[quote=Arthur Robey]Mycelia form a matt that extend over vast areas. The purpose of that matt is to gather nutrients. When enough nutrients are available, the matt gathers together to form the fruiting body that we call a mushroom.
We have spread across the planet gathering resources. When we have enough resources, all our Capital pools. To what purpose?
I put it to you that it is to leave and take the spores with us. Any mushroom could understand this.
And you thought you understood what was going on? Just who designed the Ape/Pig hybrid do you think-and to what purpose?
I think McKenna has insight into our real design and purpose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlMRiVGfONU
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Hi Arthur,
The mycelial mat gathers nutrients and forms life enhancing symbiotic relationships with plants in the process. It represents the very essence of the exchange that Kaimu has described.
Capitalism, as it is currently configured ignores the synergies of symbiosis. We've been trained to believe the competitive model is far superior to anything else out there. That may have been quite true for a good portion of history, but we are beyond that now.
We have to move away from Serengeti Social Darwinism, where the 'best' lion gets all the rewards and move beneath the Serengeti, observe the mycelial networks and how closely they resemble digital networks and do like they do…
After all, the mushrooms are conscious and likely smarter than we are— just very very different.
[quote=jdye51]I'm very disappointed in what seems to me to be an increasing emphasis on PP on making money. It seems so at odds with the message of the "Crash Course". I imagine it's hard basing a web site business model on informing people of the coming collapse of industrial society when it appears to keep on going and going. My perception is that the PP "community" is narrowing to reflect those interested in money and finance over other issues. I notice some people who used to post here are doing so less or not at all. Where have they gone and why? I post less frequently and when I do I know what I have to say isn't really that welcome because I talk about the dangers from Fukushima and especially Climate Change, including the possibility of Near Term Extinction. I think there's a lot of denial on the part of many PPers on how much they are already affecting the planet and how quickly changes are happening. So I find it hard to get too worked up about how to make more money or in fantasies of the future that don't match the reality I see around me.
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Joyce, I think we all agree with you, but here is the logic around money. Money is POWER and money is CHANGE.
One of my favorite inspirations is a man named John Wamsley. He once said
"Money is the means for getting things done, so I had to make money. I was a millionaire by the time I turned 23."John Wamsley revolutionized conservation in Australia and New Zealand. He helped save the platypus and several other small mammals in Australia through his private Warrawong Sanctuary. He took his fortunes and was passionate about doing good with it. We need people to start doing good with their money and start "getting things done." This however is NOT happening. Therefore I need to make money.
"Tracker is advised not to work in food preparation or farm as a tenant. Why not? If one makes money the sole criteria, then it makes sense to seek out something else. But we can all see that currencies are failing. Maybe it makes more sense to have a skill, like cooking or farming, that will really be needed when money becomes worthless. Office worker? - not so much."Because working as a sharecropper or tenant farmer doesn't distance himself from a economic collapse. By working min. wage someone else is going to profit from his efforts. when the economy goes south or the landowner chooses to bring in illegal workers, He will be left with nothing, and be exposed to whatever hardship unfolds.
"Do we really need another multinational company"
That all depends. We need more companies that make better use of the remaining resources, such as companies that make homes more energy efficient, or make tools or devices that can operate with less resources. We need more business that can make us less dependant on the system and gov't too.
"I'm very disappointed in what seems to me to be an increasing emphasis on PP on making money. It seems so at odds with the message of the "Crash Course"."
Capital provides the means to aquire resources needed to become self-reliant. One cannot provide food, shelter, and clothing without land and resources. Since late 1990's, when I became concerned about declining energy resources and excessive debt, I have been focused on saving as much capital so I to acquire land, tools and other resources to become self-reliant. Since that time I have not gone on an vacations, purchased any TVs or other entertainment devices. I've used my capital to purchase tools, equipment and books that will be used to become self-reliant. I also stated that he should use his free time to continue to learn agracultture and other skills needed to be self-reliant.
