Outside of the lockdown within China, covid-19 cases are accelerating across the globe.
The virus has truly jumped the defense line.
It's now a true pandemic, with countries all over the world reporting huge percent increases in the number of infected cases.
We already know it has reached epidemic status in Japan and South Korea. But overnight, new cases have been declared by the US, Italy, Iran, Lebanon, the UAE and Israel, among others.
And within China, reports of patient “re-infection” are starting. We’ve been talking about the adverse metabolic response a second covid-19 can cause.
Are we starting to see examples of that? Time will tell.
Meanwhile, the markets are begrudgingly waking up to the severe damage China’s broken supply chains are inflicting on world trade.
With the Princess passengers flown back to the USA apparently against CDC advice, the bureaucratic muddling in the unfolding of this pandemic seems to be a necessary groundwork for it to spread. This does not count all the travelers that have returned from China and other nearby countries since December of last year. And the CDC has yet to produce a consistent batch of good test kits in any number.
By mid-March the doubling will have happened twice if the 6-7 day time is correct. My hope is that by then the stalling and obfuscation will be overwhelmed by facts on the ground. It feels like we will repeat the example of Wuhan.
This is reaching critical mass. The media will have to start telling the truth once it sinks in that THEY themselves may actually get sick too.
It’s sad to see that the Peter-Principal also applies to the CDC and WHO.
There’s so much great, useful information being shared here at PP about the new coronavirus, aka Covid-2019, that its hard to keep up or dig through it all!
PP member dtrammel has voluntarily (heroically!) taken on the enormous task of compiling Covid-2019 comments by topic from literally hundreds of PP posts from 30+ threads from January 2020. These posts are organized by topic and date into “Megathreads” and housed under the “Forums” section of the PP site, which is located on the lower right of the screen on any PP page, just below the “Comments” section.
To find the Megathreads, from the “New Forum Topics” column click on “More” (upper right, immediately across from “New Forums Topics” heading). This will bring you to the Forums page. Click on the “Current News and Events” folder. Scroll down through the topics until you find “Coronavirus: [Topic] Megathread”. So far, dtrammel has compiled three threads, with others possible.
This is a great resource for new PP members wanting to do a “deep dive” into a particular topic of immediate concern to them. Several questions that new members have may be answered by previous posts now housed in the Megathreads.
The Coronavirus Megathreads are also a great resource for not-so-new PP members who want a quick and efficient way to revisit content of interest all in one place, rather than trying to find a specific post(s) among hundreds scattered throughout the site.
And last but not least: here’s a huge “Thank You!” to dtremmel for his extraordinary contributions of time and talent on behalf of the PP community!
PS: Now, if we could only upgrade the PP search/advance search function…(hint, hint, Admin).
Now you’re making me blush.
Honestly I’m not doing that big of a service in my mind. Its the people here with professional experience like Chris who look over the papers and data and tell those of us who don’t have a clue, what the real information is so we can make informed and knowledgeable decisions.
Its a great community here and its one I’m proud to be a member of, and help out in any small way I can.
Thanks dtrammel for all your hard work on the megathreads. I was just reading through and came across a comment by David Huang about reducing mucous congestion in your lungs during a period of infection.
This seems to be a pretty important subject with Corona Virus as victims are dying as a result of deep lung inflammation and the onset of opportunistic bacterial infection during the latter stages of the illness such that the most severe cases end up on oxygen and respirators.
Having spent many years in Africa and seen a number of friends and acquaintances die from HIV/AIDS I can tell you that what kills most of them in the end is respiratory failure.
This Corona Virus is obviously not HIV but a lung is still a lung and there are some very simple ways to cut excess phlegm buildup in order to give relief and sometimes prolong life.
I won’t discuss the medications here though. What I want to bring your attention to is such a simple solution that it defies comprehension why it’s not more widely discussed.
One if the easiest and fastest ways to reduce serious lung congestion (and especially when it is the kind where infection causes your body to produce thick mucous that is difficult to expel) is to consume extra water.
