Occupy Wall Street: What’s Really Going On

News & Current Events Public News & Current Events
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…about who’s co-opted (or may eventually be) and criticism of OWS for various reasons (and a parallel series of posts comparing and contrasting the Tea Party on the same subjects) and while of course we must debate and converse in order to better understand other peoples’ points of view (and surely to better understand our own – in my experience one of the greatest values of community is the opportunity to better understand our own selves), in my opinion:
What is relevant/interesting/exciting about OWS (and the TP) is the sense that among the general populace (often derisively referred to as "The Sheeple") there is a stirring of consciousness.  Many words (and precious time & energy) get expended in derogation of the so-called lumpen masses but the fact remains that no substantive positive change to our predicament is going to occur unless and until the vast majority of people wake up and act.

The famous "red pill" scene from "The Matrix" (emphasis mine):

To make it more directly relevant to my point, I would re-write it something like this:

It seems to me that although OWS/99/(original) TP are all over the map politically, have no clear-cut prescriptions for the needed changes, and may well end up co-opted by the status quo, the thing to focus on is the restlessness of the population at large – and their willingness to translate that into action (no matter how scattershot and without getting caught up in equating effectiveness with importance).

Effectiveness may come in time, which could lead to progress.  In the meantime, I’m psyched to see so many sleepers awaken!  RED PILLS ALL 'ROUND, BARKEEP!  (And then a three-finger shot of "The Crash Course", neat.  Seriously, if you have OWSers in your life, by all means get them watching the CC!)

Thanks for reading.

VIVA! – Sager

82

[quote=plato1965]Streets that follow like a tedious argumentOf insidious intent
To lead you to an overwhelming question . . .
Oh, do not ask, "What is it?"
Let us go and make our visit.
[/quote]
 
How is TS Eliot relevant to OWS or Heisenberg, could you explain?
Lord Byron, from Canto II:
Oh! my own beauteous land! so long laid low,
So long the grave of thy own children’s hopes,
When there is but required a single blow
To break the chain, yet – yet the Avenger stops,
And Doubt and Discord step ‘twixt thine and thee,
And join their strength to that which thee copes;
What is there wanting then to set thee free,
And show thy beauty in its fullest light?
To make the Alps impassable; and we,
Her sons, may do this with one deed – Unite!

83

I agree with Rector, except he doesn’t place enough blame on the American voter. I’m almost 69 years old and ever since I became politically aware I’ve heard the old refrain "He may be a crook but he’s OUR crook". With that attitude is it any wonder that our political, judicial, and financial systems are corrupt. Ron Paul is one of the very few national politicians with any integrity and the majority of the American public thinks he’s a kook because all they know how to do is listen to and believe the mainstream media. The majority of the voting pubic is getting exacty what they’ve voted for. The rest of us get to suffer along with the majority of the voting public. Also, this country wasn’t established as a democracy, it was a Republic.

84

Perfect +1 … dons

85

I’m getting concerned that I have noticed a clearly defined move to the left in your columns and associations of late. Althought you maintain that your desire is for this to be non political view I’m sensing that that may not be entirely true. I will observe for a few more weeks before making any hasty decisions but I can clearly see a bias and dare I say an agenda/

86

Troman,
Welcome!
I know you are talking to Chris, not me, however, I’ve been here for over 3 years now and I personally have beliefs that lean to the left and other beliefs that lean to the right.  I read almost everything here almost every day.  I do NOT share your perception of "move to the left".  Hang in for a while and you will read or hear something that leans conservative.  It shouldn’t take long.
Hugs … dons

87

I see the ideological purity police are out.  C’mon people.  Just because a particular position or viewpoint falls slightly one direction or another from the dividing line between left and right does not mean that you’ve sold out to one of the extremes.  It probably means that you’ve thought about the issue and for perfectly rational reasons have decided that it is the right course to follow.
As I alluded to in an earlier post, the left-right paradigm should be tossed on the trash heap of history.  The OWS people seem to be beginning to understand that and are taking baby steps in that direction.  They are becoming more concerned with the up-down paradigm, and we at CM should be thinking about how that fits into the EEE paradigm.  There are plenty of objective facts out there pointing to the dissolution of our era that have nothing to do with ideology.  Peak oil is not ideological, climate change is not (or at least should not be) ideological, resource limitations are not ideological, environmental responsibility is not ideological, fraud on Wall St. is not ideological, the revolving door between the corporatocracy and our supposedly representative democracy is not ideological and the economy is not ideological.  So, take off the ideological blinders and look at these issues as the reality we live with and think about how to address them without falling back on the rhetoric or touchstones of the past.