I think you are confusing the PP crowd with everyone else, the PP crowd is seeking money to become self-reliant. Some using to retro-fit their homes (better insulation, Solar panels, etc), other are using it to buy farm land to grow their own food. the Non-PP followers are interested spending money on McMansions, Luxary cars, big screen TV's, and flashy stuff.
If your not saving money and acquiring the resources you need to survive, when the credit/energy crunch fully unfolds what is your plan? Do you expect that the gov't will take care of you? Do you plan to head for the hills as a hunter-gatherer? What's your plan?
In this new economy, its difficult to find good paying jobs. I think it's good idea to promote alterative options so that People on PP can acquire the resources they need to become self-reliant. Money is not the root of evil. It is a means for people to exchange resources. I think you believe greed and money are synonyms, and they are not.
I do think the strategies by Techguy and Poet are the ones I should follow (50% in the current paradigm and 50% in the future). I currently make a bit more (30-50% more) than half the United States on an annual basis, but half the country is technically impoverished with 24k salaries.
It really isn't enough to get me where I want to be in the future and start making the change I want to see. It also doesn't make me happy.
I also teach a bit of wildlife tracking every blue moon on the side. Doesn't provide any real income, but it makes me happy.
- I believe it is knowledge and practical skills that are the currency ahead. So farming and food prep are more valuable for what is already here than anything found in an office environment. With food scarcity, people are going to want to know how to grow their own food and how to prepare it. Food scarcity is already here for many around the world and is coming to the US as well. California is in a major drought that could last 100 years. It is our breadbasket and grows much of the produce and nuts we eat. What's going to happen when it can no longer do that? As it is, some growers are already not going to plant this season due to a lack of water. History says long droughts have already happened there and with rising temps, the West is drying out. The Colorado river is overtaxed as it is and water is increasingly scarce. Fracking is compromising our aquifers and wells.2) It's too late for energy efficiency to make much of a difference. We've passed tipping points. We're not in charge - nature is.
- Ah - "The love of money is the root of all evil". It's quite seductive. No doubt there are many such as yourself who forego gadgets in order to be more resilient. Good for you. I am doing what I can as well.
J
No doubt the future is going to be apocalyptic Joyce. Most of us recognize that. We have a single-resource based relationship with oil and I know what that means from an ecological perspective. It's very unmotivating.I don't think it will be the walking dead though where everybody is equal. There will be rich, and poor, and there will be the dead.
Disease and starvation will kill most of us (if not nuclear radiation) and there will be cannibalism and horrific scenes that I want nothing to be apart of.
I just don't think there will be the day when everyone is financially equal.
Thanks for the link Rose. I've felt for a long time that this is a crazy place. We keep acting against our best interests and in an anti-life manner.Sadly, the wetiko virus appears to be winning.
All the best to you.
Joyce
Tracker I would say that the future is now. There are those who are already experiencing the effects of resource depletion - look at Egypt for example. We may be on the verge of a resource war with Russia over Ukraine. Russia is threatening to reject the dollar as the reserve currency and they hold a significant amount of our debt. They could very well follow through on that (along with China). If they do, the dollar is toast. Our currency will collapse as countries who have resented our reserve status work around us. It's already happening - see Iran.As our climate becomes more and more erratic, we are all affected - even the 1% aren't immune to planetary changes. With temperatures continually rising and no effort to stop it, there will be a point where the planet can no longer sustain human life - any human life. The scientists who are studying this say it can happen as soon as 2030. Until that happens, society will break down more and more and we will be left to our own devices. Money per se won't mean a thing. The ability to grow food and access clean water will be what is important.
But we all make our own decisions. And none of us gets out alive anyway.
I do wish you all the best whatever you decide.
