4 days ago I posted here in this thread the photo showing blood on Trump’s hand.
You should stop spreading nonsense.
Oh, you mean the room where this guy looks out of the window 10 seconds after the first shot and 6 seconds before the 10th shot?
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Hi Phase 5,
I had the exact same reaction as you, when I saw “schroederized” posting his findings on August 1st. See here:
So, on August 1st both schroederized and myself have found the same results independently and now you are the third independent guy to find the same result. This is a very good indication that our analysis is close to reality….
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what do you mean sorry…its exactly what i said it was, it was the reason i asked you what direction he was walking a few days ago when we looked at this…
it is very sad, but you are exactly right…
the whole back tracing 3D CAD model is based on that assumption, and it gets even worse…
the man who is in charge of that model even propagandizes that that grazing of Trump’s ear caused the bullet trajectory to deflect from a straight line to a broken line: straight from the shooter’s muzzle to Trump’s ear, then a non-zero angle in 3D space from his ear to the railing of the right bleachers, then yet another non-zero angle in 3D space (which he admits is larger than the Trump grazing angle), and what happens after that interaction with the bleachers, he does not take into account…
so you are exactly right that he uses two pseudorandom points (the prefix pseudorandom is used because the points can be approximated, but there is no certainty whatsoever about the degrees of randomness or accuracy one can assume any further) to base his “very accurate” deductions on…
it is even worse: two weeks ago, I joined this forum, and the point where that 1st bullet interacted with that bleacher has shifted since I joined from the exact corner of the rightmost bleachers (i.e., the furthest possible point along the straight line from the shooter to the bleachers) to somewhere in between the man with the blue t-shirt and David Dutch…
the above picture shows on the right the puffy cloud that was caused by the interaction of the 1st bullet with the right bleachers.
two weeks ago, the master of the 3D CAD model used the red-white mark on these bleachers as THE reference point for the interaction of the 1st bullet and these bleachers…
note that I stressed a couple of times the property of the assumed bullet trajectory by this man as a straight line…
until 1 week ago, he was not aware of the concept of ballistic trajectories that take into account deceleration of bullets, wind drift and horizontal drop. he even argued on this fact stating I should look into the Pythagorean theorem instead of asking dumb questions…
yet again, you are exactly right, even though I do believe that Trump’s ear got injured by that 1st bullet.
the reasons are the following:
- I went through many camera angles frame by frame and his facial expression starts showing pain at the exact moment when the bullet flew by…
- it is perfectly possible that the distance was such that this bullet would have caused a burn would that started bleeding
that is also exactly right…
as soon as I started asking questions in order to reconstruct the 3D model in a kml like format, I discovered that it did not contain sufficient information to reconstruct this reliably…
he stalls people who want to look at his model more closely, let alone validate it, and he does that by making the references not easily available…
this is a reply he gave to @sonjax6
I got many similar replies, but that were not formulated very politely…
thanks to my queries and patience and persistence, certain details have been added to this picture, and two days ago, it looked like this:
so, it took 1.5 weeks since my first request for these details before he provided more precise ground floor level values.
as you can see, the version of august the 8th states that Trump’s podium floor level was at 1337 ft above sea level, the man he labels crooks at 1335 ft and the corner of the right bleachers at 1335 ft…
2 days ago, he added the decimals I asked for for about 1.5 weeks and what turns out?
if you look at the place where he positions crooks on that roof is at 1335.15+15.4 ft = 1350.55 ft = 450.18 yd = 411.65 m. that is exactly at the roof top. as it is not very realistic to have shot from that exact roof top line, let’s round the values up with a realistic and even low-end value (considering the height of magazine, barrel and scope and some wiggle room), which becomes 1351.5 ft = 450.5 yd = 411.94 m.
in the message where he posted this updated model, he thanked me for asking these clarifications because, as he bragged, they made the back tracing model even more precise (!) and strengthened the identification of a particular vent even more!
1.5 days ago, Gary Melton from Paramount Tactical brought a great report online. even though it is still preliminary data based on his trip to Butler of last week. in that report, he shows the GPS coordinates of a survey of the area with a drone that is dedicated to geomapping, and this provides really great data…
yesterday, I summarized this information, and here it goes:
so, I have been asking for 1.5 weeks to get the more fine grained ground level data for Trump and where he places the shooter on the low roof, and you can immediately deduce what these figures mean:
even in his model, the shooter was shooting DOWNhill…
as I am using 1.2 meters (3.9 ft) as my estimate for the podium height, I am a little lower, but this does not really make a difference…
so, let me ask you a question… he puts the height of the interaction of the 1st bullet at ground floor level 1336.32+12.21167 = 1348.53 ft = 449.51 yd = 411.03 m, and Trump’s ear is allegedly at 1349.103 ft, how on earth could a back trace algorithm result in a position that is well BELOW the top of the roof of AGR building 6?
