Damn it. I see chris’ better still image and I think you guys are right - damn it. I really wanted it to be a rifle… so then why the shady business with the handoff?
I’ve only heard Chris and people here call it shady lol
Well I mean if you watch the video about 33:45, you officer friendly talking on the phone and leaning it against the rail (not suspicious), but then you bearded guy walk back over, look around and then grab it. I agree that it totally looks homeboy is trying to buy a bag of weed
EDIT….
And WHY is dude wearing sunglasses as he exits the building at 7pm at night ? Is it really that bright in there or is he trying to hide his identity?
So what is the theory here, they’re hiding a murder weapon? What is suspicious to you, I don’t get it.
Is it your position that this was the same as an indoor firing range?
Again, false. He didn’t miss, he hit. And he was dead on but for a last moment movement and gust of wind. Stop with the false and misleading information.
You mean, the same theory as the owner of this PP forum, Dr. Martenson? There’s not “zero” evidence. There’s a lot of real and circumstantial evidence. Again, you’re spreading false information here.
Feel free to ignore the rest of my dialogue and stop responding to me with inane questions asked and answered and falsehoods like the ones quoted. It’s tiresome.
To me the 2nd shooter is confirmed with the time signature of the crack boom being different in the series of 5 shots verse the first series of 3 shots. Additionally the sound of shots (as heard from the podium) is also different for the second set of 5 shots in contrast to the first 3 shots.
However, what we are missing here is the frikken location of shooter #2. Can someone confirm the time signature location for me. I mean I think we are all pretty clear on the ~ 140 yards for the first 3 shots, but the second set of 5 are further away right? What’s the distance of those 5?
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It may be the current favorite Hypothesis, but nothing has been confirmed.
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This is a good thought. It seems like the snickbooms are only meaningful at Trump’s mic, but we should try to make the best use of them we can. I’ll go do some audio onset analysis and see if my measurements are the same as what other people have come up with.
One frustrating thing about this is that if the snickboom timings at Trump’s mic are, say, the same in shots 1-3, and the same in shots 4-8, but the two groups differ, we can say there are probably two shooters but still have little idea where they are, since it depends on the speed of the rounds.
The second burst of 5 shots would be 5 yards closer, assuming similar gun and ammo (first 3 .22 snick-boom, second 5 .213). However, 5.56/.223 ammo comes in bullet weights from 40 to 80 grains (55 is most common), so it’s possible for the first 3 shots to have been fired from a position in front of Crooks if the shooters used significantly different ammo. Based on my calculations, Crooks would have to have been shooting 75-77 grain ammo if he fired the burst of 5 shots. I still want to know what ammo he purchased and what was in his magazines.
A few other thoughts:
Snipers typically use something like .308, so it would be unlikely that the second shooter used one of the unattended(?) second floor rifles.
The official position is that crooks fired all 8 shots. If the plan was to use 2 shooters and make it look like Crooks fires all 8 shots, then the second shooter would most likely have used an AR-15 as well, and would not have used a suppressor (acoustics would have been too different).
The sound of shots recorded from the west side of the building (source4?) had a significant difference between the first 3 and the second 5, but on the Stewart video from the fence line the sound was more similar. This suggests to me that the first 3 could have come from just inside the building as many have speculated. The sound of those shots would be more muffled on the west side of the building vs. directly in front of the opening the shots were fired through.
In reviewing the video of those going in and out of building 6, maybe somebody could count the number of AR-15’s going in vs. the number coming out and see if they match.
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Someone else pointed out that the snick sounds recorded at Trump’s mic depend on the horizontal distance away from the mic. At 2300 to 2700 ft/sec, the supersonic shockwave is a cone with an angle of 25-30 degrees, so the bullet will be downrange of the mic when the shockwave hits the mic. We don’t know the exact path of all 8 shots, so that is another variable to consider.
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Is it your position that this was the same as an indoor firing range?
No, I’m telling you freshly burnt gunpowder smell is very noticeable indoors. Akin to lighting a cigarette.
Again, false. He didn’t miss, he hit. And he was dead on but for a last moment movement and gust of wind. Stop with the false and misleading information.
Okay let me walk you through my thought process so you can stop getting so mad at me over shit I say.
I’m saying he missed because Trump is alive. This was an assassination attempt. Grazing someone’s ear out 8 shots is missing the target. It would be like shooting at paper at the range and hitting the edge of the target. Yeah technically you registered a hit, but it’s meaningless.