Joyce
People will continue to trade because its beneficial. We all have different skills and experiences, tools, and resources that we will need to trade for the things we lack and therefore money whether its gold, silver, or paper will have a role. Barter sucks. Money was an invention that will stay with mankind till the end in my opinion.Anyways, where the heck are such thoughtful women like you in this world? You are a rare breed Joyce.
jdye51 has written often and consistently on the theme of what does all this matter if you aren't here to do it? and why are we talkng out of one side of our mouths on the blog while living the polluting lifestyle that is killing us.and why aren't we addressing the real problems by real change in our lives, not just token one.
i've been an entrepreneur ,own a homestead, been part of the problem , been part of the solution.
i've recently be diagnosed with stage 3 cancer. now i'm part of the consequence.
ferralhen
Joyce,you've made a number of assumptions and then projected them widely upon the entire PP community and I'd like to offer my (very) different views on the matter.
I 100% share your conviction that humans are rapidly destroying their one and only operating spaceship. Further, it's not just about humans, its about all of life and leaving enough for robust, resilient ecosystems that humans can then (hopefully) be smart enough to live within.
The first assumption is that by talking about entrepreneurship we are talking about making money. I understand that's the usual association, but it's actually far more than that.
The point is that no matter which future arrives, whether it has dollars in it or something else because dollars have all gone - poof! - into money heaven, that the people of the PP community are prepared, resilient, whole and happy. If 'preparing' means only stocking up on toilet paper and some wheat in a bucket, then we've failed miserably in our task.
Entrepreneurship means exactly what I wrote above which is a frame of mind that allows one to (a) know what one's personal gifts are (healing, being a connector, metal working, organizing, trading/bartering, farming, mediating, etc) and (b) have the passion and confidence and experience necessary to bring those out into whatever circumstances exist at the moment.
Perhaps those skills will make money while money exists, and perhaps they will be used in a completely money-less environment. Who knows?
But the time to begin working on those skills is right now…not after some collapse or massive state change has occurred. This will be a big theme of the upcoming Rowe seminar.
I personally have used this same mindset in my own life to both drop my personal consumption quite a bit and to increase my quality of life.
Tracker is advised not to work in food preparation or farm as a tenant. Why not? If one makes money the sole criteria, then it makes sense to seek out something else. But we can all see that currencies are failing. Maybe it makes more sense to have a skill, like cooking or farming, that will really be needed when money becomes worthless. Office worker? - not so much.Yes, they are failed concepts, and possibly are failing, but they have not yet failed. Currencies, for better or worse, are what people still use, so we use them too. Yes, I think it makes sense for people to both accumulate currency now so as to be able to buy the items they want to become more resilient, and to then manage that money well (or have it managed well) for as long as the money system seems to be working. Why? Because that's one of the things none of us can personally control. So we might as well not ceaselessly strive to control something that is out of our control. The dollar, the Fed, federal government, BOJ, ECB and all the rest are going to do what they do with or without my consent. To me the dominant strategy is to work within that failing system while it still works but be tirelessly finding ways to exist outside of that system in parallel.
The pursuit of fiat money is the siren that lures us onto the rocks of ego inflation. I imagine Mr. Kiyosaki is a perfectly nice person but he is still focused on the old paradigm - just tweaked a little to take back some power from the "haves" by saying all we need to do is become an entrepreneur so we're not dependent on someone else for a paycheck. In other words, how to be a "have" instead of a "have-not". It's nice that he wants to spread the word about the "Crash Course" but has he really understood the implications?Yes. Far better than most.
