So It's Back To First Principles

The answer is, “it depends.” Variables include barrel length, ambient brightness (day, dusk, night), brand and type of ammo, caliber, type/brand/design of muzzle device, variations in powder load from round-to-round, natural variations, etc.

Here’s a few internet pictures to demonstrate.

Daylight, 3 fast shots, M4/AR15 presumably 5.56 cal (similar to Crooks) situation. This is almost exactly what Crooks was using in terms of rifle, caliber, barrel length, flash hider. Notice, no muzzle flash or “smoke” as one other member clamors about.
pshootfastsm

At the other extreme, you can find hot loaded powders and/or shorter barrels, or other variables in the dark what will include an impressive “flash.” This is supposedly an AR15, appears to have a similar M4 birdcage milspec flash hider device. Usually an yellow/orange signature.
medium__0004_AR-15_Angled_0297

I’ve seen both ends of this spectrum and everything in between from no flash to bright flash.

I generally agree with this as being one of the most 2 plausible scenarios.

My belief is that if one comes from the seemingly undeniable position of MIHOP with significant inside assistance, then it’s implausible or unlikely they’d have placed all their bets on Crooks accomplishing the job. They’d most certainly have had a professional contingency, with Crooks as the disposable stooge. So a 2nd shooter is a almost certainty.

All the “how did Crooks do it,” and cover-up evidence points to an inside job.

One caveat I have to @howdoiknowthisinfo is that the 2nd professional shooter would have used the same caliber as Crooks, to maintain plausible deniability. But possibly/likely a different rifle and optic more suited for a longer shot. If two different calibers were recovered from victims, that would undermine the entire 1 shooter setup. The pro used a 5.56mm just like Crooks. Still somewhat problematic with the barrel rifling evidence unless the pro used a frangible bullet, perhaps. We do see one bullet “disintegrate” on the bleacher railing.

I think the tall roof is the best location for that professional for the following reasons:

  • Well concealed, walls on 2 sides, able to hide, easy access and exfiltration.
  • Total situational awareness and observation of law enforcement, Crooks getting into position, the crowd, and Trump.
  • Totally concealed from all LEO counter snipers. Both Hercules teams blocked by trees, the AGR team is facing the wrong direction, and the retaining pond snipers are obstructed by several obstacles and the distance is quite far as well (600 yards or something extreme).
  • A person in a white tyvex type suit with a white rifle would be almost invisible.
    Fire and flee, let Crooks fire his volley and all attention on him.

My only reservations thus far

  • Possible issues with sound sources and bullet arrival times, but it’s not compelling. Too many variables.
  • Possible 1st shot by Crooks on video but it’s such low quality it’s not entirely compelling.
  • Highly suspect 5, then 8, shell casing count on the roof.
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what would be the 2nd scenario that you consider plausible?

House Task Force Obtains ‘Gruesome Autopsy’ of Trump Rally Shooter Thomas Crooks House Task Force Obtains "Gruesome Autopsy" of Trump Rally Shooter Thomas Crooks | The Gateway Pundit | by Anthony Scott
How gruesome could it be? We have all seen the photos. Let’s see the report. What is gruesome is doing a search on entry and exit wounds to try to clarify (based on provided photos) which is which. I personally think one entry wound is to the back of the head. The wound looks like an exit but has the black/grey ring around it which is usually found with an entry. I think there may be one from the front also that knocked out the teeth. There has to be 2. You have the eye, back of the head, mouth and neck in pics and one bullet is not feasible for all 3 imo.



Here are some examples of real entry/exit:


After seeing all kinds of the examples I conclude that a sniper shot would not explode a head every time. I guess all of the ballistic heads shot by pros are not always accurate in every instance. I only saw exploded heads if it was a gun in the mouth suicide.

FYI Upon my searches, these professional make-up entry and exit wounds came up! Not too far fetched for me.



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In order of most probable:

  1. Tall rooftop, pro shooter, first 3 shots. This assumes the strong circumstantial evidence of an inside job and cover up. This would far be the best location for a professional. Well hidden, totally concealed from all counter snipers, no special “set up,” trajectory and situational awareness are perfect, escape is a breeze. Climb up well in advance, hide against the walls, observe, fire, exfiltrate.

  2. Crooks was a loner.


  1. Vents are a good location as well but the evidence is zero at this point, other than trajectory. We have a lot of odd behavior with the counter snipers in/around that AGR#6. But no small task to set up, and we don’t even know if any of those vents are even possible for a position.

  2. 2nd story window is too well observed and obvious, and the trajectory fails. I don’t think this is likely, might not even be possible.

  3. Window 3 is NOT POSSIBLE and should be ruled out.

3 Likes

Hello howdoIknow

Based upon what you say, I believe I understand where you are coming from. It seems clear to me though that my own approach to this problem is very different from your approach. Allow me to at least elaborate upon how I see things, and how I think you differ from me.

