Food safety standards require the food to be served and maintained at specific temperatures to prevent bacterial growth (above a certain threshold - there’s always the stuff that even Kryptonite won’t affect, but it’s insignificant). These standards are generally the same and observed globally. Not running a steam table, I can’t quote specific temperatures, but I will say that they should at least be cleaning the non-food equipment regularly if not sterilizing it to a surgical standard. The trays are normally cleaned between servings.
These are multi-million dollar firms making good money. They are aware of the liability if they do something wrong (in house legal team, insurer, risk management team) and at try to avoid opportunistic lawsuits.
Having dealt with the local health ministry regarding such practices in an operating restaurant, I will say that it’s generally not an issue with healthy staff, a well-ventilated workspace and (generally) healthy patrons. Temperatures of refrigerators (and steam tables) are recorded and tracked (often for years). My understanding is that the cruise industry conforms to the HACCP standard as well as the health codes of the country under which flag it is sailing. (Family member works on ships, get lots of questions regarding ships and law since I have Internet and they are on a satellite connection.)
Cruise ships are also inspected. The fines are sometimes substantial for violations; more for recidivism. They’re also audited by their insurer and industry association(s).
Where you run into problems is when you have potentially ill staff, potentially ill patrons, zero clear guidelines for operating in these new conditions (can’t re-engineer the kitchen during operations) and you can’t replace sick staff who are hospitalized (discouraging reporting of sick employees who do not wish to be disloyal to their teammates or their employer upon whom their extended families depend on to eat in the home country!) Additionally, you may be running low on necessary supplies/equipment for disinfection and ‘stretching’ what you have given the unusual circumstances.
There’s an operations manual chapter for what to do if the ship is hijacked (has happened several times in the past few decades), but not if a global pandemic erupts (has not happened for at least a century) if I had to guess.
Here’s one thing that happens with the buffets. Inevitably, the handle of the serving implements winds up, sooner or later, accidentally touching the food. I complained to Princess about it in a letter since they could design implements and food stations so it wouldn’t happen with such regularity. I received a “lip service” type letter in response but noticed during a cruise the following year that the implements had longer handles although they still weren’t designed optimally. Plus, people are careless. They reach under the protective clear plastic covers and accidentally touch food with their hands in the process, they drop the handles in the food, they wash their hands in a perfunctory manner, they don’t use the hand sanitizer provided, they cough and sneeze and hack, etc. Plus, some ships are more strict about enforcing sanitation regulations than others and, in general, the level of enforcement discipline tends to decline as the cruise progresses.
I just thank God that both my wife and I felt that something didn’t feel quite right and cancelled a 32 day Asian cruise we had scheduled for May well before the corona virus became a news item. That being said, I still love cruises and travel. Travel expands your horizons as a human being and makes you realize that no matter where you are on the planet and who you meet, we all share a common heritage. For example, the impression I got from Russia and the Russian people was much different than the impression I had growing up during the Cold War of a supposedly evil country and people. Governments can certainly be evil but I’ve found that most people are pretty decent, especially one-on-one. Not only is it enjoyable and enrichening to visit other countries and experience their culture, cuisine, and countrymen but the people you meet on the ship, both passengers and crew, are another bonus. We’ve met people from all over the world, made friends with a number of them, and learn things from them that you’d never learn any other way except from meeting them personally. Travel tends to be a great unifier of people and its absence will tend to have the opposite effect at a time when unity is needed more than ever.
isjrb029, You are right: I “do not know Bill well enough to tell him to get out more or to open his eyes.” And honestly, I really can’t know whether he was having a crappy day today, or if he has a dismal view of people. Confession: I’m not clairvoyant! I’m reminded that there’s not a lot we can really “know” about anybody in an on-line, virtual environment. So I apologize: that was presumptuous of me. I’ll try to keep that in check.
You and BillL make a good point in that people have different ways of thinking. I agree! For the most part, that makes for interesting and expansive discussion for those posting on PP. This place would be pretty boring otherwise.
So, to the part about me being “one of these people who project so much knowledge,” in reference to BillL’s comment about “people here on this blog act like they are super informed and ahead of the curve.”
For the record, I’m not trying to project that I have so much knowledge or that I’m super-informed. Professionally, I’m a researcher and grant writer, so maybe my writing style and content are not to your liking. Sometimes, I do share my opinion and analysis–based on documentable research or personal experience–just like many, many other PP members do. (Maybe I should label it as “opinion” so there’s no confusion.) More often, I’m sharing links and sourced excerpts to articles, studies and videos that I think are of interest to the PP community. And lately I’ve tried to welcome the many new PP members and help them find their way around the site, just as others helped me when I first joined PP three years ago. I try to do my part to participate and contribute to this vibrant PP community that I learn so much from.
As an aside, I’ve been recuperating from a serious illness for the past few months, which has allowed me to do more research and interact with others here. It also just happened to coincide with the coronavirus outbreak. I’m definitely on the mend, so hopefully I can still make time for PP as I get back to “normal” life (whatever that is!) 
Thanks for the feedback, folks.