Do we really need another multinational company raping and pillaging the planet? Do we really need more hotels or office complexes? What is the definition of value that best serves the whole? It seems to me we see all around us the consequences of valuing financial wealth over all else. Why would anyone at PP who is aware of the serious issues we face, want to do more of the same? Personal profit at the expense of people and the planet has helped create this mess.This is a grade A projection you've made right here. You've associated entrepreneurship with global raping and pillaging and/or useless office complexes. I'd be willing to guess that if we'd had a podcast on working smarter within your job that this same charge wouldn't have arisen, so my guess is that you are sickened by corporate behaviors and have linked those to the idea of entrepreneurship and - presto! - it's all just more of the same. To answer your question directly, yes, we do need another multinational corporation but one that carries the right values and operates very differently from any in the past. There will always be people and they will always assemble into groups to accomplish things. Whether we call such a group a 'multinational corporation' or 'Sweden' it's just people. I don't believe people are inherently evil so I don't believe corporations are inherently evil. I do think people are inherently malleable and they respond and tuck into whatever structures exist and can act in an evil manner under the wrong conditions. So this means we need to instill (install?) the right conditions. Enter the entrepreneur. This is exactly what we are doing at PP. This is my personal mission. I am creating a world worth inheriting. But it's not an easy task and it is not a linear process. Where does one begin dismantling both personal and cultural narratives that have been operating for millennia? Because that's the actual task here - installing a new narrative to replace the old one. It's not about information - oh how I wish it were! - because information alone has almost no impact on people's behaviors and decisions (see the Ariely podcast for that). We can show people thousands of pieces of data on our dying planet and all that will result is temporary psychological discomfort followed immediately by business as usual. Instead it's about changing the underlying belief structures and those cannot be changed all at once or too rapidly. That's the bad news. The good news is that I happen to be very good at providing information in such a way as to carefully work within the existing belief structures to avoid tripping the usual assortment of 'belief gates' that guard against troubling information. At least for those are ready to hear the message. And Adam and Becca and I work hard to coach people in how to become effective ambassadors for this information too...which brings me to:
I'm very disappointed in what seems to me to be an increasing emphasis on PP on making money. It seems so at odds with the message of the "Crash Course". I imagine it's hard basing a web site business model on informing people of the coming collapse of industrial society when it appears to keep on going and going. My perception is that the PP "community" is narrowing to reflect those interested in money and finance over other issues.What I'm about to say may sound defensive but I am really at peace with it. I cannot do what I do without making money at it. There's a pretty steady undercurrent that I swim against which charges that it's a major conflict to both offer the Crash Course and the idea of making money. It's as if I should somehow be offering all this for free, and then it would be more consistent, more pure, somehow more believable. Of course, that would be a thin, transparent falsehood because to do this for free would simply have meant I would have earned a lot of money somewhere else and now be spending it rapidly to offer this for "free." No matter when or where you live, it takes money, or capital if you prefer, to get things done. Right now that happens to be fiat currencies and so that's what we use. To me there's no conflict at all in this position. It simply is. And if the world shifts and these currencies are no longer functional I will shift rapidly to the new form of capital and I will know exactly how to do that because I have flexed my entrepreneurial muscles along the way and already done the hard work of detaching my emotional connections to the old system of money. I know my value and how to offer it. I will always have a productive position in society, not because I am more special than other people, but because I have done the hard work of dismantling the belief systems I was handed as a kid and installing new ones that comport better with the information at hand. It ain't easy, but it's necessary. In closing, I share your frustration that our meager efforts seem to be too little, too late. That's probably true. But I also believe that we have to become the change we wish to see, and that we still can control many elements of our destiny, and that's the work we do here. And, yes, right now that regularly involves earning and managing money, as it currently exists.
Having recently re- read the book "Transitions-Making Sense of Life's Changes", I cannot help but see that humans as a whole are currently stuck in a giant neutral zone of confusion, where we have not yet closed the door on that which is ending, nor have we totally transitioned into the new. As a species it seems we are stuck in this middle ground, not sure what to do or which way to turn, some of us floundering badly in reaction to pending changes, others less so.
I share in Joyce's emotional angst, as well as in Chris's well written response. Both have valid points which resonate with me. My heart is heavy for ferralhen - I am so sorry to hear of your diagnosis. My thoughts and prayers are with you.
I recently went on a vacation to Mexico. It was so weird. I had not had a vacation for a long time and was much in need of rest. Yet there I sat in the sun thinking to myself that I was a hypocrite for even being there. The emotional head games diminished the enjoyment of my trip. It seemed there was always some measure of guilt to counteract the pleasure. I was and remain very conscious of the fact that such a trip is a a real privilege in this world. Yet I felt compelled to go, for what I feel to be valid reasons. Maybe next week or next year I will get a diagnosis like ferralhen. Maybe next year or 5 years from now traveling anywhere will be so exorbitantly expensive due to scarce resources that no one save for the 1% will be going anywhere.
