But, but … I thought that all the (rather too many) audio analyses I watched so far, as recorded at various locations, a half dozen or more, all of them, for all initial eight (3+5) shots, recorded the audible sound, the report, the explosive sound of gun powder being converted to hot gas really fast, which sound travels away from the fired gun at the speed of sound. Often the supersonic crack was not recorded, due to the microphone not being close enough to the path of a supersonic round, but the speed-of-sound gun powder exploding sound was there for the microphone to record, if it could.
Unless I’m suffering from (not so early) reading dementia, you’re stating that this explosion sound, which seems to be commonly called the “report”, “is not … audibly noticeable at all from that distance”. By “that distance” do you mean “over 140 or 150 yards”, the distance from the patsy (Crooks?) to Trump’s main microphone? Nah - I doubt you mean that, since practically every distance involved here is less than that.
so, the scenario from my perspective goes as follows:
the real shooter who took the first 3 shots at Trump used supersonic ammunition while shooting a suppressed rifle from the highest AGR building at the parking. the explosion and muzzle flash cannot be seen by anyone in the audience due to the suppressor, but the supersonic bullets still cause the audio registrations you are analyzing
the trajectory of the bullets fired by the man on the higher roof is very well aligned with the trajectory of the bullets should they have come from the man on the lower roof
after the first 3 shots were fired by the shooter on the higher roof, there are two possibillities:
either the man on the lower roof used his rifle and shot 5 rounds in almost full-auto mode (either using the jitter finger technique or with a hardware upgrade such that the 2013 DPMS A-15 could shoot in full-auto). the reason why only 5 rounds were fired in this mode is because the full-auto mode would have stopped after 5 round (which is unlikely) or because he had put only 5 cartridges in the magazine
the second option is that the man on the higher roof fired the 5 shots in rapid fire.
considering everything I know by now, the first option seems likely as a working hypothesis, but there is still something that does not feel right: the number of casualties does not match the scenario in which the man on the lower roof shot 5 rounds in quick succession…
so, here we come with an alternative scenario that takes these observations into account:
the first 3 shots were fired with a suppressed sniper or hunting rifle with supersonic ammunition as explained above
the man on the lower roof shot 5 rounds in full auto or with the jitter finger technique as explained above, but he fired them pointing in a random direction
the shooter from the high roof shot AFTER the first 3 shots he took with SUPERSONIC ammunition the rest of his shots with SUBSONIC ammunition…
this would explain why there are so many casualties with a reasonably close grouping:
bullet 1 grazed Trump’s ear, grazed or penetrated the railing of the right bleachers and ended up in the hydraulics of the JCB hydraulic lift that held up the speakers. the evidence video footage shows that the hydraulic lift was damaged after the 1st bullet was fired
bullet 1 or 2 injured David Dutch
bullets 2-3 or one of the subsequent bullets injured James Copenhaver
Chris assumes that bullet 6 killed Corey Comperatore
there was also a nephew of a congressman that got grazed in the neck by a bullet, but I do not know which bullet that was and where that man was positioned in the bleachers, but that man got medical attention
so we can reasonably assume that there were 5 human victims:
Trump
David Dutch
James Copenhaver
the nephew
Corey Comperatore
when looking at the two roofs, that is a reasonably close grouping
and this grouping is much more consistent with only 1 shooter (namely the one on the higher roof), than 2 different shooters of which one is a youngster that has been running over the roofs and who is being shouted at by the public and who has just been interrupted doing his business by a peeping police man over the roof edge…
hope this explanation helps clarifying your queries?
the distance between who I call the “real shooter” and Trump’s microphone (let’s make abstraction of Trump, Trump’s ear and his microphone and consider they are all at the same distance (the difference would be negligible given the total range we are talking about)) is about 236.34m = 258.5 yards= 775.41 ft:
when we consider the man on the roof (referred to as crooks on the image, even though I do not like mentioning this name, as we do not really know who died on that roof), we get a distance of 144.9m = 158.5 yards = 475.36 ft:
Other than my hypothesis (shared by almost no one else) that the first shot deliberately and actually did not nick Trump’s ear, I agree with your casualty count for the first three shots. I also agree that those first three shots were likely shot by someone more skilled with a rifle than myself, and more in the focused mind state of a trained sniper than the patsy (Crooks?) likely was at the time.
That the next rapidly fired five shots hit Dutch, Copenhaver, the nephew and Comperatore does not surprise me that much. Five rapidly fired shots into two bleachers, both packed with people, both in the almost identically same line of fire, one behind the other, will have a good chance of hitting several people. Any one of those bullets could nick a couple of people before coming to a rest.
shrapnel of the 1st bullet or ricochet off the railing of the right bleachers caused by the 1st bullet
or by the 2nd bullet
James Copenhaver was likely hit by bullet 2 or 3.
