Yeah, they might have to take time to try to figure out who it is. But if the southern snipers thought they might have to deal with the kind of problem you need snipers to solve, then Trump should have been off the stage.
That is so true, but did the command center actually gave that order? And if so, when?
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I know diddly squat about how they normally do things and how it should have been done. But I suspect that it actually happened in the other direction, i.e., the snipers thought they had a threat, decided amongst themselves that the southern snipers would turn to be able to deal with it, and they of course communicated that to command.
If everything was on the up and up, we would have had the radio logs or transcripts or whatever weeks ago. My thinking is that anything other than radical transparency should be taken as a confession of guilt.
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I suspected the “van” and explosives guaranteed FBi jurisdiction.
afterthought???
Regards
K
Comm disruption is being saved for election. It would be noticeable at Rally.
You are probably right about comms.
good point.
k
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I don’t think he was walking around carrying a rifle. That’s either a shadow or photoshopped. I live in PA, and yes we’re an open-carry state, but I’ve never seen a single person (in my life) walking around carrying a long gun let alone an AR. You wouldn’t get very far without being stopped and questioned by LE. Open carry is a holstered sidearm.
As for the cell coverage, I’ve been to AGR and the Farm Show property three times, and each time I had no issues with cell signal anywhere on or around either property.
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If that pic is pulled from this video, then it doesn’t show the rifle in the video.
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I recommend to take at least notice of the hypothesis of the Swiss physicist Hans-Benjamin Braun here.
Albeit there were probably related forces at work wrt NorthStream, a discussion of that affair should rather not be mixed into this thread.
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Taking one frame from a video that has a shadow that may appear to some as a rifle to support your theory is deceitful. Taking snapshots of multiple frames showing the same alleged rifle would be needed to support your theory. I challenge you to do that. In the video the subject is seen swinging his right arm as he walks, and there is no rifle, so I already know you won’t be able to meet that challenge.
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If cell service was down, how were BC-ESU sending texts and pics around?
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Lenz, the chief of Butler County knew and heard 60-90 seconds that he was on the roof running and he sent a message to local that “we don’t have assets on that roof.” Unfortunately, apparently, he did not think to tell the SS command center even though he had been communicating with SS prior to this. Really really unforgiveable
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elmanchur,
all this sounds like perfectly timed negligence, although Lenz might not been part of that game. By what means he sent a “message” to local that “we don’t have assets on that roof” ? Radio?
When I saw him in the D Stewart video, two things struck me as odd immediately:
(1) He was talking on phone while clearing windows with a gun
(2) He knew Greg Nicol and chatted with him at the southeastern corner of AGR 6.
Why I thought (1) was off was the opposite of your thought, Chris. I thought not that the phone call was so important, but that clearing the windows was “performative” - that he could not really be worried about them, perhaps acting for cameras and bystanders.
That they meet immediately after with GN, who clearly is not worried about further shots (gun down then holstered, exposed to roof) while other LEOs in background are, further suggests they are part of a team and may have a common understanding that no further risk of a shot exists.
As you point out, there is no excuse for Capri pants and green camo shorts to have been on the West side and not have screamed to 2nd floor snipers about Crooks on the roof with a rifle, when bystanders there already had been for 50+ seconds.
Looking at your close-ups, his shaggy face contrasts with his apparently brand new Capri pants, which have no wrinkles. It’s almost as if he bought them for that event. The shirt also looks new (a very thin fabric that would wear out fast but has not worn out). He also seems to be wearing AirPods to communicate discretely.
After the shots, why did these two move to the East side of AGR 6, if not about the windows? They were the only ones to do so from the West side, other than D Stewart earlier. And they moved quickly immediately after the shots. At the corner of AGR 6, they seem keen to watch what LEOs are doing. But as soon as GN jogs toward them relaxed, they recognize GN and chat with him - some sort of a team?
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I don’t know if you read my post above closely (503), but if FirstNet was in a role of a “federal agency to ensure that local responders and federal responders had coordinated communications”, they had the power and the means to manipulate all sort of communications, allowing this one, and delaying, altering or even blocking the other one, with Geofencing certainly included. Much like any man in the middle can do.