We live in a new era of unknowns, and it is unknowns that cause the discomfort while in the neutral zone. Many clamber to hang on to the old, unwilling or unable to change old behaviours in order to move forward. Some are more willing and are therefore taking that first step into the new, before it is fully formed. It is the neutral zone that requires the intense level of emotional resiliency.
I just turned 55. With that comes the recognition that, if my health is maintained, I have but 20 years left of what I would call active living. I have come to the decision that this means I better get off my duff and start enjoying life to the max. Time is flying. It does not mean party hearty, but neither does it mean prep til there's no tomorrow. The preps I have made thus far will allow me to enjoy life more, knowing that my situational awareness has led me to take some steps to mitigate potential risks. So much is out of my hands - currency values, interest rates, ecological devastation, cancer… all I can do is what I have been doing: be a good human being, have a small eco footprint, care about what is going on via my actions, and then in spite of the doom and gloom, try to enjoy my life as much as possible. And that is exactly what I am going to do.
Jan
I and I am sure the others on this thread wishing you best during this time.Denise
Jdye51…but the more diesel I burn the more I make. My employees will never, ever get rich working for me. I use and destroy THOUSANDS (and I mean many thousands) of pounds of paper products each year. I seek out work that makes the most sense and avoid all known 'headache jobs' and charity cases. I comply with all the rules, and no more. I play by the rules, and they aren't always 'fair' - to either me or the customer…or 'you'. I do what the customer has requested I do, to offer them the services they will pay for, and no more. Am I bad? Why?
Wildlife Tracker, if you want my advice, do what you enjoy - if doing a brisk business of selling life jackets on the Titanic appeals to you, go for it and don't worry about repeat customers (mind your margins heh heh heh…). Its your life, and don't ever let nadering nabobs tell you its good or bad, fair or just, or anything else, and don't look for someone to blow sunshine up your rear.
Personally, I don't think it matters - we're all on that Titanic, and fortune building and wealth accumulation seem a tad optimistic to me - later on, sure. I would rather focus on the next phase while getting through this…this gruesome ordeal coming straight at us. What do you want out of life and what do you have to do to achieve it? Its the 'have to do' part many don't care for I've found - especially since so many of us have had to commit to something early on and stay with it as events unfold, change, and make previous choices unattractive in a maelstrom of change.
I tell my kids 'don't tell me what you're going to do, show me what you've done'. Good luck.
What I'm about to say may sound defensive but I am really at peace with it. I cannot do what I do without making money at it. There's a pretty steady undercurrent that I swim against which charges that it's a major conflict to both offer the Crash Course and the idea of making money. It's as if I should somehow be offering all this for free, and then it would be more consistent, more pure, somehow more believable.With all due respect I don't think your looking at or understanding the other possibilities. It would seem you are considering only two paths to do what you do, a money subscription or a free model (black or white, one works the other doesn't). There is a third way as well and probably many more, a gift model! I just so happens that you interviewed a very successful Charles Eisenstein that has embraced and lived this model in regards to his own truth and work and currently he isn't destitute. Maybe you read Ascent of Humanity? This is the where and how I became aware and conscious of your work, which I am greatly appreciative of. You do fabulous work Dr. Martenson!
It is my experiences with this same gift model that if I give away what I do to those in need with out the scarcity issue that's created when one implements the paradigm of today's money gathering techniques. I will and have received what I need. And more importantly I spend no time or effort building or creating expectations of what it is I am owed! I am simply in relationships with those that find me valuable and if they want me to continue then well I do have needs.
This does not mean that one has to work from outside the system, you just may find as I have that you become more wealthy in terms of money/resources.This is a place of vulnerability and risk and reward and not an experiment for weak spirits, which I do not presume you to be. If this is a model that calls to you to explore you may find that your product and how you do what you do changes in many unpredictable and positive ways.