The nephew and Comperatore were likely hit by one of the 5 bullets that were fired in the burst of 5…
shooting such a relatively small grouping from the lower roof with an old gun without a bipod and in the uncomfortable position of lying on a roof and by a youngster who has been chased up seems unlikely to me…
Oops - I should have said 240 or 250 yards, not 140 or 150 yards. My mistake, though not significant to our present discussion.
How small a grouping are we talking - how wide an angle do those two overlapping (from AGR Bldg #6 angle) bleachers span?
Unless we position each of the casualties in a tighter group, in almost the same line of fire, closer than a “spray and pray” firing could hold, I don’t see this casualty count for shots 4-8 to be unlikely, even for a kid scared out of his mind.
under the assumption that the man on the lower roof fired the shots, the distance of the area where the victims were located is approximately shown with the red triangle.
the height of this triangle is 178 meters = 195 yards = 585 feet
its small base is 16 meters = 17.9 yards = 55 feet
the base can be smaller (2/3rd of the dimensions mentioned) as I guestimated the whole surface of the right bleachers:
if we assume that the shots were fired from the higher roof, we get these dimensions for the red triangle:
the height of this triangle is 274 meters = 300 yards = 900 feet
its small base is 16 meters = 17.9 yards = 55 feet
if you let me know which formula you want to apply to calculate these angles, I can add it to my tool with which I generate these kml files…
I’ll be ignoring you most of the time, but I reserve the right to send back the same tired answers to your same weak points. Trump was rattled and had been told “shooter is down”. It was the security detail’s job to ignore what Trump wanted to do and hustle him off the stage. They were brave but not as well trained as they should have been.
On 9/11/2001, Secret Service people physically picked up VP Dick Cheney and hauled him down to the bunker underneath the White House. So there’s your precedent of a guy that didn’t have common sense and a security detail that was doing its job.
There’s a lot of evidence. There just is no amount of evidence that would satisfy you. He could have had a 4K video taken of his ear three times every single day from 4 inches away and it wouldn’t satisfy you or your type. Why should he have to do that to try to satisfy Blue-Anons?
I agree that there is not enough physical evidence available to prove whether or not an actual bullet nicked Trump’s ear.
One has to look at larger issues to have an inclination which seems more likely.
Given some stock option trading before the 13th of July and given some likely inside intelligence that Trump’s team routinely gathers on the “other” team, it’s quite plausible that Trump’s team knew of the coming assassination attempt ahead of time.
Given Trump’s long standing association with the Kennedy sons and Nixon, he knew, deep in his bones, that being a President and going after certain Deep State interests was a deadly game.
Given that he plans on being President for another four years and that he’s really pissing off the Deep State with his resilience so far to nearly a decade of resilience to increasingly vicious attacks, he had to know that a killer head shot from a sniper was coming up soon on his “chart”, and that he absolutely had to take out the CIA/FBI/DOJ/Secret Service complex that has orchestrated such plots in the past. Either they go, or he goes. DC is not big enough for both of them.
Given Trump’s long standing enjoyment of WWE wrestling and substantial career as a TV series movie star, and given his “grand standing” temperament, he’s perfectly character cast to take on an assassination attempt head on, and dramatically turn it in his favor.
Given Trump’s long history of helping setup sting operations to go after Mafia criminals (helping Giuliani become “America’s Mayor”), that’s the sort of game that Trump plays, and plays to win.
Given how trivially easy, just involving a handful of people doing what they might well be inclined to do anyway, to turn that assassination attempt in his favor (basically just “persuade” the real assassin to miss, and his closest security agent to cut his ear under that dog pile), and given Trump has had decades to let such possibilities age like fine wine in his thoughts … it’s hard for me to imagine this going down any other way. Certainly this seems more likely to me that once in a million miracles or luck.
The BIG picture points clearly. The publicly available and reliable crime scene evidence will almost certainly never decide this question.
[quote=“SonjaX6, post:1057, topic:41297, username:sonjax6”]
… the security detail’s … were brave but not as well trained as they should have been.[/quote]
Absolutely. A core part of the way that the Deep State has long run such operations is to weaken the protectee’s security detail, both to make him easier to attack, and to leave open the “Let It Happen” incompetence excuse, for those conspiracy theory nut cases (such as myself) who are not satisfied with the “Lone Nut” shooter narrative.
The lead front line pre-crime and execution squad in such cases, the Secret Service, and the lead front line post-crime cleanup squad in such cases, the FBI, have been corrupted to their core since at least Nov 1963.
