Teal Swan: The Role Of Spiritual Resilience

This podcast requires a special introduction because it is reflective of a side of myself that I have often alluded to, but largely kept private until now. 

And that is my searching for personal insight, meaning, and deeper inner fulfillment.  I’ve been actively and intensively exploring this area for roughly 5 years.

Some might call this a spiritual questing, while others would call it inner tracking.  Either way, this part of my life involves building my emotional IQ and resilience.

It is perhaps the hardest, bravest,and most important work I’ve ever undertaken. It requires being willing to face my own deepest shadows, beliefs, and sources of grief.

In this interview with Teal Swan, a modern spiritual teacher and catalyst, I use this quote by Carl Jung:

“There is no coming to consciousness without pain. People will do anything, no matter how absurd, in order to avoid facing their own Soul.

One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious.”

More and more I am concerned with how individuals are going to face the painful awakening that is before us all as our earth’s ecosystems continue to decline and collapse. 

Our larger narrative of growth is being increasingly revealed as hopelessly wrong and misguided.  Our other narratives about fairness and justice are being proven utterly wrong on a daily basis by monetary printing and selective Justice Department actions and inactions.

When our narratives get shredded, either on a personal basis by some major loss such as being fired, getting divorced, or losing a close loved one, we either experience a major round of grief or we numb ourselves and shut our feelings down. 

If we dare to really experience and move through the grief, we have the chance to be transformed by it, to be renewed into the sacredness of life.  

But I am increasingly certain that our culture lacks the ability to really face and process such intense emotions and therefore is doing everything, no matter how absurd, to avoid the painful truth of our current predicament(s).   Which means that there’s a more painful set of moments awaiting us before we’ll collectively and finally face reality.

That’s the central thrust of this podcast, and my questing is both personally important and something I am doing because the world needs people to bravely wade into the waters of actual transformation. 

I am highly cognizant of just how dangerous and tricky these waters are.

I fully expect to lose some of you along the way, because this topic is simply too emotionally charged and we are not communicating face-to-face where there’s a chance to decipher and defuse complex interactions but via the internet where our humanness is reduced by the medium to a difficult flatness. 

Oh well, there’s not much we can do about that except (shameless plug alert) come to the Rowe seminar, or simply work at maintaining an open mind.

Others will be challenged and excited by this line of inquiry because they share the understanding that this inner transformation is really our only path to a better future. 

In my view, we’re not going to elect a savior, ever, it’s simply not possible. There’s no fixing this from the top down, and the outside in.  There are no outer laws that will ever be sufficient. 

 Our only salvation as a species will require us to each individually change first so that we can once again exist in balance with the greater world, returning to a relational (and regenerative) stance by turning away from our transactional (and extractive) practices.   We need to work from the inside out.

That is, our inner guidance on knowing the difference between right and wrong is the only thing upon which we can truly pin our hopes.  No, we don’t need more studies and rules and regulations to determine the right amount of neonicotinoid pesticide use to allow, we need farmers who would never dream of using a biocide on their fields because it is the wrong thing to do.  

We need personal integrity and that comes from within.

This is my deepest truth, the one I’ve been sitting with for a long while, wondering how and when to reveal it.  Well, here it comes.

And this brings me to the final and very important point I want to make.  I am going to ask you to put into practice your best and highest form of discernment as we wade into these waters.

Said simply, I want you to trust yourself and take from these podcasts and investigations what nuggets work for you and to then leave the rest behind.  You decide what works and what doesn’t.  I’m not going to find any one teacher, guide or source that everyone likes or agrees with.

The key word here is discernment.

My interview style is to let whomever I am interviewing say what they are going to say.  I feel no need to confront and try to change their views on the fly, but to hear them out and listen to what they have to say.  Usually I find something useful ion every guest even if it’s “hey, now I know how the opposition is thinking.”

This is my style.  I go forth and collect everything I can, winnow it through my utility filter, and then share it with you and put it to use in my own thinking and life.

So the invitation here is to receive this material with an open mind, taking what works for you in the here and now while leaving the rest.  Trust yourself to know what works for you. 

In closing, Peak Prosperity has always been about three things.  Knowing, doing and being.  All of the data we collect and present provides the context that allows us to know where we are in this story.  We then put that knowing into practice by doing things.  We build gardens and support our neighbors and reposition our portfolios. 

It is the beingness that is more openly on display now.  The thing that treebeard is always so eloquently writing about.  How do we want to be?  How do we find and offer our deepest gifts to the world?  How do we process the inevitable flood of emotions that accompany the loss of a guiding narrative? 

