Thank you again. I am trying to understand the trajectories you are describing. We seem to agree that shot # 1 hit slightly west of the south-east corner of the southern stands, likely with a slightly upward angle. This trajectory suggests the shooter may have been located inside the single-story AGR building as opposed to the rooftop. Can you give your opinion on a more exact trajectory for shot # 2 and shot # 3. I have been attributing victim # 3 (Copenhaver) injuries to shot # 3. Would you provide your proposed trajectory of the bullet that hit Copenhaver and do you believe it was shot # 3? If not shot # 3, which shot hit Copenhaver? If you could draw your proposed trajectories on this aerial map it might be helpful.
This is another orientation of a proposed trajectory for shot # 3. If you could describe your proposed trajectory it would be helpful. I am trying to fine-tune the trajectories as much as possible. Anyone that knows an exact location of the victims and the location of their injuries would be very helpful so I can adjust the trajectories to match.
Chris has analysed the sonic crack and the report (gunshot sound) for those first 3 shots. They are very similar but the first one is slightly longer time delay, by about 5 milliseconds than the next two shots and the amplitude of the sound is slightly less.
If the speed of sound that day was 1200 feet per second, that is 1.2 feet per millisecond.
My working hypothesis to explain these data is that there were two shooters and they fired from two separate windows of Building 6. The first shot was by Sniper A, and he would have been about 6 feet farther from his window than Sniper B.
Sniper A takes his shot and misses. I think this is the shot that hit Trumpâs ear.
Maybe he has a bolt action rifle. Bolt actions are preferred due to their accuracy over semi auto.
Once Sniper B sees that Sniper A missed, he fires his two shots. Being about 6 feet closer to his window, the sound of his two shots is slightly louder and the time delay between the sonic crack and the report is slightly less.
So in my scenario here, there are two lines of fire. Iâm assuming the second window and the third window from the parking lot.
If it can be proven that those first three shots were on an ascending trajectory by very precise field measurements, then the lone gunman narrative is false and the whole investigation needs to focus on the consipiracy and who the conspirators are.
I think all three of those first shots taken by pro snipers, all had trajectories that put them in a very narrow cone so all other injuries and that one fatality were from the next five shots which may have been the gunman on the roof of Building 6.
So the bottom line is that the first three shots were fired from essentially the same location relative to each other save for that 6 foot difference.
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Our working theories are not too far apart. You have suggested 2 shooters. Based on the the bullet trajectories I have proposed, there may be 3 rifles/shooters inside building 6 (the single-story AGR building). With the fairly uniform timing of shots 1,2 and 3, these rifles may have been pre-mounted, pre-aimed and fired by electronic solenoids/servos attached to a timer. If the rifles were mounted and aimed at an earlier date, it explains why they would miss when their target moves his head or ducks down. A human sniper would have probably compensated to the ducking maneuvers by firing the later shots lower, which obviously never happened. I am suggesting that the first 3 shots may have been pre-aimed and traveled precisely through their pre-determined target area an exact distance above the podium.
In my scenario, described in other posts, the third shotâs trajectory is very close to the first shot that is seen hitting the guardrail but it goes by lower and moves the decorative fabric on the guardrail. If that fabric movement was caused by bullet #3 going by, being lower than the impact point of bullet #1, suggests a human shooter tracking his target as he crouches to the floor of the stage.
You see the fabric move at about the 20 second mark and again further in the video in slow motion.
I see no evidence of shot #2 in the video but I assume it must be in a tight group with the first and last shots.
The three âextraâ cases could have been planted beside Crooks.
I have updated my image about my theory about where the 2nd shooter could have been. Most likely position.
This is a picture of what I believe may be Copenhaver that I have attributed to shot # 3. The view is angled but appears to be the southern stands, upper seating, several feet north of the southern edge of the large vertical video screen, possibly 12 to 15 feet north of the south-east corner railing.
I maintain that shots 1 2 and 3 were from a pro sniper or maybe two pro snipers shooting out of the window(s) of Building 6.
Shot 1 hits the guardrail and shatters into schrapnel and injures Dutchâs right side because at the time of the shot heâs looking at the Megatron. Dutch is on video walking down the steps on his own with no blood showing on his right side. So anyone who suggests that Dutch was hit by a rifle round is wrong.
The guy in the dark T Shirt may also have taken a fragment of schrapnel since he raises his hand to his right side right after shot 1 is heard.