Throw in an ever changing mixed bag of true, false, obfuscated, self-contradictory, altered and just plain fraudulent “evidence”, and you can keep us conspiracy theorists occupied for a lifetime on such details. I’ve been open to such JFK details for over 60 years so far.
That is nothing but a psychological angle move. Applaud his illustrious character and intelligence and turn it into an argument in support of your storyline, which otherwise sits on a mountain of assumptions. If I’m putting myself into Trump’s shoes for a moment, with all the money and connection he has, I had to realize that I also had powerful enemies, who would love to find the fly in the ointment.
I’m not being sarcastic … I’m writing of how it looks to me.
Like others here, I benefit from good discussion with people of varying insights, talents and expertise. There are a number of fine such people here. However if that’s a one way street, with others benefiting me, but not myself benefiting others, that’s not fair.
That is a psychological angle, yes. There were several angles in my comment. That was not my only angle.
We only know that shots hit the right stand.
We don’t know whether the shots were intended to hit Trump.
Any actor could have easily faked that.
The timing doesn’t play a major role.
As long as Trump grabs his ear at some point during the first shots, the closest timed shot supposedly could have injured his ear.
It then doesn’t matter where that bullet goes afterward.
The second shooter knew exactly where Trump would stand and where he had to aim to create an imaginary trajectory that matched Crook’s point of view.
Very high accuracy was not necessary because no independent persons were allowed to investigate the crime scene anyway.
Trump had moved his head down about 4 inches when the third shot was heard.
That was not fast. A professional sniper should have hit him.
Real shots were fired, but we don’t know if Trump was really targeted.
I was thinking more along the lines of manipulating the accuracy so that Crooks would never have hit the intended target.
Or a manipulation that would have prevented him from being able to shoot at all.
Maybe, I think it’s more likely that the first 3 shots came from inside (building 6 or the two two-story buildings).
@rough_country_gypsy filmed the roof of the rear two-story building with his drone. If your theory is correct, there should be traces there.
Please show me photos in which you have circled these tracks.
Any rational person would seek protection if they were being shot at.
I can understand that Trump supporters see something special in him. All fanatics do.
For me, he is a normal person who also has a survival instinct.
Why should I trust low-resolution images rather than high-resolution images?
Even untrained people should have gotten Trump and themselves to safety based on their survival instincts. Human behavior that contradicts one’s survival instinct must either have been trained, or they knew there was no threat, or they were all very stupid, almost mentally handicapped.
Is there video footage of this?
All we know is that there was a liquid that looked like blood on his ear.
There would have been enough time to apply blood to his ear, about 40 seconds.
No one would have been able to see it because of the dog pile.
He could have simply taken a photo of his ear with the blood removed and published it.
But then perhaps everyone would have seen that there was nothing to see.
I am not a supporter of the Democrats.
But you seem to have chosen a side.
If you are a supporter of one side, you will never be able to see the big picture clearly.
Divide and rule. A tried and tested method that still works well.
yes, he inspected that roof on my request, and I am very thankful he did so!
I have been adding ballistic trajectories to my kml file generator. as soon as that is done, I can move on to additional inspections, including this roof.
I went through that video on a big screen already and will point to where I would have put my rifle if I had done so (I have a very solid alibi, so it was not me )
Chris Martenson begins this thread with such words as:
In other words, there’s a chance I’ve been played, and now we have to spend a bit of time looking in the places and directions they have been especially quiet about.
If the proper focus of this thread is primarily physics and geometry, then I am more often than not off topic. That focus was not obvious to me from Chris’ opening, but I’m just learning how things work here. Peak Prosperity has the best discussion of this event that I could find, and it’s a topic of considerable interest to me, which is why I came here. My natural home, projectavalon.net, where I have been an administrator since 2011, currently has fewer resources to investigate this event.
As Chris noted (if I am recalling correctly) in his opening comments with Bret Weinstein of Dark Horse, we have a valuable opportunity here to dig past the physics and geometry details that have often distracted previous such public investigations for essentially “forever”, and get to the deeper problems of our government and society, that this failed assassination attempt might further expose, while we still have time to do something about them.
Is there one of the other threads here on this forum, on this topic, that you would recommend to me in this case, or is it more likely that my (admittedly “odd”) perspective is unlikely to be useful on this forum? If that’s so, I should mostly listen and not interfere with the good work being done here.
If Trump and a couple of his key close security agents were essentially engaged in kayfabe, which I would not find surprising, then they knew there was no threat, or rather, that the next serious threat might be off camera, at the hospital or some such place.
If Trump’s condition was unknown when he left public view, we’d all be relying on public news and institutions to learn if he was dead or alive. I’d not want to be in that situation, if I were Trump. He would risk being yet another target of an assassination to survive the original attempt, but then die of causes forever suspicious, while out of sight.
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