This is not your grandmothers advice. Hot teas, honey and garlic are not required for this to work. Just copious amounts of good old fashioned water.
That is what helps clear mucous out of an infected lung. I have seen this in action and no matter how childish or too simplistic it sounds it actually does work.
It is an idea based on sound research as well so keeping this one little idea in mind can actually help save your life if your lungs have become unusually congested to the point of difficulty in breathing.
I dug around and found an article that links a research paper. It was easy to locate and there are others. I guess my point here is that sometimes the power to start changing our own medical outcomes is as near as the kitchen taps. https://www.sciencenewsforstudents.org/article/coughing-phlegm-water-key
You are right Nairobi, there are real gems in the comments that people post then they get forgotten. I saw one person post a link to a government site that says you can clean and sanitize N95 masks with a soak in hydrogen peroxide, then a water rinse and air dry. I completely missed that.
When I get caught up to the current video, and get the health care and patient forms done (Tuesday-Wednesday), I’ll try and go back and collate the mega threads by specific subjects. That should give us a better idea of best practices. I’d really like to get a simple daily supplement regime figured out. Too many different suggestions at the moment, though I’ve settled on lots of Vitamin C, some D3, with a multi-vitamin and supplements of NAC and Zinc for now. I got the last bottle of elderberry tonic at the store last night, which will be if stuff gets bad.
I figure we have about 2 weeks before this stuff gets serious. Be nice to know what we should be doing with some certainty.
Good article, but I was struck by their finding that a salt water based mist only works while the nebulizer is running. As soon as it stops sending mist to the lungs, the additional water retreats from the mucus, and its now hard to cough up.
I wonder if a tent like chamber might be the solution. Something like a cool sauna, with very high humidity. A person could rest in it and cough up the mucus over a period of time, helping to free up the lungs of congestion. With a nebulizer mask you’d have to keep removing it to spit out the mucus.
You could rig one up with a tube tent and a humidifier.
I always get a hacking cough with stickie yellow mucus when I get the flu. Maybe I’ll consider this treatment to minimize that.
Thanks for the article. But it does say “Drinking more water won’t solve the problem. But there is already one method to make phlegm a little more watery. Patients can inhale concentrated salt through a device called a nebulizer (NEH-beu-lye-zur). Salt in the lungs yanks water out of the blood and delivers it to the dry mucus. The wetter mucus can then get hacked out. Now, Button notes, scientists understand just why the nebulizer works so well.
But its effects don’t last long. “As soon as it’s turned off, all the fluid is reabsorbed,” Button says.”
is that your experience?
Yes I thought that was curious too. But nebulizers would not be used by the average person. Someone else had written in an earlier thread that saline nebulizers were useful because they created an environment that was really unfriendly for bacteria trying to invade your lungs.
I think the key thing here though is to take whatever steps are necessary to minimize lung infections.
From everything I have been reading on this virus the one constant seems to be that once your body is weakened by COVID that bacterial infections take over in the lower respiratory tract where pneumona sets in and kills you.
To my way of thinking therefore we would want to be ready with aggressive action to reduce the bacterial invasions that accompany and follow this illness. Does that sound about right to you too?
I think the key thing here though is to take whatever steps are necessary to minimize lung infections.
From everything I have been reading on this virus the one constant seems to be that once your body is weakened by COVID that bacterial infections take over in the lower respiratory tract where pneumona sets in and kills you.
To my way of thinking therefore we would want to be ready with aggressive action to reduce the bacterial invasions that accompany and follow this illness. Does that sound about right to you too?
YES.
It seems to me that the critical tipping point is when the fluid begins to build up in the interface between your lungs alveoli and the blood vessel walls. Either from bacterial pneumonia or a cytokine storm of antibodies. Once that fluid begins to degrade the ability of your lungs to get oxygen to your body you are screwed.
