The thought of 100 more years of life is appalling to you?
You are on an amazing living planet teeming with biodiversity more complex than you are even capable of imagining. It is a gift to be here. If you are in unbearable pain, either physical or emotional, then I can understand. I just cannot comprehend anyone finding life appalling. My condolences.
But, if you are appalled and ready to exit, that does free you up to put your body on the line for what you believe, and for those you love.
jtd: I imagine I might have had the same response as you, when I was younger (although I doubt I would have added the last couple of sentences).
But I would ask you to reconsider the assumption that I "find life appalling." Of course it is an amazing living planet, and I love and treasure every natural molecule of it, as has, I trust, been clear in other posts. No doubt none of us can fully imagine its complexity, but what I do see holds me spellbound every day, and will do for as long as I last. However, there are also seasons of life that humanity is not entirely separate from. Many, if not most people, as they get older, find it easier to imagine not being here in this body and personhood forever - possibly another of nature's "gifts" because that's also the way it goes.
No, I'm not in unbearable pain, but age and some level of pain and generational disability do rather go together, and you get more and more tired of it, which distracts one from the enthusiasm one feels for one's own enjoyment, and brings the harshness of others' lives more into focus. Over-population and the stripping of nature and the very biodiversity you love would accelerate with this particular use of technology. So no, much as I love the planet and all its life-forms, I don't see myself as separate from them and free to continue my use of its resources past the same natural cycles that the rest of life is subject to.
You'll notice I also appreciated that Sergey himself recognized that his vision was "radical" and expected it to be modified by other balancing forces.
I am making a conjecture here… To say what you have said causes me to think that you are a young person, jtd, not yet sufficiently/significantly touched by life and all that that entails. ‘Young’ of course being subjective, not measured in years, but in lived experience. I could be wrong of course.
I am a ‘young’ 61 year old. Fit, healthy, a bit overweight, but able to by and large do what I want, whether shovelling yards of soil, splitting cords of wood, doing my daily work outs, or engaging in intellectual debates. I am, by some people’s measure, an ‘old person with a disability’. I am profoundly deaf. I put on a good front though with my adaptive skills… as most people with disabilities do. This is a requisite survival skill.
If push comes to shove, will they give the ventilator to me, or the person in the next bed who is 20 years younger and has 3 kids? Since I believe I know the answer to that, irrespective of my provincial government’s Ethical Framework for Medical Decision Making which seems to have adequate protective measures, I am under no illusions. Survival of the fittest remains the name of the game. The disabled and other marginalized equity groups are usually the first to draw the short straw.
In keeping with vshelford’s comment, I adore this world, this country of mine, this beautiful province and city I live in. It is nothing short of magnificent. It is heaven on Earth. But my experience of life on this Earth, as a person with a disability, has been anything but heaven on Earth. I recently retired after 42 years of working, still dealing with the same exclusionary issues in my last year as when I started way back when as an 18 year old. How sad is that? Yes, there are constitutional rights, Charter rights, but within a complaint based justice system. We all know how well that goes…
To circle back to the original intent of this response, ya, I am f’ing tired of the fight to belong in a world that more often than not gives me implicit and/or explicit messages that I am not wanted. I have fought to take my place, valiantly, subserviently, humbly, knowing that as long as I was a slave to this backward system my star would never shine bright. I did shine though, in spite of it. I will always try to shine. To do less would not be ‘Jan’.
There are so many marginalized people who are unable to see the light for all the darkness. I know I am much better off than most, for sure. I do understand though: a limited life span provides an exit from a hell on Earth existence.
I think of this issue kind of like a being at great dinner party. Everyone one is having a wonderful time. Most go home at the allotted time. Some want to stay and keep partying even though the host is not into it.
To each unto his/her/their own. If you want to live a couple hundred years, have at it. I do hope you have a really good financial planner and an even better therapist. I personally will be happy to go when nature says it is time for me to go. Knowing myself so well, I am certain that when I do exit this life someone, something, some deity, will say “don’t let the door hit you on the way out!” LOL
Jan
Scientism is the mystical belief in the omnipotence of science.
Cargoism is the mystical belief that technology will solve any human predicament.
Anthropologist Joseph Tainter makes the case for declining marginal rates of productivity in his book, The Collapse of Complex Societies. The more complex a society becomes, the less discoveries are made, science becomes less efficient, etc.
Do we even need to discuss the concept of carrying capacity, or is that still in the ridicule phase of truth? How many humans can the Earth support without oil? 1-2 billion, maybe?
Transhumanism is the new cargoism. These same folks want to colonize Mars. Mars is dead. What does this say about a person’s psychology?
Oblivion - the state of being unaware or unconscious of what is happening.
That can be intentionally obtained. I like getting into the “flow”! It’s actually easier than smiling at stupidity.
But for the record, when I talked of drudgery, I meant the kind of jobs that flourish where wealth inequality has run amok, and large swaths of the population have few choices but to do hard physical labour long past when their bodies can take it, cleaning up after the super-entitled who despise them, homeless "camper force" people counting themselves lucky if they can make it through another day, week, month of gig work for Amazon or whoever else will throw them a crust.
I have been fortunate enough to be largely able to pick the types of “work” I engage in. The fact that now I choose to do work that others, who have no choice, consider drudgery doesn’t change that.
a lack of decorum and self control on your part has little to do with my opinions on death and dying.
Robie Robinson, a pascifist who voted for neither warmonger in 2016, and sits amazed that I was suckered into typing a reply to you.
That is the most asinine thing I have ever read. The deliberate destruction of millions of people methodically rounded up and exterminated versus Donald Trump.
Trump has at no point received political backing from anyone in politics, not even Republican “supporters”. The bureaucracy was so in the tank for his rival that to this day we are still unravelling the conspiracy.