Doug

88

Global anger

The protest was one of many staged around the world on Saturday to show solidarity with the Occupy Wall Street movement in the United States, venting anger over years of economic and financial crisis since a global credit boom went bust in 2007.

In London, 1,000 people marched on the Stock Exchange, calling on the government to introduce a new tax on the banks and a one off 20 per cent levy on the wealthiest people in society.

Instead the coalition government is committed to pushing ahead with a range of strict austerity measures.

In Australia, hundreds of people turned out to protests in city centres, saying there are fundamental problems with Australia’s democracy.

In Sydney, about 500 people set up camp in Martin Place to protest against corruption and corporate greed.

They held up banners reading "you can’t eat money" and "we are the 99 per cent".

Mark Goudkamp, a Sydney organiser, told the Martin Place rally: "The planet can’t continue to go on with this unsustainable level of inequality."

"There needs to be a fundamental overhaul of how our economy works; we need to challenge those who are the most powerful who control the global economy and have an enormous influence on elected politicians," he said.

In Melbourne, some demonstrators also said they planed to camp out for days, and maybe weeks.

Melbourne organiser Nick Carson says Australia may have escaped the global financial crisis, but there are still serious issues affecting this nation.

"I think people want real democracy," he said.

"We’re not seeing unemployment [like] in Spain [where] tens of millions are unemployed.

"But what we are seeing is a lack of accountability, an unfair influence of giant mining companies, business councils and lobby groups, which represent 1 per cent of most wealthy Australians, while the other 99 per cent go relatively unrepresented."

Several hundred people marched up the main street in Auckland, New Zealand’s biggest city, joining a rally in the city square where about 3,000 chanted and banged drums, denouncing corporate greed.

About 200 gathered in the capital Wellington and 50 in a park in the earthquake-hit southern city of Christchurch.

Similar gatherings were seen across the Asia Pacific region, including in New Zealand, Taiwan, Japan and the Philippines.

Concrete demands of the movement are few, other than a general sense that the "greedy and corrupt" rich, and especially banks, should pay more and that elected governments are not listening.

Reuters/ABC

89

[quote=troman]I’m getting concerned that I have noticed a clearly defined move to the left in your columns and associations of late. Althought you maintain that your desire is for this to be non political view I’m sensing that that may not be entirely true. I will observe for a few more weeks before making any hasty decisions but I can clearly see a bias and dare I say an agenda/
[/quote]
"Left and Right" is a concept that has reached its use by date.  We need to invent a new ism that can sustain us without depleting resources or natural support systems before we wipe ourselves off the planet.
Got any ideas?  That’s what we do here best… share ideas.
Mike

90
TESTIFY, BROTHER!!!
91

From Tumblr:

"I was deployed to Iraq 4x
5 of my friends are dead
1 of my friends is missing his arm
1 of my friends killed himself
I’ve been blown up 2x by roadside bombs
Hearing fireworks makes me nervous
I can’t sleep at night
All so bankers and war profiteers could get richer
I am the 99%
http://www.occupywallst.org/"

http://wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/post/10685306145

Notice the flag patch is upside down. Distress or disrespect? I think it’s the former.

Poet

92

You are correct.  It’s Distress.  I remember that from my Boy Scout days … uh … just a few days ago ;-).  … dons

93

http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_19120992?source=commented-news

I was going to copy the article with pics here, but I read the "terms of use" and they do not allow it.  So, if you want to see the article, you must click on the link and read it on the Denver Post site.  ... dons
94

[quote=Doug]I see the ideological purity police are out.  C’mon people.  Just because a particular position or viewpoint falls slightly one direction or another from the dividing line between left and right does not mean that you’ve sold out to one of the extremes.  It probably means that you’ve thought about the issue and for perfectly rational reasons have decided that it is the right course to follow.
As I alluded to in an earlier post, the left-right paradigm should be tossed on the trash heap of history.  The OWS people seem to be beginning to understand that and are taking baby steps in that direction.  They are becoming more concerned with the up-down paradigm, and we at CM should be thinking about how that fits into the EEE paradigm.  There are plenty of objective facts out there pointing to the dissolution of our era that have nothing to do with ideology.  Peak oil is not ideological, climate change is not (or at least should not be) ideological, resource limitations are not ideological, environmental responsibility is not ideological, fraud on Wall St. is not ideological, the revolving door between the corporatocracy and our supposedly representative democracy is not ideological and the economy is not ideological.  So, take off the ideological blinders and look at these issues as the reality we live with and think about how to address them without falling back on the rhetoric or touchstones of the past.
Doug
[/quote]
Very well stated, Doug!