Means you need to moderate your immune system at that point OR figure out how to get that fluid out of your lungs fast.
A supplement regime which first builds up your immune system to fight off the virus, then a second set of supplements which dampen the immune system might be the way to fight this from one side, then High saline content areosal humidity in an enclosed environment with expectorants to kick as much fluids out of the lungs from the other side could do it.
Maybe?
Let's see what the lab coated people here say...
We are about to shut down our entire civilization over something that kills relatively few. This is not Ebola. Not the Black Plague. For most people this is a sniffle and 3 sneezes. Yet our entire society shuts down - just from the FEAR of it. What will history say?
-Andy
Great! We are on the same page with this idea. Hopefully one of the medical people will comment since the point of greatest weakness seems to be our lungs. So that’s what I will concentrate on knowing full well I may have to get through an infection without medical help if this pandemic spins out if control.
Information is power brother Trammel!
Zerohedge reporting today that China claims they have 397 new Corona cases on the same day that South Korea announced 142 cases!
We are getting very close to discovering the truth about how virulent and dangerous this illness is as the shroud of lies out of China is torn down and exposed by actual facts in other countries.
South Korea is two months behind China with its infection growth but they are already posting very troubling numbers that should be indicating to us just how big a lie the Chinese have been telling all along.
At this rate they will be reporting MORE cases that the Chinese by next week. Scoff if you like but the joke might be on all those who sucked up the big fabrication and treated it like facts.
I have been following the data on this from the start. Yes - this virus is clearly VERY contagious - yet outside Wuhan the severity and death rates are LOW. Look at the ‘Princess’ ship. 624 cases - but only 27 severe. And of those - only a small fraction will die. We are about to shut down our entire cizilization over this thing. Why?
-Andy
Perhaps because the death rate isn’t the only ‘problem‘ Andy. Those who get severely ill but don’t die will have to live the rest of their lives with serious scarring in their lungs. If many people get sick at the same time, hospitals will be overwhelmed and the death rate will rise. And society will shut down anyway if a lot of people get sick at once. Do you really think governments would be considering such draconian measures if they didn’t believe the alternative would be worse?
Yet our entire society shuts down – just from the FEAR of it.
Pretty much, that is what we'll do. Human's are not really known for their ability to make difficult decisions rationally. This virus is not hitting the young hard, so it's not physically a danger to the human race. If our grand parents happen to be on the unfortunate side of this virus, well I certainly don't wish anything ill upon them, but this is just the nature of things. Your quality of you life should be more important then the quantity of life.
My vote:
* We keep the public fully educated (Like Chris has been doing)
* We do not put people in mandatory quarantines. The economic impact will cause more harm and the quarantine will ultimately not work for this virus.
* We do limit international travel to slow the spread.
* We reasonably prepare hospitals for what's coming.
* We reasonable prepare nursing homes the inevitable fatalities.
* We set priories on those who will get treated. If you are younger, you should get point in your favor. If you are expected to fully recover, you should get a point in your favor. If you have had a long history of medical complications over your life thus giving you a low probably of full recovery, then you probably should loose a point.
Unfortunately we have probably let the global economy get too large, too interconnected, and too over leveraged (too much debt). And not by a little on these fronts. I agree with Adam's call last week. This could trigger a complete civilization unraveling that will be very difficult to recover from.
-Travis
Just because someone posts some technique or herb or supplement they think might be helpful, don’t just go try it willy-nilly until you have researched it for yourself. Don’t be a Tide-Pod eating idiot.
The Internet is a great tool for research, use it.
Re: Salt water: Some pathogenic bacteria like to grow in saline conditions. Also, any water used to dilute must be sterile or at least clean. Folks in New Orleans using Netti pots with tap water developed deadly brain parasites. The nasal area is very close to your brain.
Re: Vitamin D is best taken with Vitamin K2 so as not to impact the bones.
More people die from stupidity than viruses. Don’t be one of them.
Thank you for posting useful comments.