So as not to clutter up the discussion of this video, I’ve started a discussion of Routes Of Infection By Severity in the previous video thread of “Coronavirus: What We Can Say Publicly & What We Can’t” where we have been have some continuing talk on preparations, sanitation and PPE.
Please join the discussion there too.
Thanks for your very timely and thoughtful words of encouragement, Granny. You’ve definitely proved your “Grit” here more than a few times, so I really respect and appreciate your advice. Live and learn, right?
It was also nice to see the “thumbs-ups” on your post from others.
All the best,
Sparky1
When I recall Chernobyl it is with the memories of Russian incompetence and a sequence of errors that led to that very unfortunate disaster.
What followed though was an incredible sight of hundreds of workers selflessly struggling to encapsulate the damaged area with concrete and knowing full well their efforts might be rewarded with personal death sentence from radiation poisoning.
They were heroic.
But this tragedy in China is nothing like that. Everyone is suspicious. There are no good guys and there are no heroes. Just a lot of innocent victims locked inside their homes or incinerated in secret.
If this is China’s Chernobyl then why is everyone talking like they did about the mystery collapse of Building 7?
This is another 9-11
Hey Raj, the human brain isn’t really wired that way. We’re more worried about day to day hassles and confrontations than a hypothetical future scenario. Maybe this will turn out like Stephen King’s ‘The Stand’, but we don’t really know 100%, at least not like standing on the firing line looking at the rifle. Until then try to enjoy each day as much as possible and try to get to know your neighbor.
I think there’s some frustration out there and everyone’s just trying to figure this out. I’m sure you write good grants and I wish you luck but it’s also becoming more apparent that approximately 50% of the scientific literature currently borders on incomprehensible gobblydegook and is very often not reproducible. A lot of the data we’re trying to latch onto right now comes from non peer-reviewed sources and much of it is getting retracted or refuted. There’s alot of people (not necessarily on PP) that use science to clobber the regular guy over the head with. You see this in the climate change discussions where it’s often stated “the science is settled, you deplorable dummy”. Not it’s not, otherwise over 3,000 scientific papers wouldn’t have been written on it last year. Maybe the topic of gravity is more settled, and consequently we don’t have to write thousands of research papers on the topic anymore trying to explain it.
Mr. Curious said:
That’s bound to happen. In the heat of crisis people are rushing to share what they think they’ve learned but skipping formal peer review. In effect the whole world becomes their reviewers, and things will get revised or retracted in public view rather than in the quiet halls of academia.
Here are a couple of old posts by Mark Cochrane in the climate thread which I found helpful at the time, explaining the peer review process. Note especially what he has to say about the difference between “telling stories” vs “doing science”. Worth a read, and might explain some craziness!
https://peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/the-definitive-global-climate-change-aka-global-warming-thread-general-discussion-and-questions/page/264/#post-152933
https://peakprosperity.com/forum-topic/the-definitive-global-climate-change-aka-global-warming-thread-general-discussion-and-questions/page/265/#post-152945
BillL, you said, “Bank tellers “our age” hate this time of year at my bank. It is when single (no job) mothers dressed to the nine’s drag their 3-5 kids (to several men) in to cash their, “earned income tax credit” checks. Checks vary for $5-12K per mom.”
The anecdote you provided above is misleading and patently incorrect based on IRS tax guidelines for the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC). The credit is only available for working people with earned income/AGI of $55,052 or less during 2019 (depending on filing status and number of qualifying children). The maximum credit is $6,557 for workers with three or more qualifying children. The average EITC last year (2018 tax year) was $2,504.
See below for correct information summarized from the IRS (bold added. Source: https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/how-to-qualify-for-the-earned-income-tax-credit)
The EITC is a benefit for working people with low to moderate earned income from working for someone or from running or owning a business or farm and meet basic rules. Taxpayers must also meet additional rules for workers without a qualifying child or have a child that meets all four the qualifying child rules (i.e, relationship, age, residency, joint return). Tax year investment income must be $3,600 or less for the year. Social Security numbers are required for the taxpayers and any qualifying children.
The amount of EITC varies based on income, filing status and family size. Those who qualify can get a credit up to:
$529 with no qualifying children
$3,526 with one qualifying child
$5,828 with two qualifying children
$6,557 with three or more qualifying children
Last year, the average amount of EITC was $2,504.
Earned and Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) Limits (2019 Tax Year):
Single, Head of Household, or Widowed (Qualifying Child/Children)
$15,570 (0 children)
$41,094 (1 child)
$46,703 (2 children)
$50,162 (3 or more children)
Married Filing Jointly (Qualifying Child/Children)
$21,370 (0 children)
$46,884 (1 child)
$52,493 (2 children)
$55,952 (3 or more children)
(Source)
Maybe you or someone you know might find this information helpful.
Two prisons in Illinois are on lock-down, no visits or phone calls allowed. Inmates not allowed to leave their cells. No information being given to families. Could it be what it sounds like? How could it get in there?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=316IR-HwLdY&feature=youtu.be
It’s a good idea to review what is meant by peer review. It Isn’t we’ll understood. However, you links just take me to the beginning of the climate change thread. There are thousands of posts on that thread. If you know the specific posts, that would be helpful.