I don’t have all the answers to those questions, only my own years of experience and practice to offer to anyone that might find them useful and my own open ears ready to listen to those that can help me as I continue my life-long journey of growth, inner discovery and outer mastery.

I am honored to be able to be in relationship with each of you at this time, on this journey, doing this work.

So that’s it…have courage, practice discernment, trust yourself, and let’s create a world worth inheriting.

Click the play button below to listen to my interview with Teal Swan (51m:33s)

This is a companion discussion topic for the original entry at https://peakprosperity.com/teal-swan-the-role-of-spiritual-resilience/

When I heard the words “voluntary socialism”, I cringed a bit. Not because of any err on Teal's part, but because the words “socialism” and “capitalism” have been hijacked, manipulated and twisted so completely in our cultural discourse.
For me, a better word would be “responsibility”. We need to be responsible; to ourselves, to each other and perhaps most importantly to this beautiful gift on which we happen to live.

We need to act like guests.

It’s not mine, it’s not ours and it never was. It belongs to her.

…to listening to this podcast.  Been engaged in this part of the journey for some time now and it's the challenging/tricky/rewarding/essential piece, IMO.  Too late tonight to take it in but will be back soon…
May we all have the courage to undertake this work!  (Which never ends… <smile>)

Viva – Sager

Chris:  Thank you. The conversation made me feel like the first warm day in Spring when you open the windows and let the fresh air fill the house.

I don't have to post any more.  Yes indeed, meditation is not like walking on a Caribbean beach at sunset, its more like being locked in a closet with a maniac with a megaphone, thanks for having this interview.


Ah, if only inner growth were a "one and done" sort of a process.  

Alas, it is not.

So please keep posting.

I find that my inner progress follows a pattern like a slowly lifting spiral.  I keep revisiting the same ground as the spiral comes right back to where I started on the x axis, but I am in a new position on the y axis.  

Or perhaps it's like the tide coming in.  Successive waves seem to keep advancing and  retreating and over the same ground over and over.  However, later on we notice that the water is a lot higher than it used to be.

This line of inquiry is really important to me right now because I truly believe we are facing a deep existential crisis which boils down to the fact that humans had better start inhabiting this planet differently or we'll wreck it for ourselves.

From a very high perspective the earth will be fine.  It will recover.  give it 100,000 years, or a few million life will go on and the human presence will not even be detectable if we manage to snuff ourselves out.

So this is really a story about humans, and our free will, and how we are going to use our conscious abilities, each individually and then all of us collectively.

My hope for the future springs from the fact that even I, a person so invested in his brain for so long that I doubted I had any spiritual capacity at all, have managed to make astonishing transformations in my ability to be present and detach from my pre-programmed emotional reactions.  I still experience them, but they are no longer the "truth" they used to be.

Yes, even an old dog can learn new tricks.  :)

Within my individual existential crisis, I welcome this difficult path and conversation. I largely identify with going thru pain to gain a greater clarification of my consciousness and my challenges. Listening, I found myself feeling very emotional and full of grief for a variety of reasons. For the last 5 years I have found it impossible to monetize any parts of my experiences (except for traditional employment), as I am from the crowd that realizes how sensitive I am to the world today and I feel that one issue I can confront is returning some aspect of my experiences that have been captured by economics and returning them back to the land of the gift/sacred (Surprise this is very detrimental to financial capital, yet very encouraging to all the other forms of capital). On the spectrum I am from the younger crowd here at PP late 30's, young children full time job mortgage ect… So I have much skin left to leave in the game. Emotionally speaking I have found planning for retirement (cough/cough) to be so impossible to even consider because that jenga tower that will fall before I realize any gains/losses. That my only REAL option feels like removal of participation, and then buy do things that have actual returns, small home, large land, garden, bees, orchard as examples.
At the same time the vulnerability aspects are raging because our state of economics is becoming so parlous that keeping the house to see that future tree fruit ripen isn't a guarantee. So planting/planning potentially for others to come in and use or even disassemble is something that doesn't feel very nice. Yet I press on and confront these emotions, cause all other options are even more emotionally concerning. I don't like when I feel forced to place more emphasis and energy toward collecting $$$, it feels like we've completed that aspect of the story yet consequences persist. It has been difficult walking these lines at times where there is sooo much uncertainty that as I look into my emotional tool bag many of my tools are being transformed and reflecting this uncertainty. 