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Have you also been there on July 13th?
edit: sorry, question was meant for Rough_Country_Gypsy
Radio
No. I had secured two tickets and planned on attending, but it was blistering hot that day so I opted out.
Ed Lenz is quoted dropping some gems in this TribLive.com article, further discrediting SS.
(1) “According to Adams Township Sgt. Ed Lenz, who serves as commander of the Butler County ESU, four snipers met with the Secret Service’s countersniper team leader to confirm their locations — which were discussed that morning among ESU members — around 1:54 p.m.”
“Expectations of local law enforcement were communicated clearly leading up to the rally by the Secret Service’s countersniper and counterassault team leaders and at an informational meeting the week before the rally.”
→ So it was SS who defined and then confirmed local ESU locations. It was not that there was some miscommunication, and maybe ESUs were supposed to be on the roofs of AGR.
(2) “Lenz said there were two command posts: the Secret Service’s command post included state police. Butler County ESU’s command was stationed at the county post with Butler County Sheriff’s deputies.”
“Lenz said he had a portable radio for the state police, who would relay messages to the Secret Service.”
→ This discredits Ron Rowe’s claim that lack of unified command was the culprit for SS not to know what was going on in a timely manner. State PA embed got immediate radio messages and was inside SS command, able to relay fast. It’s possible that the PA state police embed, or SS command itself, was sabotaging the passing of information to SS snipers.
(3) “Time stamps from text messages released by Grassley show that at 5:38 p.m., a Beaver County sniper sent photos of Crooks to the Beaver, Butler and Washington snipers group chat. The photos were forwarded to state police, Lenz said. Shortly after, at 5:48 p.m., Lenz said a sniper team leader forwarded the photos to a Secret Service countersniper.”
→ So both PA State (the embed presumably) and SS sniper team leader got the picture.
(4) “Nobody sees him again till he’s already on the building,” Lenz said. “At 6:08 p.m., Butler Township spots him on the roof for the first time.”
“Looking at some videos, you can see the (Secret Service) countersnipers got the information,” he said. “They reposition. They change their focus toward that AGR building. Countersnipers can’t take action just for a suspicious person.”
→ Lenz’s testimony suggests that when SS countersnipers turned from facing southward to northward, just after 6:10:00, Crooks had become a threat rather than remained a mere suspect. This implies that SS failed to take out Crooks in time although he was a known threat to them. Did they not see him behind the sloped roof, or did they LIHOP?
(5) "At 6:11 p.m., Lenz said radio transmission indicated Crooks was armed and lying down on the roof.
“I had a bunch of different radios,” Lenz said.
“As soon as they confirm that he’s armed, (Crooks) changed from a suspicious person to an actual threat,” he said.
“I begin to deploy the quick response force,” he said. “They’re contacted on the radio, they answer. I start giving orders to deploy to the AGR roof.”"
→ So Lenz put out over several radios that boosted cop had seen Crooks with a rifle. He surely relayed this to the PA State police embed, who was in SS command. Southern SS snipers for a minute already were focused toward AGR, though they were not told by SS command that Crooks was on the roof of AGR 6 specifically.
All this paints Lenz as a fast communicator to SS, and SS as fully responsible for the failures to stick ESUs behind windows, cover AGR roofs, pass on local comms with full detail.
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No. Simply there were too many cell phones at the area.
By the way, how many cell phones are in a football stadium or similarly popular sport event?
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Well, this gem. Following the link to the related post here:
They literally could not talk to each other that day. It was COMPLETELY SILOED - not just partially siloed with the command post serving as a way to make it interoperable and share communications.
@ SenRonJohnson and his team of staffers were the first to bring up the siloing of communications in his initial report released publicly on 7/21.
It appears as if unified command centers at rallies and events --(made up of Secret Service supervisors and their local law enforcement counterparts) before Butler were limited to National Special Security Events ONLY.
Those events are major federal govt or public events considered to be nationally significant and designated by the president and/or the Dept. of Homeland Security Secretary – in this case Mayorkas. They, therefore, did not include rallies and campaign events for Trump.
With this Alejandro Mayorkas also sitting on the FirstNet Board.
edit: appears as if… As far as I remember, until recently the official line was “communication was not working”.
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