he places the interior ceiling at 8 ft below the top of the roof and the vents are a couple of inches above these ceilings…
if a rifle zeroed at 100 yards shot from that roof, the ballistic drop would have been about 6.5 inches, which is much smaller than the distance between the roof top and any of the vents or windows of that building…
so, since I deduced from the values he shows in his reference 884-5 (the 2nd 3D model shown above), that he is pushing a fairy tale (not to use the 4 letter word that @bumblebeeez does not want me to see use), and it gets even worse…
as you may have noticed, I have been asking for the references he uses to come to the ground levels he uses… in his scheme he mentions prominently “floor level 1335.15 (ref. 921) topographical KML map”, when you look up what that refers to, you come to a file on a google drive called “Trump_Rally_Butler_2024.kml”, and this defines a polygon with 44 points that specify the perimeter of the Butler Rally area, but none of these points specify their elevation with respect to whatever reference level…
so, I asked where he gets his reference floor levels from, and he points me in a very condescending manner to a youtube video that should learn me a lesson in using google earth and determining the “slop” of a hilly terrain. I am not going to point out how many spelling and grammatical errors he makes and keeps making, even after having been pointed at them… I am not a native English speaker/writer either, but at least I do my best to avoid obvious mistakes…
as he pointed me to that video, I applied the exact methodology that was shown in that video to try to bring to his attention that the ground level values that he uses (and that are allegedly derived from watching that video) do not make any sense whatsoever:
so, the yellow line in the above picture is the main road next to the rally area. based on all the bodycam and helicopter and drone footage, it is reasonable to assume that it is not a bumpy road, as what is suggested by the elevation profile he swears is an accurate representation of the elevation of the path to which it refers…
so, the question remains: where does he get his floor level values from…
anyway… I got carried away a bit 
and indeed, the ad hominem arguments and many other logic fallacies are widely used to try to discredit anyone who asks pertinent questions and he tries to stall people making progress in whatever path they are investigating that is not the vent path…
all these above considerations and simple observations make me believe too that we are extremely close to being straight above target…
unfortunately for him, I am not really easy to bring off track 
that does not mean that I am certain that the higher roof is where the shots have been fired from, but given all the stalling tactics that have been deployed, they certainly delayed me making progress in the addition of ballistic trajectories to my kml files…
another remarkable thing I notice in several comments is that people assume and firmly believe that the outcome of whatever model or analysis has to be adored as if it is carved in stone, and they do not realize that these models are garbage in, garbage out, and that they only take into consideration the parameters that have been used in the model…
e.g., we now know that in the 3D CAD model, the roof shooter must have been shooting down to Trump.
looking at the ballistic trajectory for someone who would have been shooting from any of the vents below that roof, that means that if the rifle was zeroed at 100 yards, the barrel should have been pointing UP with a serious angle in order to reach Trump…
but if you look at the horizontal position of the American flag above Trump and that the historic weather data Imperial, PA Weather History | Weather Underground shows wind speeds around 7-8 mph around that time, which means that the wind drift was really significant…
a little less wind, and the bullet had pierced Trump’s head…
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fantastic work, thank you for sharing.
If I may pass you some clarifying inputs for the first 5 pages:
- 2024-07-08/2024-07-10/2024-07-12: It is worth mentioning, that the rally originally was planned to take place at the Butler Fairgrounds but was later switched to the Butler Farm show. The meeting place was also changed. I lined that out in a post.
Was This a LEO Failure or Something Worse? - #117 by sorey - 2024-07-12/2024-07-13_13:30: According to FBI Director Wray the rifle was originally bought by Crooks father but later legally sold to his son.
Thomas Crooks’ family had 14 guns in home, father legally sold gun to son: FBI Director Wray | Fox News
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Hi Daniel59,
See below picture of which you can clearly see the wound. The fact that Trump was facing down to the floor afterwards, all the blood dripped into his ear, which we can all see in this picture as well. The below doctor report confirms the injury of the Cartilaginous surface of the ear which is exaclty where the red arrow is, and you can also see the mentioned swelling.
What makes you think that he was not wounded?
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and also on this one: yes…
as I stated in one of my posts of yesterday, I think it is not an understatement to consider that a snake oil promoting judas goat has managed to get an authoritative position in this investigation such that all views that may lead to making progress get nuked, even before they even get at, e.g., Chris or his long-term core team members.
I really believe Chris and his core team are genuinely looking for the truth, but there are assets (term selected carefully) that filter what they get to see and pay attention to…
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Given
Trump’s long record of sitting in the front row of WWE Wrestling events and of engaging in some of the dramatic display of violence therein (which seldom causes as much actual injury as it first seems to), and given
Trump’s role as the lead in the television series “The Apprentice” for several years, and given
Trump’s obvious and long standing propensity for appearing “Bigger than Life” in public …
I am comfortable figuring that if Trump chose to act like a bullet had hit his ear, in response to the initial sonic “click” of that supersonic round passing within several feet of him, about 0.22 seconds before the louder bang/boom/report sound from the rifle that fired that round, then Trump would do a better job of acting that way than most of us.