Also for believing I’m spreading misinformation, can you show me where a gust of wind caused the bullet to miss? I’ve seen plenty of attempts at recreating this shot on YouTube now, no one missed their target that badly due to some wind lol
You mean, the same theory as the owner of this PP forum, Dr. Martenson? There’s not “zero” evidence. There’s a lot of real and circumstantial evidence. Again, you’re spreading false information here.
My opinion isn’t false information numbnuts…it’s my opinion. You can choose to ignore it, you know that right?
Feel free to ignore the rest of my dialogue and stop responding to me with inane questions asked and answered and falsehoods like the ones quoted. It’s tiresome.
Please learn what gunpowder smells like and stop wasting my time with indoor 2nd shooter bullshit theories.
Guy, I’ll repeat it for probably the 20th time on this forum. I bought my first AR15 about 25 years ago, and have owned many more since. I’ve fired untold high number of rounds thru many different AR15s. I own them in at least 3 calibers as well 223/556, 308, and 762 Tokarev (custom made). I qualified repeatedly expert and sharpshooter on the M4 many times, and went to war in OIF many times. I’m intimately familar with the platform. I have a similar history with all firearms, handguns, shotguns, rifles. I’ve been to a LOT of indoor and outdoor ranges, more than I can recite. I’ve shot unique guns most gun owners have never shot.
So with that out of the way, I know exactly what gun powder smells like, even the ammonia smell of corrosive ammo. Like what I shot on Sunday out at the range for 4 hours shooting 12 different guns, pistols, rifles, and shotguns.
Assuming the hypothesis that someone fired 3 rounds from a concealed position in the ceiling followed by someone else firing 8 rounds on the metal roof maybe 10 feet above him. There’s very little chance that a team of men clearing the building for threats would have had the presence of mind to smell these few gunshots and even if they did there’s almost zero chance they would have pinpointed that they came from a specific location inside versus just assuming they came from the rooftop where they’d also have assumed 8 rounds had been fired.
Again, these door kickers and room clearing guys, and even the cops afterwards, if they even smelled a faint smell of gunpowder, would almost certainly have assumed it was from the rooftop. These men are primarily there to find threats, not dust for evidence, pinpoint gun powder smells, etc. Notice these men cleared out and didn’t look for any evidence. That doesn’t mean a lack of evidence, it means they weren’t LOOKING for evidence. They were looking for threats.
We know I’m right. I’ll illuminate the behaviors of the rooftop door kickers. They moved Crooks’ rifle away, ziptied his hands, searched his pockets, and then stood guard. They didn’t pull out a market to circle the brass, they didn’t get down prone to check the angle of trajectory, they didn’t put down any tape to secure the area, they didn’t fingerprint him, they didn’t grab the gun serial number, they didn’t gather brass, they didn’t smell the rifle, etc. they literally secured the area and guarded it from threats. Zero detective work. Just door kicker work, of securing the area.
Furthermore, that does not even factor the possibility that a professional would use air fresheners to mask the smell. A few Glad air fresheners or a potent air spray would easily cover it.
You’ve attempted to use an analogy of a indoor gun range. I have bad news for you. Those see HUNDREDS of rounds daily. And the general smell would make it impossible to pinpoint which stall was the origin of a specific gun powder. You can generally smell gunpowder in the lobby of a gun shop from the gun range. Do you assume that a gun was fired in the lobby, or more likely it was fired in the gun range? Obviously you assume the gun range is the origin of the smell. So your analogy is bad on at least 3 levels.
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Guy, I’ll repeat it for probably the 20th time on this forum.
99% of the posts I’ve read from you have been replies directly to me, I’m not going around hunting down your posts.
So with that out of the way, I know exactly what gun powder smells like
Then you’d know it would be very easy to smell it inside of a building, like a cigarette.
Assuming the hypothesis that someone fired 3 rounds from a concealed position in the ceiling followed by someone else firing 8 rounds on the metal roof maybe 10 feet above him.
So now there were 11 total shots fired at Trump?? And I’m the one spreading misinformation? lol good lord have mercy
There’s very little chance that a team of men clearing the building for threats would have had the presence of mind to smell these few gunshots
Being around a bunch of sweaty dudes in gear, walking indoors and smelling freshly burnt gunpowder would definitely catch someone’s attention.
and even if they did there’s almost zero chance they would have pinpointed that they came from a specific location inside versus just assuming they came from the rooftop where they’d also have assumed 8 rounds had been fired.