I know my own limitations. Both in terms of mathematics and computer programming. For this reason, the contribution that I am able to make here is indeed limited. Nevertheless, I do believe that I can produce meaningful information, that those far more advanced in these areas will be able to make use of.

If I may fantasise for a moment, and suppose that I was deeply knowledgeable of the technical aspects of calculus, and also computer programming, including firearms, then here is how I would attempt to solve the problem.

I would do my absolute best to determine the precise ground elevation points of both Trump’s podium and the bleachers, including the precise height at which the bullet - that is the first bullet - struck Donald Trump’s ear, which also went on to strike the bleachers. I would seek to determine the height values for both based upon some absolute standard. In addition to this, I would also want to know the distance along the ground between both points as accurately as possible.

With these two points spatially determined, I would then look at potential shooting positions e.g. the vents of building six, the rooftop of building six, and also the high building well behind where crooks was positioned.

This would allow me to have three points of contact for a theoretical bullet trajectory: the point at which the bullet left the barrel of the gun, the point at which it touched Donald Trump’s ear, and the point that it touched the bleachers to the left of Trump, producing the puff of smoke.

From this, one could determine a unique parabola connecting up the points for each of the various shooter positions.

With this in hand, I would then use the appropriate modelling software to generate the pathways of bullets in-flight i.e. their curvature, taking account of such things as muzzle velocity, grains/weight, and wind speeds/directions etc.

Generating many different ‘real world’ bullet paths, I would use precise mathematics to see if they would match the parabolas of the various shooting position scenarios, as detailed.

I would be under the impression that some of the parabolas associated with some of the proposed shooter positions would not match up with any real-world bullet trajectories, and therefore would be proven invalid. But that there should be a strong match to at least one of the shooting positions, with a very credible real-world bullet path, as modelled, strongly matching its parabola based upon the three key points that define the bullet’s journey: leaving the barrel of the gun, connecting Donald Trump’s ear, and connecting the bleachers.

This would be how I would seek to determine where the shooter was operating from - at least for the first three shots.

Now based upon what you say in your post HowdoIknow, although you agree that the first shot struck Donald Trump’s ear and then went on to strike the bleachers, you believe it is completely impossible to spatially determine these two points relative to one another.

As a result, you have proceeded to focus solely upon generating various bullet pathways from various shooting positions. The problem here though, as I see it, is that with your approach, you simply have nothing to test your trajectories against. There is no standard with which to establish success.

It seems to me that by tweaking the appropriate variables, you could generate any valid filing solution for any of the proposed shooter positions. And thus, by being able to prove everything, you are ultimately able to prove nothing.

Your last paragraph says it all. You will model things to see ‘where the bullet passes on its way,’ and if it ‘makes you happy,’ then great. But if it doesn’t, you will just tweak the variables… until you are happy.

I do not think that this is a route to success.

I do not tweak any variables…
there are two sets of bullets: 1-3 and 4-8.
what I am doing is the following:

  • I take a potential shooter’s position, e.g., crooks on lane 19 or 20 on the roof of AGR building 6
  • we know that a few points of interest were injured or damaged by the first 3 bullets: Trump’s ear, the railing of the right/south bleachers, David Dutch, James Copenhaver and the JCB hydraulic lift
  • so, we iterate for several bullet weights, muzzle velocities, wind speeds, etc, the bullet trajectories from that shooter’s position to the end point of each of these points of interest
  • if a combination of windspeed, bullet properties, muzzle velocity, etc match/hit the targets, then that combination is something that is likely to have been used during the attack
  • if there is no match/hit with a certain combination, the next one is tested, etc…

there is no cherry picking, no tweaking, etc…
I do not know how more exhaustive and impartial one can be than what I am doing…

the scenario you describe is very much similar to what I am doing…

you assume “there is nothing to test against”, but that is wrong: if the trajectories from whatever shooting position use similar parameters and hit the known targets, then it is a set of parameters that matches reality, and my approach is the most flexible and generic you can imagine, as opposed to the back tracing approach based on 2 or 3 points which are highly uncertain and for which many guesses must be made to make everything match to the preferred result from certain individuals

@brian60221 @sorey @redranamber @gfgftt5d0q

I’ve updated and added to my recognition aids and threw in my now complete AGR building and door map. Please let me know if you see any errors or find any new information. Thanks, all!

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Not sure if the DM system is working here, so please let me know if you want an account on the file-sharing thing I’m making. You can control your own area and keep uploading the latest versions of your research products.

It’s up to you. I am going to close my current Dropbox account and open a new so I can share my investigation material with family. I can do both, no problem.

I’m not sure how to use the DM feature, but I have recieved multiple DM here.

I made you an account. Please check your DMs.

Where do I find my DM’s?

I don’t know how to do that. Can i post the images here somehow?

Do you have a speech bubble icon in the upper right?

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On the desktop the button in the top upper right with your initial click on it and it’s there.

Is that a feature only subscribers have?

image

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What do you see when you click on that button.