Also I forgot to add not having a large disposable income has encouraged a mind racing with creativity supported by my other forms of capital, community, time, spiritual, knowledge, health, cultural and living capital are exploding of the charts reflecting these realities. For example I just built a chicken containment fence from raw tree limbs, a few bag of cement and other pieces laying around the yard, the whole project cost less than $100 for 40 feet of fence. Now I can't imagine a finer physical representation of who and what I am becoming. Everyone I meet I keep saying under my breath, please be as weird as I am. Which encourages me to share with them just how weird that currently is. 

Please see my comments at the end.  

New post on MishTalk

California Cruises Towards $15 Hr Minimum Wage: Expect Budget Deficits, Higher Taxes, Job Losses

by mishgea

California governor Jerry Brown has proposed a $15 minimum wage by 2022. If the legislation passes, it will wreak havoc on city budgets, state budgets, businesses, and jobs.

Read more of this post

mishgea | March 28, 2016 9:30:03 at 9:30 AM | Categories:Economics | URL: http://wp.me/p1eX6j-9uN


Comment    See all comments

While I enjoyed certain parts of this dialog, I found myself feeling uncomfortable about it.
Something seemed a bit strange.

When I researched a bit more about Teal Swan, I found some things from her background that seemed very strange indeed. Just do a Google search…

I would take this interview with a very large grain of salt…

Hi Rosehip,

i am in a very similar situation; I very much resonate with what you said. Thanks! Are you in the UK?

Let me repeat what I wrote in the in intro to this podcast:

So the invitation here is to receive this material with an open mind, taking what works for you in the here and now while leaving the rest.  Trust yourself to know what works for you. 
If it doesn't work for you, or makes you uncomfortable, that's great.  Trust that and go with it.

I will note that it's pretty hard to delve into these spiritual and self-help waters without attracting at least a few of the sort of people that put you on a pedestal that you then inevitably disappoint.  I too have a variety of internet detractors with a wide range of motivations, most of them centering on me not validating their emotional responses.  Or jealousy.  Or whatever.

For example, over a year ago there was quite the kerfuffle on this site when Adam and I first began working with Robert Kiyosaki and his organization.  We had a few highly emotionally charged people level all sorts of charges against us, with the prime ones being that we/I were no longer in integrity because we were working with a man who promotes leveraged real estate deals and buying golf courses and such.  We were going to be corrupted by him and that meant our entire message of the Crash Course was no longer valid.

I will happily note that none of that happened, and instead I happen to own zero golf courses and apartment buildings while Robert is busy working on a book called Rich Spirit.  Such is life.

But none of that mattered or will matter to the people who were so full of anger at me for having violated their internal sense of who I should be.  Or not be.  And so you can find some pretty wild and awful things said about me too.

When cruising the internet for detractors and criticisms on the internet, just be aware that it's usually best to take those with a big grain of salt first.  Who are these people?  Do they actually know the subject well?  Do they use their real names and cite other real names when leveling charges or do they say things like "a person, who shall go unnamed, told me X about this person"?

I always consider the source.

I can tell you, from personal experience, I have never seen anyone be so open, honest and incredible while being in front of 400 people working one-on-one with individuals on very tricky subjects than Teal.  How she came to have that ability or whether someone thinks it's fake, does not detract from the fact that she's really amazing at working with people.  I trust myself to be able to recognize excellence.

But, at the end of the day, we each need to decide for ourselves what we let in, why, and practice our own discernment.  




Some years ago these words emerged from my pen.  The only thing I add now is that the "Reprogramming" is constantly changing.  And I am totally grateful to the Source for allowing me to attempt to co-create an intentional Community in Costa Rica: www.AwarenessCenters.com
Hope you enjoy his,  Ken


  1. Inherited genetics, plus  Childhood conditioning (socialization)  -believe that I am a person with an ego  -believe that the world is real as sensed through the five senses  -believe that God is the Judeo-Christian Father in the sky (heaven)  -believe in my religious training  -believe that I have free will.
  1. Aware of different cultural programming=     relativity of programming   
  2. Quantum Physics: I'm more space than solidity   
  3. Different religions with different beliefs     (each has THE truth!!) Contradictions abound.  Buddhists don't even believe in God.   
  4. Meditation; new emphasis--instead of From Without to Within,     now, From Within to Without (a la Zen)
  1. A Course in Miracles and Advaita Vedanta (Indian thought),1     both stressing NON-DUAL TEACHINGS.  
  2. The ego and the world are illusions.  Both of these are the dreamt.   
  3. Go beyond the CONCEPT of God     to the CONCEPTS of Consciousness or Source.  And even beyond ALL concepts     as they are just POINTERS.  For the Infinite cannot be comprehended!   
  4. Realize that there is only this body-mind organism     being used by the Dreamer for Its own design.   
  5. Wake up to ONENESS/UNICITY    (an impersonal awareness),    there are no objects only Subjectivity,2    with manifestation WITHIN Itself).   
  6. A New Species arising3 The Final Understanding is experienced.4 No free will! Just conditioned to believe you have free will.5 And Consciousness manifests Its will through     these body-mind organisms.  
  7. So Enlightenment and Endarkenment yield to Enlivenment.6 The opposites are reconciled     and the illusion as well as the Reality can be embraced.   
  8. Is this the culmination of the New Age Movement?