Thanx
There’s a lot to talk/complain about with the peer review process. maybe not best for this thread. In short though, the body of literature is becoming too big for the human brain to rationally absorb and a disturbingly high percentage of it is garbage. Even ‘good’ journals are not immune. Like other institutions in our society, we as scientists are at risk for a loss of confidence. I only brought this up because we’ve got to really do some critical thinking of the research that comes out right now. We’re openly stating that we should be critical of the media right now (see titles on recent topics) and rightly so, but in my opinion we’ve got analagous issues in science.
Spot on George. Mao didn’t care about starving a bunch of his people, why would Xi care about a bunch of his?
Exclusive: Chinese doctors say Wuhan coronavirus reinfection even deadlier
According to the message forwarded to Taiwan News, “It’s highly possible to get infected a second time. A few people recovered from the first time by their own immune system, but the meds they use are damaging their heart tissue, and when they get it the second time, the antibody doesn’t help but makes it worse, and they die a sudden death from heart failure.” https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3876197Massive stimulus of NT$60 billion in works for Taiwan post-coronavirus
https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3875879 ===============================U.S. Borrows for 30 Years at a Lower Cost Than Ever Before
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-poised-lowest-rate-ever-155052521.html =======================Germany's economy has flatlined. The coronavirus could push it into recession
https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/14/investing/premarket-stocks-trading/index.html ===============================Singapore PM says recession possible due to coronavirus outbreak
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-singapore-economy/singapore-pm-says-recession-possible-due-to-coronavirus-outbreak-straits-times-idUSKBN2080MM =============================='Coughing Like I Was Going to Die.' Here’s What It’s Like to Survive Coronavirus in Wuhan
The first four days of the illness were brutal. “I suffered from a high fever and pains that tortured every part of my body,” said Ye. He spent the days watching Japanese cartoons to distract from the discomfort. By the time his follow-up appointment at the hospital arrived four days later, the Wuhan government had locked down the city, barring anyone from leaving to stop the virus’ spread. Everything changed in an instant: roads were empty, prices for fresh fruit and vegetables surged, and residents were unsure if they were even allowed to leave their apartments. https://time.com/5783838/coronavirus-symptoms-wuhan-survivor/ ==============================Coronavirus Could Infect Two-Thirds of Globe, Research Shows
So says Ira Longini, an adviser to the World Health Organization who tracked studies of the virus’s transmissibility in China. His estimate implies that there could eventually be billions more infections than the current official tally of about 60,000. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-02-13/coronavirus-could-infect-two-thirds-of-globe-researcher-saysIt is ok for us to “agree to disagree.” Sorry to hear that your battling something. It happens to all of us…none of us are iron plated all the time.
Frankly, I like the interviews here. As I said, I have my own plan. Additional ideas are appreciated and I may or may not implement them.
I will tell you that them main reason that I go to any blog is for the commenters. I want to hear what real people like me have to say. Most times, I scan the headline and head directly for the comments. We can all read whatever we want on the web. There is a source for everything there. True or not? One can only judge for themselves.
Best wishes getting better.
The scientific method is born out of alchemy. The original use was to apply the scientific method to the entire body of knowledge referred to as “magic”.
Any phenomenon that could be reproduced was considered valid. Everything else was considered sorcery.
The complaint regarding the sheer volume published papers, of which many are considered garbage, appear to fall under the latter category of Sorcery. The original alchemists were not under pressure to “publish or perish”, but to produce actual reproducible results.
We can see this in the discussion about a racial preference for the virus: only one data point in the peer-reviewed study was Asian and that study had only eight participants. How can this be considered significant? It could be an aberration or one-off genetic fluke. The study reveals nothing. We are forced to put our faith in the scientific priesthood to protect us from Evil.
Mainstream science may have been turned into a religion, the possibility which we must confront, however uncomfortable.
It is for this reason that some people continue to reference studies which have not been peer-reviewed. Are they heretics, or are they right?
It is historical record that the Roman Catholic Church seized the Roman Empire. Politics and religion are intermingled throughout human history. Are current events indicating that we are at another such turning point in history? We much each decide for ourselves.
I am currently living in an Energy Star condo complex and wasn’t super concerned about contagion within the building because each unit has it’s own heat pump, as far as I’m aware, the air is not ever shared between units. However, recent reports of the possibility of it spreading by aerosol have me more concerned, because all of the heat pumps for the whole building are in one long row outside. The exhaust from one blows right into the next. This never made much sense to me even in terms of heating and cooling, because in the summer, it’s not much help to have the heat from one blow right into the next. But that’s how it’s set up. So I’m wondering whether anyone else is in a similar situation? Are there filters that can be installed? I know that regular furnaces have HEPA filters that can be installed to filter the air flowing through the system. I don’t see where on this system one could install a filter and haven’t ever heard of such a thing for heat pumps. Any info on this would be very much appreciated.
To Doug, Mr. Curious and others.
I did post the links to the exact posts of Mark’s that I wanted to share (that’s why there were two links), but it seems the forums software truncated them.
I will try figure it out and re-post later, hopefully tonight.