I maintain that shot 3 was very close and in a tight grouping with shots 1 and 2 since these are pro snipers that would not be spraying bullets all over the place.
I believe that bullet 3 moves the decorative fabric just below the guardrail.
If so, this supports the idea that pro sniper took the first 3 shots and their trajectories were a very tight grouping.
Crooks was on that roof knowing he was going to take some shots so itâs not unreasonable to suggest that shots 4 5 6 7 and 8 were from Crooks.
For me, Iâm just focused on the first 3 shots and their point of origin.
If Iâm right then this proves a massive conspiracy involving the âauthoritiesâ that had the power to control the entire site with regard to security, access etc.
This is a screenshot of the video showing Dutch walking down the bleachers.
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I was watching your youtube video on " They had a perfect view and 10+ feet of elevation" and you mentioned that the head of the shooter would have splatter if it would have been hit by sniper #2. Here is the pic of the shooter unblurred head on the roof and as you can see, there is no splatter.
Hereâs body cam footage from local lawn enforcement who Obviously were the first ones on the roof prior to Secret Service. Iâm not sure if anybody else has noticed this or seen this video. It is a longer video so if youâll pay attention at exactly the 5:43 mark And shows how many were laying next to the bad actors body. Seeing there were five spent cartridges on camera and counted by law-enforcement, next to bad actor crooks, and supposedly only one fired by Secret Service CS team, That just doesnât add up to how many rounds were actually fired that day. One could say that somebody tampered with the scene prior to this video whatever and thatâs OK however, the only ones who wouldâve tampered with the scene wouldâve been anybody involved with the shooter⌠Leading one to believe theyâre smart enough to not change themselves in the number of spent cartridges. They wouldâve put the right amount next to the body⌠It also leads one to believe that this video is indeed accurate and we are being lied to in a massive coverup⌠due to negligence or being culpable. I just think thereâs too many lies for their not to be a comfortable party whether itâs 1 to 100 I donât know how many people⌠But it is hard to believe anything that theyâre saying now
IDK, if this video has been seen. His brother was at the rally and said he saw a CS team set up in a location far left in front of the stage. About 350 yards from Crooks.
Don Kress and I were coming to similar conclusions about the trajectories of the bullets fired. The following is an illustration, largely based on Donâs data that he provided earlier in the forum thread but with some information I added.
The main points are: (elevation estimates by Google Earth Pro compared to sea level)
- Crooks body elevation was approximately 1357 feet above sea level.
- The terrain outside AGR building 6 (single-story) was approximately 1335 feet elevation above sea level.
- Trumpâs ear elevation was approximatley 1347 feet above sea level.
- Shot 1 (and probably 2 and 3) impacted the stands at an elevation of approximately 1348 feet.
- The distance from the podium to the impacted guardrail was approximately 75 feet per my estimation.
- The total distance from the impacted guardrail and Crooks body was approximately 560 feet.
- If the bullet rose approx 1 foot from the podium to the guardrail, covering a distance of 75 feet then we can calculate that the bullet rose approximately 7.5 feet from the shooter to the guardrail. We can therefore conclude that the shooterâs rifle was approximately 7.5 feet lower than the guardrail. The elevation would therefore be 1348-7.5=1340.5 feet or 5.5 feet above the terrain outside the AGR building.
- The rifle firing the shot would be consistent with someone standing or seated inside AGR building 6 (single-story).
- This preliminary trajectory estimation is NOT consistent with a shooter/rifle on the roof of AGR building 6.
Special thanks to Don Kress for all the replies and information.
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Counter Sniper Location (#4?)
Building 70 yards West of the triangular lake.
40.856083°N 79.973123°W
A youtube post (Channel: âGuidedâ) by the brother (Eric) of a gentlemen (Jerry) who was in the stands behind Trump. Brother saw snipers setting up not on the roof of, but in the bleachers under the roof.
Title: " WHO REALLY SHOT THE SHOOTER? NOT WHO YOU THINK."
Brother gives brief account @1:45. Building pictured @2:49
Also where Dan Bongino says shot came from.
By my reckoning, that CS team was about 230 yards from Trump and 356 yards from Crooks. The closest point of approach of that shot (CS#4 vs Crooks) to the Trump microphone is about 65 to 70 yards.
The time from firing to Trump mic picking up the sonic boom crack is the time for the bullet to travel about 215 yards, then for sound to travel 65 yards.
The time from firing to the boom of the report is the time for sound to travel 230 yards.
