vaccine before mingling with others without a mask? Do we really know if a safe, effective vaccine will ever be created? Will Big Pharma develop a 100% effective miracle cure? How long can we self-isolate, social distance, wear masks, etc. before the economic fallout of these measures results in secondary problems (including social unrest, hunger, crime, depression, etc.) that render the “cure” worse than the “disease.”
I do not propose to have all the answers or know all about the pathogenicity of this virus and how it will affect humanity in the short, intermediate and long term. I do not think anyone does. Think back about how wrong “the experts” have been at every turn from understanding the origin of the virus, to models of infectivity and lethality, to ventilators, etc. Every week brings a new twist, such as the Kawasaki-like vascular inflammation now being seen in children.
I will continue to self-isolate with my wife and children and we will wear masks when out in the general public performing essential tasks like shopping for food. We also have a garden. But, really, are these measures going to inoculate us from risk going forward?
The following discussion is a logical follow up on the characteristics of Coronavirus (COVID-19) as presented in the discussions on the Peak Performance site:
Coronavirus attacks the lungs as well as the heart, liver and kidneys and other organs of the body. It is very efficient at binding to the ACE2 sites of lung tissue cells.
Coronavirus has been inserted with a PRRA furin cleavage site that increases the ability to penetrate the host cell membrane by orders of magnitude. So far there is no suitable explanation of how this insertion could occur through natural means.
Coronavirus also has a function that binds with CD147 receptors on Tcells and macrophages of the immune system, breaks them open, and results in very dangerous cytochrome storms
Coronavirus causes blood clotting and microclotting.
Looking at all the functions it has, and the rapidity with which it has invaded the world, and the gain of function research that was conducted in Wuhan, the simplest and therefor most likely explanation for its origin is that it was designed and created by humans. Could you even design a more effective killer? And now as a result we have what could be considered an ultimate biological weapon unleashed on the world.
There are probably effective antidotes. Hydroxychloroquine (HQC) in combination with zinc has been credited with saving hundreds of lives in various countries around the world. Unfortunately it has frequently been used as a late stage treatment when it may not be effective in preventing cytochrome storms. HQC is primarily effective in the early stages of the disease because it works as an antiviral that suppresses the viral count from the beginning and gives the immune system time to react.
In the United States the policy of federal and state government agencies and medical associations is to prohibit administration of HCQ until the disease is in later stages. They certainly must be aware of how antivirals work. They are acting as if to intentionally handicap its performance.
So we have to ask ourselves. Is this a new stage in human history? Is a government for some reason now willing to promote the death of its own people indiscriminately?
Good question, James. Until we know more about the virus, it’s impossible to say that the “everyone wears a mask” strategy (and other NPIs) can be sustained in a society we want to live in. In the short term, there is no doubt it’s the best approach. But what if the vaccine doesn’t arrive or is not completely effective?
Of course the simple actions of sharing a meal or a few drinks, means masks can’t always be worn in situations where other people are around. And the constant decontamination of surfaces that might be touched by multiple people is impractical.
The only ways to avoid the question is to actually have a (almost) completely effective vaccine, elimination of the virus or hope for a less severe mutation that is more infectious. Most people seem to think this will eventually (but not too long) go away with no long term impacts beyond viruses like the flu.
But no-one knows what the future holds.
I used to think “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.”.
However, after watching in real time the criminal incompetence occurring in New York with the Governor’s order (recently reversed) to force nursing homes to take in sick patients and bar them from testing them for Covid-19, I am willing to believe anything is possible with sociopathic c.y.a. politicians.
Coumo’s administration refused to listen to the nursing home administrators who told them they had no provision for such patients, and refused to look at the data that was already available from Kirkland Washington and other places. I consider them criminally negligent, if not reckless. I don’t know the law but I would like to see a class action lawsuit and a big investigation of those deaths.