I don't believe people are inherently evil so I don't believe corporations are inherently evil. I do think people are inherently malleable and they respond and tuck into whatever structures exist and can act in an evil manner under the wrong conditions. So this means we need to instill (install?) the right conditions.So install away....What is stopping you? I would support you! As I prefer to not face this world without your wonderful talents that support me in return, maybe others feel this same way?
Rose
You have written something potentially very helpful here! I love the ideas you have brought forward and would welcome their implementation!Ironically, Jeremy Rifkin wrote a piece for the New York Times describing the future of our economy and the death of capitalism, as it is currently configured. It reminded me of what you have written here. I will take a look for it and link to it sometime today unless somebody else beats me to it!
Chris thank you for your reply.From what I gather, your view of the future of humanity is that we will continue on but in a different way than in the past.
What I'm saying is that we have so completely trashed the planet that we have no future. So we are coming from very different assumptions, speaking of assumptions.
What you're doing makes perfect sense according to your belief. Having skills and knowing how to use them, making money while it lasts to increase personal resilience and all the rest follow along quite logically based on your view of where we are headed. You do it well and I have benefited from your hard work as much as anyone on PP and for that I thank you. This isn't personal so there's no need for any defensiveness at all.
What has happened for me, and I'm just talking about me not anyone else, is that as I have become more aware of the true state of the health of the planet, I have realized that we are on a path towards extinction and one that is coming so quickly that there isn't anything we can do to reverse it. Once I realized that, everything shifted for me. I tried to share what I was learning here but it didn't appear to go over well because a) it's really depressing, and b) it's really depressing. No one wants to think that it's all over and our actions, no matter how well intended and thought out, are fruitless to avert catastrophe on a planetary level. From what I understand, it's too late to be the change we wish to see and there won't always be people. There will be no world to inherit. So can you see why this doesn't work for me anymore? Imagine coming to this realization. Put yourself in my shoes even for moment and you can see why I reacted the way I did. To think that we have only a couple of decades during which life will be increasingly challenged to cope with the enormous changes happening, is to fundamentally alter one's priorities.
So we just see things differently. Imagine, like Ferralhen (my heart and prayers go out to you), you've done everything right as an entrepreneur and prepper, and you still end up with Stage 3 cancer. From what I see, we are all facing the prospect of our own deaths and those of all we care about in addition to the world we've known around us. From my perspective, all of our lifespans will be limited by larger planetary forces over which we have no control. Hope is a hard thing to let go of and I have struggled mightily with how to wrap my brain around NTE. I see that you and many others here at PP still have hope. That's the difference. I have let go of it and replaced it with acceptance.
It's not my job or my intention to try to convince anyone else of the validity of my perspective. I've come to my own conclusions based on the information that's out there. But I find I can no longer participate in discussions about things that have less meaning for me based on my view of a limited and increasingly difficult future. It just logically follows, don't you agree? Just as it does for you based on your version of the future. Believe me, I'd rather your version. I haven't come to mine easily or lightly. You certainly hold a space for those new to the whole idea of the 3 E's. I'm grateful for that, but I see we've come to different conclusions about the outcome. And everything else hinges on that. So while my husband and I will put together raised beds and continue to do many of the other types of preps, it's with the thought that these are temporary and will most likely only be of benefit in these earlier stages of climate change before things become too chaotic.
Two final points. It is my view that multinational corporations are a part of the paradigm that has brought us to this terrible place. Why would I want to see more of that kind of thinking? And, from what I observe of human nature, I don't see it changing in the sort of fundamental way that would allow for such an entity to remain benign for long no matter how it was set up. Self-interest, greed and arrogance, as history has shown us, eventually creep in. So the forms don't matter so much, it's who we are as a species that does. As I look around me, I'm not encouraged and when you add on the threat of NTE, I see that there just isn't sufficient time on a long enough scale for the further evolution of our species before the consequences of our actions/inactions kick in. Our technology has advanced more rapidly than our moral development. But that's just how I see it.
