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341

I get really tired of the "scratch our noses around our elbows" conspiracy theories being constantly pounded.
So let me answer your question, T2H.

"Does anyone seriously believe that these three steel framed buildings collapsed to dust near or at free-fall speed, due to office fires and jet fuel?"

Except for the fact that they were steel-and-concrete, and they collapsed to dust-and-wreckage, YES, I do.  And I am NOT a Professional Engineer, but I do have a BS in engineering, and have used those engineering skills for a long time now.

I do bridges, not buildings (except for the piles which are common to both).  But the principles are the same.  And they are Steel and Concrete bridges, just like the buildings.

You should have seen the video of when we had to demolish one of our girders.  It would have looked like a conspiracy, because as they crunched it in the middle, the thing stood strong, until they got the drape strand.  All of a sudden, the whole thing – 180' of it – developed vertical cracks, every 20', nowhere near the site of the demolition.

If you knew what was going on inside the girder, it wouldn't have surprised.  But the point is… things don't always follow a layman's reasoned theories of what should happen.

 

 

 

342

Michael, I don't understand how 3 building did not collapse lopsided. Obviously as you said sometimes that just happens, but how did three buildings at the same time not fall lopsided? That's the only logical conspiracy that I have found.
It's an interesting situation, but I don't believe any government  is to be more at blame than the US. That's all I have been trying to argue here.

343

You do understand that "steel framed buildings" and "steel-and-concrete" buildings are not mutually exclusive, yes?

Here's what some Professional Engineers have to say about 9/11.

So, either you can not see it for what it is due to a mental block of some sort, you are a poor engineer or you are a liar. Maybe some combination.

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The Rothschilds * Political Zionism * The Federal Reserve * The US Dollar  Ashkenazi  State of Israel

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https://xkcd.com/386/

 

346

Amen to that.

347

From ZH (the complete article at ZH includes a couple of video clips as well): http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-21/us-congresswoman-introduces-bill-stop-illegal-war-assad-says-cia-ops-must-stop . 

Last month, US Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard went on CNN and laid bare Washington’s Syria strategy. 

In a remarkably candid interview with Wolf Blitzer, Gabbard calls Washington’s effort to oust Assad “counterproductive” and “illegal” before taking it a step further and accusing the CIA of arming the very same terrorists who The White House insists are "sworn enemies.” 

In short, Gabbard all but tells the American public that the government is lying to them and may end up inadvertently starting “World War III.”

…

That was before Paris.

Well, in the wake of the attacks, Gabbard has apparently had just about enough of Washington vacilating in the fight against terror just so the US can ensure that ISIS continues to destabilize Assad and now, with bi-partisan support, the brazen Hawaii Democrat has introduced legislation to end the "illegal war" to overthrow Assad. 

Gabbard, who fought in Iraq - twice - has partnered with Republican Adam Scott on the bill. Here's AP: 

In an unusual alliance, a House Democrat and Republican have teamed up to urge the Obama administration to stop trying to overthrow Syrian President Bashar Assad and focus all its efforts on destroying Islamic State militants.

Reps. Tulsi Gabbard, a Democrat, and Austin Scott, a Republican, introduced legislation on Friday to end what they called an "illegal war" to overthrow Assad, the leader of Syria accused of killing tens of thousands of Syrian citizens in a more than four-year-old civil war entangled in a battle against IS extremists, also known as ISIS.

"The U.S. is waging two wars in Syria," Gabbard said. "The first is the war against ISIS and other Islamic extremists, which Congress authorized after the terrorist attack on 9/11. The second war is the illegal war to overthrow the Syrian government of Assad."

Scott said, "Working to remove Assad at this stage is counter-productive to what I believe our primary mission should be."

Since 2013, the CIA has trained an estimated 10,000 fighters, although the number still fighting with so-called moderate forces is unclear. CIA-backed rebels in Syria, who had begun to put serious pressure on Assad's forces, are now under Russian bombardment with little prospect of rescue by their American patrons, U.S. officials say.

For years, the CIA effort had foundered — so much so that over the summer, some in Congress proposed cutting its budget. Some CIA-supported rebels had been captured; others had defected to extremist groups.

Gabbard complained that Congress has never authorized the CIA effort, though covert programs do not require congressional approval, and the program has been briefed to the intelligence committees as required by law, according to congressional aides who are not authorized to be quoted discussing the matter.

Gabbard contends the effort to overthrow Assad is counter-productive because it is helping IS topple the Syrian leader and take control of all of Syria. If IS were able to seize the Syrian military's weaponry, infrastructure and hardware, the group would become even more dangerous than it is now and exacerbate the refugee crisis.

And make no mistake, Tulsi's understanding of Washington's absurd Mid-East policy goes far beyond Syria. That is, Gabbard fully grasps the big picture as well. Here's what she has to say about the idea that the US should everywhere and always attempt to overthrow regimes when human rights groups claim there's evidence of oppression:
"People said the very same thing about Saddam (Hussein), the very same thing about (Moammar) Gadhafi, the results of those two failed efforts of regime change and the following nation-building have been absolute, not only have they been failures, but they've actually worked to strengthen our enemy."
...So there's hope for the US public after all.
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When you use a distraction it is for a reason ? Isis is loosing on the battle field in Iraq. 