I never said they would pinpoint anything, I just said they would notice the smell indoors lol
Again, these door kickers and room clearing guys, and even the cops afterwards, if they even smelled a faint smell of gunpowder, would almost certainly have assumed it was from the rooftop.
Somehow people who shoot guns wouldn’t be able to tell the difference between a faint smell coming from outside versus a strong smell coming from the inside
These men are primarily there to find threats, not dust for evidence, pinpoint gun powder smells, etc. Notice these men cleared out and didn’t look for any evidence. That doesn’t mean a lack of evidence, it means they weren’t LOOKING for evidence. They were looking for threats.
Right, they’re looking for threats. If they smelled freshly burnt gunpowder indoors they would have to assume there is a threat there…
We know I’m right. I’ll illuminate the behaviors of the rooftop door kickers. They moved Crooks’ rifle away, ziptied his hands, searched his pockets, and then stood guard. They didn’t pull out a market to circle the brass, they didn’t get down prone to check the angle of trajectory, they didn’t put down any tape to secure the area, they didn’t fingerprint him, they didn’t grab the gun serial number, they didn’t gather brass, they didn’t smell the rifle, etc. they literally secured the area and guarded it from threats. Zero detective work. Just door kicker work, of securing the area.
Yes doorkickers. If they smelled gunpowder approaching a room, or while inside of one, they would assume a threat is nearby since none of them fired their weapons.
Furthermore, that does not even factor the possibility that a professional would use air fresheners to mask the smell. A few Glad air fresheners or a potent air spray would easily cover it.
This professional of yours did everything masterfully, except the one part here was there for, which is hit the target clean.
You’ve attempted to use an analogy of a indoor gun range.
I just asked you if you’ve ever been to an in-door gun range before by yourself, because you’d be able to tell how strong freshly burnt gunpowder is inside.
I have bad news for you. Those see HUNDREDS of rounds daily. And the general smell would make it impossible to pinpoint which stall was the origin of a specific gun powder. You can generally smell gunpowder in the lobby of a gun shop from the gun range. Do you assume that a gun was fired in the lobby, or more likely it was fired in the gun range?
So if the people assigned to clear rooms smelled gunpowder indoors, they would obviously get suspicious and report that to someone. We had a cop anonymously come forward to tell us one of his buddies shot at Crooks and missed him, you don’t think someone would have gone to the media and said “when we were clearing rooms inside of AGR Building #6, I swear there was a smell of burnt gunpowder in one of the rooms”
So your analogy is bad on at least 3 levels.
You could just ignore it next time and move on with your day.
I just noticed that apparently we do have a name for the sniper who left early - Jason Woods (https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/10/politics/snipers-detail-breakdowns-trump-assassination-attempt-invs/index.html).
My question remains, however: besides the text message saying he was leaving, what proof do we have that he actually left at that time? And why do we have that text message at all? Why was that available/leaked very early on? Misdirection?
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Oi Vey. 8 shots my friend, EIGHT. Where did you learn math.
Theory is 3 + 5.
From the perspective of everyone on the ground, the assumption would have been 8 by Crooks.
Is this truly this difficult??
Much like the 20 law enforcement agents refusing to look on the roof to figure this out, it’s as though you are purposefully trying to be obstinate and not look on the roof or solve the problem.
Pretend you’re on the QRF team. You’re hyped up. A assassin just shot what YOU BELIEVE was about 8 rounds at Trump and into the crowd, then “threat down” on the roof. But then you get a call, suspicious person seen in a window in AGR#6. You and your boys bust in there and run thru the building clearing it of threats. This is fast, kinetic operation. Then you move on to more buildings looking for possible threats.
IF you smelled gun powder, it would be reasonable to believe it was from the 8 rounds you BELIEVE YOU HEARD fired from the roof. You observe NO EVIDENCE someone shot from the interior of the building - e.g. no broken or open windows. You’d have zero reason to believe, moments after the shooting, shots came from a concealed position in a snipers nest above the drop ceiling. These guys are hired for bravery and brawn, not detective skills and investigative techniques. You certainly aren’t there to theorize about hidden locations above the ceiling, outward facing vents (NONE of them are seen outside inspecting the vents, it should be noted).
I’m stating, clearly, if you stepped into a room and smelled gun powder and saw no obvious threats or evidence, but believed there were 8 shots 10’ outside, you’d very reasonably believe the smell came from outside. Same is true for cigarettes smoke. If you walked into a room and smelled smoke, but there was no evidence of smoking in the room to the point of reasonable conclusion it was “impossible,” but you knew a person was smoking outside, you could conclude it drifted inside.