Finally, I notice that my original post on this thread has gotten quite a few thumbs up. I don't say this from a place of ego - not at all. What it says to me, is that something about at least a part of what I said resonated with some people. I would hope that if others have something they'd like to express but are afraid to, they do so anyway. It seems to me that fewer of the women especially are posting as frequently as they have in the past. My impression is that PP has become increasingly dominated by a narrow group focused on a specific area, namely money and finance. I'm thinking that is because it is something you are interested in and feel you can add to. That's what I meant when I said I thought PP is too focused on making money - at the expense of the other the other two E's. To me, it's become unbalanced. Or, it may be that the focus of PP has just shifted more in that direction based on the interests of those with the loudest voices, so to speak. If so, I encourage those with different interests to speak up more. Perhaps at least part of the reason is that you see you can't do anything to affect climate change or the economy - as you said in your reply regarding the Fed etc., so you are focusing on the one area where you feel you can add value while waiting for the inevitable collapse. Understandable. Just be sure you are clear about that so there isn't any misunderstanding or feeling that certain subjects pertaining to any of the three E's are unwelcome. Like I have with NTE. Of course, this is my parting feedback and you are under no obligation to agree or act on it in any way. It's your website. I'm telling what I see because I do appreciate who you are and your desire to help. These are observations, not an attack.
I still have time on my membership but won't be renewing it after it expires. I imagine I'll still check in with PP from time to time even after I'm no longer a member so I'm not leaving with hard feelings. This way I won't feel frustrated and no one here will have to put up with my dark posts! I have much affection and appreciation for all who participate here. I just need to follow where my heart and mind are leading me. Like you did Chris when you left the corporate world and made your shift. So I think you understand. We are each doing what we feel is right for us as individuals.
Many thanks to all and best wishes ahead,
Joyce
Dear Joyce, Chris and all,
First of all, congratulations to Chris, Adam, and the whole Peak Prosperity team for your success in the form of Kiyosaki's willingness to spend the time learning about the Crash Course and to share your ideas with his employees. That must be a very satisfying milestone, and I'm also glad these ideas are spreading through those channels.
Second, I thumbed-up Joyce's original message, and now I see that it got quite a lot of clicks. When I did that, I had only skimmed the message, so I am probably guilty of less-than-responsible liking. Chris, sorry for that. I clicked on the thumbs up button because after my cursory glance I wanted to concur with Joyce that it is important to integrate a deeper exploration and presentation of the environment into PP and the Crash Course, as there is a well-justified case to be made for the third E being by far the most significant.
But, after reading the message more carefully, I can see that my clicking would also come across as supportive of some of the more critical and less constructive statements in the message. Joyce, just for the record, my messages sometimes also contain overly critical lines as well, so I'm not trying to point the finger at you. There's an optimal point between constructive debate and less-helpful criticism or sarcasm, and I don't always land in that ideal range, but I think we all try to remain positive while also allowing different - sometimes conflicting - ideas to engage, and I think most of us also try to improve on this as we are here for longer periods of time, and become more self-aware and more aware of others in the community.
Perhaps another reason that I clicked on Joyce's message is that Robert Kiyosaki's approach contains what I perceive as a little too much ticky-tacky marketing for my tastes, and so maybe - whether for simply esthetic or substantive reasons - I also wanted to express my hope that Peak Prosperity maintains its higher quality approach to personal change.
But, in the end, maybe my decision to like that post was due to a gut reaction on my part…just some fast skimming, fast thinking and fast clicking while on a break from work. More slow thinking before deciding whether or not to click was probably warranted in this case.
Chris, I am glad that you are skilled at presenting information in a way that is less likely to trigger people's emotional and/or cognitive defense mechanisms, and I have really benefited a lot from your references to Dan Ariely and behavioral economics, as this overlaps significantly with some of the material and the approach present in a class that I teach. That is just one way that I gain a lot of professional development - as well as personal satisfaction - from participating in this virtual community.