For something this important to Trump, that he has mentally anticipated would happen in some way for decades, and that he knows is essential to his continued success, even his staying alive, I’m confident that he’d give it his all.
Given the 0.22 second delay between him hearing the supersonic round’s ‘click’ and his microphone recording the louder ‘report’ from the gun, he could even have, had he the reflexes of Cassius Clay/Mohammed Ali in his prime, started to react before the microphone recorded the louder sound. Trump is no doubt not that fast now, even if he ever was, but he could probably still come pretty close.
I am not yet able to tell the time of flight of the bullets that may have been fired from the different positions, but it is really hard to synchronize all the different steps up to the video frame level should it have been acted…
the timing of Trump showing pain and the reflex of reaching for his ear are very precisely synchronized with the close encounter with the first bullet…
the time of flight, the wind direction and the wind speed were such that the bullet grazed his ear…
a little less intense wind, and Trump had died…
such wind intensities cannot be hoped for while staging a rifle based assassination attempt…
a 55 grain bullet would have had about 1.9 inch wind drift at 150 yards…
I just selected whatever random .223 bullet, so do not pin me down on that detail, the 1.9 inch drift gives an indication of where such a bullet may have ended up with less wind…
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This really support my hypothesis about the event. But how well is the guy in the window documented? Is he seen in mutlitple videos?
And are the times you state exact?
Thanks, this is good information.
no offense for not knowing your hypothesis, but could you summarize briefly what your hypothesis about this event is?
I agree that he was certainly either wounded enough to break the skin and cause significant and rapid bleeding, or something very close to that.
However a key question I would ask is not IF he was wounded, but WHEN he was so wounded.
So far as I know, there exists ZERO evidence of an actual wound to his ear before he went down and under the Secret Service agent dog pile.
There might be (I’m a bit red-color blind, so I can’t personally vouch for this) evidence of a little blood on his fingers just after he takes his right hand back off his ear, but that could be a bit of stage blood or a real wound … I know of no way for me to know which at this time.
We have seen zero evidence of a significant ear wound before he hits the deck.
We only know that his ear looks like it was wounded from images taken after he stands back up again.
In short, yes, he may well have been wounded in the ear. But when, in that few second period, was he actually wounded, and by what means?
Given the incredible and powerful and easily anticipated importance of this detail … what wounded him when … I can well imagine him going to great lengths to come as close as he could to being 100% certain his ear was wounded, while coming as close as he could come to 0% risk of having his brains blown out. This detail had to be right, and Trump’s well known for being a perfectionist on those things he focuses on, which frequently involve appearing “Bigger than Life” to the public.
Given his talents, temperament, resources and laser focus on just this critical moment … this would have an easy peasy role for him to enact. (I almost wrote “this would have been a no-brainer” … but that would have been a poor choice of words.)
I don’t know … but I certainly wouldn’t bet a plug nickel you’re wrong regarding such intentional, covert, influence.
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I’d really appreciate if all peope here would provide a reference or a link to the sources of their photographs or documents. If anyone needs a crash course on how to do this …
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“legally sold” … sounds like the father needs shielding.
Hi thepythoniccow,
I don’t know if you are following Chris on YouTube, but he has explained to us how we follow this investigation. There are 3 zones, green, yellow and red.
Green being facts that we do not have any doubt. If some evidence shows the contrary, then the topic moves from green back to yellow.
Yellow is the information that needs to be investigated in such a way that it either passes to green or to red
Red are the topics that don’t have any evidence or are just baseless claims. In one of his YouTube videos he has placed your “Trump staged it” theory into the red zone. So, he does take notice of your topic, but it is up to you to bring evidence to get it out of the red zone. The burden is on you. He gave an example that if you would find a secret tape recording of Trump and his team that discuss this plot prior to the rally, or if you can find a photo of Trump with a blood capsule in his had, this would put it into the yellow zone. So, for the moment may we ask you to go look for your evidence first and let us concentrate on the yellow topics in the meantime?
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could be. Is there any kind of register where they note when a rifle is sold to a new owner?
If Wray’s statement is correct, then the rifle used in the shooting (assuming it was really THIS rifle) wasn’t his father’s anymore but Crooks’. Just wanted to point that out @rawroku for clarifying his document.
since the bodycam video with sound became available where the SWAT officer fired the 9th shot (and possibly 10th shot too), claims have been made that the 9th shot crippled the rifle of the man on the roof and debris from this rifle or the bullet or ricochet/shrapnel of this bullet) would have injured that man…
if that 9th bullet really damaged that rifle, I would have expected that damage to that rifle would have been reported right from the beginning on day 1 and that the pictures of that rifle on the roof would have shown something else than a normally structured rifle…
btw, the rifle was a 2013 DPMS A-15…
not the best or highest quality AR-15 clone available on the market, and given that it is over 10 years old, it may no longer have been in tiptop condition…