Assume bullet speed 2500 ft/sec and sound 1100 ft/sec.
Expected click boom for bullet passing near mic fired from 230 yards, I get 351 milliseconds.
But expected click boom taking into account bullet misses mic by 65 yards, I get 192 milliseconds. (assuming you can still hear the click of the round breaking the sound barrier from a speeding bullet 65 yards away).
Similar calculations can be estimated for the location of other microphones.
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Focusing on the information here that was never in the custody of the Police, FBI, or SS.
Given:
- clear shots at the X from the audience stage left.
- Crooks wondering around for hours with permission, obvious during the event that he was there.
- Even to the level of a picture prior to the shots that he was there.
- Windows from a 2nd story building only 150 yards from the X open to the Roof and the X.
- eye witness yelling heâs got a gun on the roof minutes before any shots. So itâs obvious a shooter is there to shoot at the X.
- Shots are fired, rapid shots are fired from somewhere Stage Left Audience Press, etc. 50,000 witnesses and Press with cameras running at very high speed to the world 1st time for CNN to broadcast live.
- Site was somewhere else but moved here shortly before the event with obvious very obvious danger because of uncovered buildings
- If I read this list before the event I would conclude this was a setup by somebody probably the Cheneyâs (Cheatle splg?) broke out in her career with Dick Cheney look it up.
Conclusion: Crooks was a patsy thinking he was in a training mission, real shooters were in the building. - Water tower would not be a good location for a shooter, Iâd pick the building windows. Shooter would have to get down quickly and escape.
- The guy on the roof seemed to never question the guys in uniform. Lets see some ID? Took it for granted they were the good guys.
- Looks, Smells, and sounds like the real shooter was in the building not the roof. Crooks may have never had a gun at all. What if some of the witnesses on the ground were in on it too? Salting the story. Wouldnât take but one âheâs got a gunâ to panic the horses in the street. Premier was certainly his first and last if thatâs crooks. Could be wrong but stay with the data that was never in the custody of the known Fabricators of the story.
Chris, your line from Sniper Team #2 to Crooks position shows that the large American flag could have obscured their viewâŚ
Well done!
A new datum has emerged which I suggest goes right into the green bucket.
A video taken at the moment of the first shots being heard shows that the second shot is the one that hits the hydraulic line of the forklift.
Itâs right at the end of the video and the camera is panning to the left but we still see the hydraulic fluid spraying out when the third shot is heard.
If you look closely you can even see that puff of smoke when bullet #1 hits the guardrail.
It would be very interesting to know exactly the height of that hit on the hydraulic line. The forklift is about 50 feet back from the bleachers so perspective needs to be taken into account.
The owner of that forklift is Black Diamond Equipment Rentals. It would be interesting to get info from the mechanic that repaired that line. Exactly how high off the ground was that hit?
See the link to the post where the video file is on Google DriveâŚ
Also, a video has emerged from someone who was right in front of Building 6. One screenshot shows a spot of light in the third window from the parking lot. This could be light reflecting off the objective lense of a rifle scope. That window looks dark and the other windows seem to show evidence of reflected light.
A scope would be a few inches higher than the barrel of the rifle. Your estimate of 5.5 feet is pretty darn close.
can someone explain to me, how that white van belonging to Crooks, ended up 10 miles away, with the drone he flew 2 hours before the shooting in it, along with the explosives?
I read somewhere that President Trump is going back to Butler PA to stage another rally. This is a brilliant move from a PR standpoint but it is also a great opportunity. I also heard that the bleachers, stage and other materials are owned by the Trump team and hauled around the country by truck.
If this is true, the great opportunity is to rebuild everything at the exact same venue and reconstruct the stage and bleachers in exactly the same spots, put the forklift that had its hydraulic hose punctured in exactly the same spot and hire some professional land surveyors with their precision equipment and document the whole site out to include the entire AGR property. Throw in the water tower too.
Then plot where the known bullet impacts are, expecially bullet #1 that hitâs Trumpâs ear AND the guardrail, now you can draw a line back to the bulletâs point of origin.
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Wrt narrowing down elevation, it could also be useful to identify the type of the green John Deere tractor, which appears to be positioned close and almost parallel to the barrier. It is a tracked model similar to, e.g., JD 8220T, yet each model has slightly different heights between 3 m and 3.6 m (9.8 to 11.8 ft, respectively). Iâm attaching a sharper image of the same scene, which I tried to correct for the perspective distortion using gimp
.
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