I also love fact that there is a good deal of real, substantive dialog here. While sometimes it's a little edgy, for the most part we all do our best at respecting each other and I have been exposed to all kinds of interesting and provocative ideas since I started coming here. So, thanks to all for exposing yourselves. :)
Cheers,
Hugh
[quote=agitating prop]You have written something potentially very helpful here! I love the ideas you have brought forward and would welcome their implementation!
Ironically, Jeremy Rifkin wrote a piece for the New York Times describing the future of our economy and the death of capitalism, as it is currently configured. It reminded me of what you have written here. I will take a look for it and link to it sometime today unless somebody else beats me to it!
[/quote]
Always great to see your posts AP. I had to chuckle on the Jeremy Rifkin reference- this is exactly what I thought of when I read the transcripts from the podcast. I read this thread on Sunday morning, and within an hour read Rifkin's editorial in the Times, and was struck by the sense that one person was completely off the rails with obsolete thinking, and the other was dangerously close to making sense. I'll post the link here and let readers make up their own minds.
Link
Kiyosaki's contention that people should search out rent seeking vocations, valorizing the rentier class structure whilst masquerading as "entrepreneurs" is a disappointing exercise in the last century's capitalism.
Of course, the interview is liberally interspersed with neo-Austrian references to the Mises clan of historical revisionists and grifters, as well as the obligatory bowing of heads to Ayn Rand as the only means of legitimizing one's self to the endorsement of such vocation.
What if everyone was a rent seeker- who then Mr. Kiyosaki, pays the rent?
Rifkin hones in on the easily defeated ideological model that is surrounded by neo-classical economics- of which Austrian theory is a major subscriber. According to this model, value is determined by the markets, by marginal utility- by preference and demand curves with Pareto compliant outcomes. By the Rational Consumer.
Which is to say they have no coherent theory of value.
Examine Rifkin’s examples of Napster for example, and a distributing conclusion arises, which is that consumers now expect that commodities have low-or no- marginal cost. People downloaded Napster music for free, and in the ultimate smack down to the flag waving libertarians, it took the State to bring the consumer back to the cash register. So much for the free market. All of this of course is predicted by the labor theory of value, which says that a commodity is worth the sum of the labor content to reproduce it. And as it turns out, if you download a song for free in 15 seconds, that is exactly what it is worth- nothing. And it takes the State to enforce a monopoly to demand payment, as with software, as with websites, and to Rifkin’s point, an ever increasingly larger share of modern commodities.
As for the budding entrepreneurs?
Who is going to buy their commodities if the competitive products are free?
How does a worker earn a salary when the product they make can be obtained for free?
[Quote=Jeremy Rifkin]
Nowhere is the zero marginal cost phenomenon having more impact than the labor market, where workerless factories and offices, virtual retailing and automated logistics and transport networks are becoming more prevalent. Not surprisingly, the new employment opportunities lie in the collaborative commons in fields that tend to be nonprofit and strengthen social infrastructure — education, health care, aiding the poor, environmental restoration, child care and care for the elderly, the promotion of the arts and recreation. In the United States, the number of nonprofit organizations grew by approximately 25 percent between 2001 and 2011, from 1.3 million to 1.6 million, compared with profit-making enterprises, which grew by a mere one-half of 1 percent. In the United States, Canada and Britain, employment in the nonprofit sector currently exceeds 10 percent of the work force.As for the entrepreneur hitting it big with the next new idea? Mr. Kiyosaki might be better advised to suggest lottery tickets to his conference attendees, the odds are better and the exposure much lower.
Chris said "I am creating a world worth inheriting."
That is why I am here. That is what I want to spend my remaining twenty so years pursuing.
That is the fundamental difference in perspective between myself and Joyce. As bad as things are, and may get, I still believe there is a future. I want to be there to meet it. I want to help build it. I hope to live long enough to be the one to introduce my grandchildren to it.
Ferral Hen, my thoughts a prayers are with you. I love your posts. I hope we can return the favor by occasionally bringing you some cheer and comfort with our comments.
JT