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Oi Vey. 8 shots my friend, EIGHT. Where did you learn math.
Here this is what you said
Assuming the hypothesis that someone fired 3 rounds from a concealed position in the ceiling followed by someone else firing 8 rounds on the metal roof maybe 10 feet above him.
3 from concealed position
plus
8 rounds on the metal roof
equals
11 total shots
Theory is 3 + 5.
From the perspective of everyone on the ground, the assumption would have been 8 by Crooks.
Math ain’t mathing son. Plus your theory, as I quoted above word-for-word of what you said, we’ll go over it one more time
Assuming the hypothesis that someone fired 3 rounds from a concealed position in the ceiling followed by someone else firing 8 rounds on the metal roof maybe 10 feet above him.
3 from concealed position plus 8 from someone else firing from the roof. that’s 11 total rounds flying at Trump’s direction.
Is this truly this difficult??
It is when you can’t decide what bullshit you’re going to gaslight me with.
Much like the 20 law enforcement agents refusing to look on the roof to figure this out, it’s as though you are purposefully trying to be obstinate and not look on the roof or solve the problem.
Well yeah we need to know what the command center was doing and why they couldn’t relay the message to not only look at the roof, but to begin moving towards the last seen location (cop who climbed the wall)
Pretend you’re on the QRF team. You’re hyped up. A assassin just shot what YOU BELIEVE was about 8 rounds at Trump and into the crowd, then “threat down” on the roof. But then you get a call, suspicious person seen in a window in AGR#6. You and your boys bust in there and run thru the building clearing it of threats. This is fast, kinetic operation. Then you move on to more buildings looking for possible threats.
Being around 4-5 sweaty dudes I’d definitely notice freshly burnt gunpowder inside of a room.
IF you smelled gun powder, it would be reasonable to believe it was from the 8 rounds you BELIEVE YOU HEARD fired from the roof. You observe NO EVIDENCE someone shot from the interior of the building - e.g. no broken or open windows. You’d have zero reason to believe, moments after the shooting, shots came from a concealed position in a snipers nest above the drop ceiling. These guys are hired for bravery and brawn, not detective skills and investigative techniques. You certainly aren’t there to theorize about hidden locations above the ceiling, outward facing vents (NONE of them are seen outside inspecting the vents, it should be noted).
I guess I’d just like to give trained people some benefit of the doubt and assume they would at least have the “brains” to notice the smell of freshly burnt gunpowder inside of the rooms they were clearing.
I’m stating, clearly, if you stepped into a room and smelled gun powder and saw no obvious threats or evidence, but believed there were 8 shots 10’ outside, you’d very reasonably believe the smell came from outside. Same is true for cigarettes smoke. If you walked into a room and smelled smoke, but there was no evidence of smoking in the room to the point of reasonable conclusion it was “impossible,” but you knew a person was smoking outside, you could conclude it drifted inside.
Actually quite the opposite, that’s why I brought up the cigarette example. The smell would be so strong inside that it would make me very suspicious. There is a difference between the “potency” of a smell coming from outside versus freshly burnt smell from the inside. At least that’s been my personal experience, idk about you I guess.
Nah, I’m done corresponding with you because in prior posts you are deceptive and you continually, as in this one, just want to hold feet to the fire and be obstinant and refuse to engage in dialogue. It is OBVIOUS what I meant when I said 3 shots but the guys on the ground thinking 8 on the roof. It’s not 11. Nowhere has it ever been 11. So that’s intentionally obstinant, like the cops running around NOT looking at the roof when everyone is yelling, “There’s a man with a gun on the roof,” and the cops are looking at the parking lot, the trees, the grass… That’s the equivalent of engaging with you so for my sanity and time saving, I’m done engaging with you. It’s pointless. You refuse to look at evidence, continue to bend the truth (claiming the sniper missed Trump, claiming the sounds of the gunshots are the same, etc.), and loads of other deception, twisting my words and position when it has been clear, etc. Bye.
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Didn’t Dave Stewart report hearing on the radio something about “breaching” the building? This would imply using force to bypass, for example, an interior locked door.
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Maybe the reason that GN was so eager to get back into the building ahead of the other people (as seen on the cop car dash cam) was to “help” lead the room checking operation. “Yes sir, I just checked that room - all clear there …”
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