  1. See the literature listed in the Vision of the Point of Infinity--visitwww.NewAgePointofInfinity.com
  2. Ask the Awakened, by Wei Wu Wei.
  3. A New Earth: Awakening to Your Life's Purpose, by Eckhart Tolle.
  4. Your Head in The Tiger's Mouth: Talks in Bombay with Ramesh Balsekar, ed. by Blayne Bardo. "So all that happens is that Consciousness is witnessing whatever is happening among the objects It has created. And that wanting to know Itself is something that is created by Consciousness."
  5. "Nothing can happen unless it is God's will."
  6. The Laughing Jesus: Religious Lies and Gnostic Wisdom, by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy.

No UK for me Boise, Idaho is where Home is currently. 
I would love to hear about any experiences you'd like to share, or anything you willing to share about yourself. 


Thanks, Chris, Adam and team for the Teal Swan interview.
Good Going!!

Been visiting this site for a few years (with great interest), but HAD to register today just to post a supportive comment.  My family was already familiar with Teal Swan's work, so imagine our surprise when we visited Peak Prosperity today and saw her name.  Spiritual resilience + economic improvement are two favorite subjects of ours anyway.

Keep up the great work,



I fully welcome exploration here at PP of the existential level of our current situation.  I've accepted that we will create a world worth inheriting through some very deep reworking of our understandings and relationships with everything.  It's hard to capture in words how profound this shift is - or, to say it another way, how huge this opportunity is.  With a cultural narrative as untrue as ours, the unexplored territories are vast.  What will we discover when we become skilled enough to remain standing while telling the truth?  What will humans turn out to be?  How will this biosphere look to us when our hearts and eyes are clear of the mesh of lies that obscure them now? 
The truth about humans includes a horrifying load of deadly dysfunction. But what isn't noticed as easily is that this truth also includes our love and intelligence.  We are a brilliant species, which turns out is quite dangerous when we forget a foundational truth - that we are one with our surroundings, which we love. So yes, let's get existential on a regular basis.  Let's find out what we are actually made of.  It most certainly is NOT what we have absorbed from our culture.

There's also this:  pain alone does not cause transformation.  Hitting rock bottom isn't a guarantee of being able to find one's feet.  Pain can wake us up, grind down our lies, make us desperate enough  to try something new, true.  But it take resource to achieve a shift.  From somewhere must come the skills and knowledge-base of transformation. Examples:

  • Getting the distinction between feeling emotions and acting out/believing them.  Feeling emotions is painful, but safe.  Acting them out or believing them is less painful and very unsafe.

  • Knowing how to create a strong healing context before diving in.  Going where the pain is without finding the strength of your being - or that of a healing companion - first is asking for overwhelm, not healing.

  • Recognizing clear thinking as distinct from emotional distress masquerading as thinking.  Our intelligence is easily derailed by unacknowledged pain.  Then it "makes sense" to "think" and do the nastiest things.  A clear mind is qualitatively different than a mind in pain.  We can learn that difference.

  • The ability to be with an overwhelmed person without blocking, discounting or believing their distress.  This requires that we have done the same with our pain and know it is a safe process.

Healing/transforming the distressed human being requires a body of knowledge, creativity and relationship.  The points above barely touch the topic.  I see us as a species that has proven itself able to learn the skill set of transformation, but remains too distracted to make the shifts en masse. 

It is our development of these skills and their availability to the world that will determine how much good we humans can find within in hard times.  The pain of hard times will not cause transformation unless there is resource for that inner level work. 

We love the world.  I know it.  We exult in being human and all the superpowers that come with it.  I know it. We carry a formidable load of undigested pain and the profound confusions that come with.  But we can claim the love, joy and abilities that are also human NOW, and set ourselves to learn the skills of transformation.  Existential?  Intense?  Bring it.  We also love healing.