349

Israel will forever be the bad guy for you eh? You have to blame somebody right?
You have been completely sold by the agenda-driven anti-semitic lie machine… You are a sponge.

350

 

I get really tired of the "Insert head in ass" conformity theories

Engineering can by it's complexity lend itself to obfuscation.

While there are reams of evidence supporting controlled demolition including first responder eyewitness' reports describing the explosions ,video evidence of pyroclastic flows, sequential squib charges visible in building seven collapse etc etc.

The most basic proof  is a matter of simple physics, the free fall speed of collapse can't be explained without removing the supporting 'friction' of the vertical columns instantaneously.  This is accomplished by blowing them up with some variety of Thermite (probably thermate) SOP for controlled demolition.  The official explanation of a pancake collapse is demonstrably ludicrous It cannot explain the near free fall speed of the collapse.  Unless, the evildoers, managed to suspend the laws of physics.

The publicly avail evidence of molten steel days after the collapse is physical evidence of the effects of some form of thermite.   Av Gas, diesel,  office furniture etc. cannot burn hot enough to render steel into molten globs of iron. It is simply  not physically possible.  Thermite does exactly that.

It is understandable that the  implications that flow from these basic facts are hard to accept and believe. but if you can get past the monstrosity of it and begin to look at the entirety of the evidence and circumstances it becomes overwhelmingly clear that 9'11 was a giant psy op and the official narrative is bullshit.

 

mememonkey

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YaFGSPErKU

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Carbon Blob * darbikrash * HughK  Markreis  Michael_Rudmin * Wildlife Tracker * Windlord

353

Are we Jewish?

http://www.rense.com/general87/14_1.htm

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I have no idea.
But he is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etXAm-OylQQ

And I believe him.

355

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc7dmaQw-8s

356

Take a look at ourselves.
Fighting like amoeba on a petri dish. 

I mean, just stop it. We have much bigger Fish to fry. We have got 35 years to find land for the next 9 billion people. 

And we are not going to find it in the petri dish. 

Somebody has got to find the reset button

357

Mememonkey:
I have a quick set of questions:  How does a welder's torch work?  Why does it work?  What does a welder's torch do?  What fuel does a welder's torch use?  Now answer the same question for a bellows, and for a civil war era steel smelting furnace.

In the case of a bellows, it isn't the fuel that makes the temperature, nearly as much as it is the macroscopic structure, and the application of air. 

Now look at that building again.  Now look at this neat ranger wood gas camp stove, and the russian 24-brick design.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VX1CgxlpLM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdR6WXggiKQ

Do you see the rocket-stove design of a 1-skyscraper-plus-JPL ? 

I remain yet unconvinced that JPL cannot melt steel at the required temperatures.  Add air, and you have the makings of a very effective torch.

 

 

358

So by conflating Zionism with Judaism criticism of Israel now becomes anti-semitism?
That seems to be the hasbara trope you are applying.
There is much about what Arthur and T2H have to say with which I don’t agree but the playing of the anti-semitism card when Israel is criticized, rightly or wrongly, is getting very old.
I would be a bit careful of projecting “agenda-driven” motives on others when the skirt of your passionate attachment to a foreign country that George Washington warned us about is showing.

359

Ba.Sl.,
Your video makes an excellent case that the NIST people were charged with "putting this to bed as quickly as possible", and thus were willfully blind.  It was all a publicity trial.  But it does not make any kind of case that explosives were used. 

I've already (a few posts above this one) made the case that JPL can melt the steel with a Catherine furnace structure around it (that is, a gasifying stove).  I've made the case that the building would make such a structure. 

Now I'm going to make the case that it couldn't have been explosives. 

Explosive forming is used because of its advantages over such forming methods as casting and welding.  One of the main advantages is that high temperatures are not reached, so the steel remains strong and is not weakened.  In line with that, if there were thermite charges that brought the building down, they would have to have detonated, not conflagrated.  Therefore, they would not have significantly raised the temperature of the steel.  The very fact that steel melted – and it is clear that the temperatures were sufficient to do so – tells me that it wasn't explosives that melted the steel.  It was conflagration.

I am not against the idea that our government may have been involved in this.  I certainly believe that the nature of our government to conspire showed itself in their automatic reactions to cover, not to show, the truth. 

But I do not see the case made that explosives dropped the building.  I see, rather, evidence that the buildings were dropped according to Occam's Razor:  that the simplest explanation is the best, and the simplest explanation was that the jet fuel fire caused the building to fall.

P.S.:  I am not surprised that the fires were still burning 8 weeks later.  It's not so much that they were burning still, but simply slowly burning much as the tire fire in Pennsylvania, and then reigniting more violently when they were dug up.  Concrete has a lot of water in it, and has a large thermal mass.  Again, the descriptions of the people at the job site seem accurate:  there was molten metal, there were fires 8 weeks later, there was a mix of concrete dust and steel.  Oh, and steel-toed-boots had a very short time of utility.

360

Could do some nice spuds in that.