95

[quote=SagerXX]It seems to me that although OWS/99/(original) TP are all over the map politically, have no clear-cut prescriptions for the needed changes, and may well end up co-opted by the status quo, the thing to focus on is the restlessness of the population at large – and their willingness to translate that into action (no matter how scattershot and without getting caught up in equating effectiveness with importance).
Effectiveness may come in time, which could lead to progress.  In the meantime, I’m psyched to see so many sleepers awaken!  RED PILLS ALL 'ROUND, BARKEEP!  (And then a three-finger shot of "The Crash Course", neat.  Seriously, if you have OWSers in your life, by all means get them watching the CC!)
[/quote]
Emphasis in first paragraph added by me; great observation, Sager! As I said, the OWS movement (and the Tea Party, for that matter), are fertile ground for the 3E message.

96

 As many have noted on these pages and elsewhere, we are on the brink of significant financial and physical security challenges.  Many  places in the world, particularly the "periphery" nations, are deeper into these stress conditions than the US.   In these peripheral places the anti-system protests have turned violent.  Take the "Occupy" Rome riots today. The organizations that are emerging behind these more violent manifestations are Socialist/Marxist. The core "organizers" in the US Occupy movement are clearly socialists.  Just ask who is printing the flyers. 
In the past these "revolutions" start out idealistically - and even enjoy broad sympathy.  The plebeian marchers are always well intended "useful idiots". But tthe planers are bent on destruction and revolution.  History shows they acquire power by violent means, then violently suppress descent.  Once the reins of power are firmly in their hands they will seek to permanently solidify their power through genocidal purges or in the case of Mao through famine and purge.   All in the name of expunging evil, selfish, capitalists, or stale outdated "traditions". 

Now lets toss in the pressures of exponential population growth, global warming, peak everything,  starvation,  water depletion,  hyper-deflation (or hyper-inflation), hyper indebtedness, religious fanaticism, and we can’t forget a few stray nukes, … and well the world becomes one very nasty place. Frankly, I simply can’t comprehend the potential insanity.   Unfortunately our children will live it - or not.

The minimum trauma answer is surely NOT greater centralization of power with a few "hyper-empowerd" individuals using their judgement to improve the "collective" condition.  In my view, socialism under these "transition" conditions will lead to massive destruction.

Power, money, and governance must be Decentralized.  The autonomous, free, individual must remain the central building block of a peaceful municipal civilization.

Respectfully,

concobb2

 

 

97

 Great points Concobb
As corrupted as our current system is, I am a little bit fearfull that this movement will turn into something we don’t want it to.  I hope our governement’s response is to acknowledge the validity of the protests, turn around and aggressively prosecute the bankers who engaged in criminal behavior, banish lobbyists, and introduce term limits.  We are much better off if we reform the system from within
i know that is wishfull thinking.  I fear we may be seeing a repeat of the French Revolution
 
Brian

98

[quote=troman]
I’m getting concerned that I have noticed a clearly defined move to the left in your columns and associations of late. Althought you maintain that your desire is for this to be non political view I’m sensing that that may not be entirely true. I will observe for a few more weeks before making any hasty decisions but I can clearly see a bias and dare I say an agenda/[/quote]
troman,
It’s not about left or right it’s about fairness. The right and tea party have an agenda of small government and individual responsibility which many people identify with. The occupy movement does not have a right or left agenda. It is all about democracy through participation, discussion and debate revolving around the issues of fairness that calls for government responsibility, corporate responsibility and individual responsibility.

99

 

"So, you can laugh at or disparage the demonstrators all you want. You can call them spoiled, silly or sophomoric. You can single out the fringe and think it’s representative of the whole. But that won’t change the fact that this demonstration has touched a nerve. A rag-tag group is standing up where the government, regulators, media and business elites have rolled-over and played dead. They are shining a light on the financial cancer at the heart of America." Jim Rickards, Occupy Wall Street
 
100

 My daughter tells me that the OWS in Washington D.C, are marching on the homes of medical doctors, saying they are the one percent.  Now, come on folks…She is reminding me of their heavy student loans and the long hours and the effort they have put in to what they have…Also the percent of their earnings that are already earmarked for taxes…
Nowhere on this blog have i seen a finger accusing the medics for the problems of the world…We didnt loan the trillions to them…

As I told her…the problems are very complex and very hard to tease apart.  Most people don’t have the curiosity or experience to trace them back to their roots.  So you get a lot of young folks who are angry at something or at one particular thing; they group together amd the anger grows…

 I sure hope we dont get some idiot to  jump in front of this group to direct it in a stupid direction.