In those days we finally chose to walk like giants & hold the world in arms grown strong with love & there may be many things we forget in the days to come but this will not be one of them.  Brian Andreas

Over the last few months I've become much more aware of realizing people's brains work differently.  Growing up, at the age of 10, I remember wishing I would die, crying my eyes out and since then I've always struggled with bad (should I be so critical of them?) thoughts of committing suicide. Growing up, I also remember thinking that everyone else thought this way although I thought no one understood my specific circumstance and how I felt, I believed everyone lived with their own struggles and managed these thoughts. It was about 5 years ago that I opened up to someone and they told me they've never thought of that and it was as surprising to me to hear her response that it was to her hearing what I had said.  What I've been even more aware of over the last few months is that there are a lot of people who don't share the same emotional intelligence as I've been gifted (I see it more as a burden, but I'm trying to see the light). This provides me with a greater sense of relief when people say or do certain things.  It makes more sense to me now whereas before it would be a source of anger or frustration for me. I don't claim to have a high EQ and certainly don't believe to have a high IQ, I'm not sure where I stand on either and don't care. I am certain that we are each born with different ways of thinking and recently the true understanding of that has helped me be less critical and more patient, which to me is important for my own survival.
Before ego was mentioned in the podcast, that's what came to my mind. A series of events can change someone for better or worse and it would be great if people could see the role they play in the grand scheme of things instead of thinking they are worthy of some ultimate existence and sense of entitlement. The mindset of hierarchy needs to be saved for fiction IMO.  I mean, do we really have princes and princesses still? Is this necessary? Is it just me or should these terms be used only in fairytales. I don't know, the whole thing is strange to me and it's hard to wrap my head around it. I can't say for sure because I'm not in their shoes, but I feel like if I were to be born with that label, I'd drop it at this point. Would that be disrespectful? Possibly I don't know enough about the subject, but at first glance it seems outdated. 

I just had a shower.  I always start with warm water, but usually try to make it cold at least before I'm done.  We are so accustomed to certain ways of life, it's time to explore and have an open mind.  A cold shower doesn't have to feel uncomfortable, it can be refreshing and awakening. Give it a try!

I'd like to show my gratitude again for this site as a significant resource to my life and the people involved, which means the whole community.  Thank you and have fun for those going to Rowe; last year was one of the highlights of my life.

So being a naturally suspicious fellow, there are a few (mental) tests I give each new guru I see.

  1. are there "levels", "secrets", and ever-increasing amounts of money you need to pay to gain more knowledge?  Or, does the guru demand you turn over all your wealth?

  2. is there some physical compound where the inner circle resides?

  3. Does the guru (or their guru .org) sue people frequently?

  4. Do you end up learning techniques that help you achieve consciousness expansion on your own, or must you depend on the guru (or annointed sub-gurus) for any progress made?

  5. Does the guru keep strict control over who you can have in your life?

  6. Is sleep deprivation involved?  Outside contact discouraged?  Heavy peer pressure employed?

  7. Is kool-aid served as a refreshment at functions?

Ok, so I'm kidding about #7.  I too looked up Teal Swan and saw the unpleasant claims, but I'm not seeing #1-#6 show up, so I think she's probably all right.

She definitely has an interesting "origin story" though.

For what its worth, she has a similar message to others I respect.  As Chris says, you can tell a fair amount about someone by attending a workshop and seeing how they deal with people in real time.  And - if she's not demanding tribute, and Chris feels that her teachings have helped him make significant progress, proof is in the pudding…

I am deeply touched to see Chris moving towards a deeper integration of life, including an interest for spiritual questions and people that promote and support this process.
I am a little worried though.

 Having myself worked with people as an integrative medicine physician for 35 years, a have developed a strong BS meter.

My observation in listening to this talk is that Teal is far from integrated herself and playing a seduction game…

I would strongly encourage Chris to invite people that are part of a long tradition that monitor's their process and progression along the path, and are not self promoting.

The world abounds in self promoting gurus that are smart and seductive.

I would encourage your readers to exert discernment in choosing teachers.

There are many good ones.

I have met and been instructed by many.

I will mention one for those interested, who is very accessible and has followed the Buddhist path.

Here name is "Pema Chaudron". She has written several books. A good starter could be

"Start where you are" or "When things fall apart"

I have prescribed this book to many patients through the years.

Many have found great benefit from them.


The presenter tries to use logic without defining terms like "Capitalism" (let's call it Sophistry).   And then we have this http://thetruthaboutcameron.blogspot.pt/2015/10/the-complete-interview-of-teal-swans.html .  I cannot say which side is true but I got a strange feeling watching Swan that reminded me of the psychopath I had to deal with years ago (not a good memory).