You can bet none of them would have released a virus under his sanction. The media announces every time he farts just to make sure his reputation suffers for it.
He was the first western leader to announce HCQ as a treatment and now the NIH and CDC and everyone else has spent the last two months trying to prove HCQ is dangerous and criminally negligent treatment because it stings when launched from a slingshot at a persons casket to the refrain of “HCQ doesn’t stop people from dying, its garbage”
You are going to believe what you want to believe regardless of the evidence, but just note that Trump has been under sustained attack since before he even began his presidency and would never be able to do something so nefarious so pick another villain.
The sad thing is that even when he’s right, everyone wants to prove him wrong and we flounder for months with trials and accusations quibbling over trivialities and technicalities in order to undermine his presidency.
That doesn’t sound like Hitlers experience at all. I’m pretty sure Hitler was welcomed with open arms. Maybe you should consider whether your hyperbole actually undermines your case rather before you draw absurd comparisons.
Yes, exactly so.
If you are moderately inebriated, in a bar, and swear to make your point, it’s one thing. Using profanity, in virtually any other instances, is a reflection on you, rather than an ideal way to get your point across.
Have you noticed how the new folks have begun to taint the culture around here?
Internet debates are cute. Here it’s a waste of time. Are you providing actionable information? Are you providing valuable insight to help shape “a world worth inheriting”? If not, please leave. This isn’t Facebook. If you want to spew vitriolic hate, then GTFO. Talking about killing people? Have you even watched the Crash Course?
Where’s the “Shun” button on this thing?
“Try him and execute him in the future and all his family that followed him. Sooner the better for the world …And all the people that lie and follow him. Execute them all.”
Huh, the internet has a record of you asserting a different opinion. Perhaps you should calm down and choose your words more wisely?
Science isn’t a belief system. It’s a tool, similar to a hammer, a lawnmower, or math. It requires no belief. In fact, science requires disbelief, in so much as all scientific inquiry is based around falsifiability. This is probably why science falls apart after so many generations: people start attempting to prove their theories, instead of disproving them.
TL;DR
Science > Scientism
Scientism=Religion
I do not take medical advice from politicians. I don’t take political advice from celebrities. And I don’t take financial advice from the Fed. If anyone injected bleach they brought it on themselves.
I have the benefit of thinking for myself, you on the otherhand seem trapped in a spiral of irrational hatred for a single politician on whom you have caste all blame for the current situation because it confirms your own biases to do so. If only Hillary Clinton had won, you would have your messiah and you wouldn’t have to tolerate seeing Trump fumble through a global pandemic (and I’m sure she’d listen to you too). Good thing there’s people like you out there to show us who the devil truly is, we were all so blinded by his great hair we couldn’t think straight.
Get real. There are few politicians that have or would have managed this any better. With partisan politics and money influencing politicians, there isn’t a single way this would have turned out different in this country. Big Pharma would still be pushing their expensive drugs, bailouts would have still happened, small businesses would still get screwed, and the taxpayers would still pick up the bill. And honestly, millions of people are still going to die and the virus isn’t going away. Deal with it the best you can cause there are far worse things coming that haven’t revealed themselves yet. Then you’ll have something new to pin on your scapegoat.
Hey Les - I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to sound like I was"correcting" you, but rather agreeing with you while also amplifying the idea I had started with. If you are able to help with the harvest, I’ll bet the farmer is grateful. We have a blueberry farm on the “big island” next to ours, who has been running it for generations now, but every year it’s been getting harder and harder to find workers to harvest them. He can’t afford to pay living wages because he can’t sell his excellent product for more than people, used to agri- business imports, are prepared to pay. The workers who need the jobs can’t afford to live here, or have expectations of a techno utopia where physical work no longer happens, or are already so far down the abyss of mental illness/ptsd/addiction that they can’t find their way. It’s a strange world, where people on all sides of the economic equation are finding things don’t “fit” any more. Divisions no one specifically intended are widening on every front. Individuals like you (and I, and much of the PP community) just look around and do what we realistically can to help, alleviate, and throw whatever weight we have on the side of the productive and useful, trying to stay aware and adaptive as we go.
As someone said, “The more I learn, the less I know.”
Yesterday was a busy day recording new content, so I’ve spent this morning catching up on the site and just read through the recent comments here.
New user Brendon Watt regrettably triggered a number of violations of PP’s Site Posting Guidelines & Rules. We have removed his comments on this thread and placed him under moderator review.
Hopefully, being new here, he’s able to orient himself around our “polite dinner party…before drinks are served” standard of decorum and demonstrate a sincere desire to return and engage folks respectfully.
As always, Chris and I are grateful for the restraint and grace with which this community deals with these incidents.
cheers,
A
Nicely said, Granny. I hope you write & publish or have a blog b/c you are clearly a woman who thinks deeply, is wise, & has valuable advice. I resonated with 110% of your comments. I’ll be following your posts from now on, girl! (I can call you “girl,” cuz I’m a “girl,” too ) Be well!
I’d say:
science = empiricism, reality.
science + human beings = Scientismy
science + human beings + money + flawed incentive structure + corporate interests + digital book burnings = The fourth turning.
I suspect far too many people talk about “science” and far too readily forget that in practice “science” today looks a whole lot like the last one on my list.
Luckily Chris doesn’t seem to forget that…
Damn i miss all the fun.
Seems like in the old days there was an alert moderator function in the comments. Perhaps it is time to institute it. It could function as a "video cameras in use "deterrent.
I am guilty of using profanity but i refrain from directing it at anyone here. Ad Homs are a sign of a weak argument and an even weaker mind. Flame wars are an unnecessary distraction. I really do not relish wading through inane exchanges that diminish the quality of the discussion.
There are no political solutions to the human condition
) Be well!