Chris engages in a conversation with Matthias Desmet at the Brownstone conference, discussing the concept of mass formation and its implications on society. They explore the irrationality of human behavior, the dangers of totalitarianism, and the role of rationality in understanding life. The discussion delves into how mass formation can lead to societal control and the loss of individual freedom, emphasizing the importance of ethical principles and truth in countering these trends.
Mass Formation and Totalitarianism
Matthias Desmet explains mass formation as a psychological phenomenon where a significant portion of the population buys into a narrative, often spread by mass media, despite its absurdity. This leads to a totalitarian state where individuals lose their rationality and become intolerant of dissenting voices. The conversation highlights the dangers of this mindset, drawing parallels with historical events like the corona crisis, where rationality was overshadowed by irrational beliefs.
The Illusion of Rationality
Chris and Matthias discuss the misconception that humans are purely rational beings. Matthias argues that life cannot be fully understood through rationality alone, as it often leads to irrationality and absurd beliefs. He emphasizes the importance of ethical principles as guiding forces in society, suggesting that the pursuit of perfect rational knowledge can result in the destruction of human essence and the soul.
Key Data
30% of people fall for mass formation, while 40-50% are undecided, and a smaller percentage do not fall for it.
Out of 248 military conflicts between WWII and 2000, 201 were artificially provoked by the CIA.
Predictions
The technocratic system, including digital coins and IDs, will be imposed on society, leading to increased control and surveillance.
Mass formation will continue to be manipulated through propaganda, potentially lasting for decades.
Implications
Individuals may lose their freedom and become part of a totalitarian system if mass formation persists.
Society may experience increased dehumanization and loss of ethical principles.
People may become disconnected from their true selves and lose their sense of individuality.
Recommendations
Focus on ethical principles and sincerity to counter manipulation and maintain humanity.
Stay loyal to truth and articulate personal beliefs to resist mass formation.
Engage in authentic and sincere communication to influence positive change in society.
I’m just 24min in, but this is an excellent conversation. I would throw in my 2 cents:
A deterministic universe
The mechanistic view of the world permits one to deny free will, and thereby responsibility or a sense of shame. A deterministic world allows one to engage in the most terrible acts and to justify it as “it was always going to turn out this way”. In addition, it allows one to abuse and murder hundreds of millions of people and justify it on the basis that they’re just chemical processes that possess the illusion of free will. In the end, it’s all in the service of escaping guilt and responsibility.
The uncertainty
I follow Max Igan (pen name) at The Crowhouse and he gets into the spirituality and ethics a fair bit. I can’t say I agree with all of it, but one of his catchphrases is (paraphrasing) “Gaze into eternity and do not flinch/fear”. The uncertainty is all the space wherein free will can express itself… and the space is large. My own spiritual exploration expressed it like swimming in a vast ocean. If you have all the best sensors in the world you can maybe see 200m below the water, but there are so many mysterious things living and expressing in the other 8+ kilometers of ocean we have on Earth. Existence, outside of explicit human awareness, is similar, I have found. We’re a part of it, and should be comfortable swimming in its deep oceans if we are to be meaningful participants. The deterministic alternative is to hide away in a comfortable cave while the wonders of existence reveal themselves outside. Such a choice is a closed system… it will result in total death.
(I didn’t expect to be first to write out a reply. Thanks for bringing excellent ideas to your audience, as ever, Chris!)
Example how ridiculous irrational Arguments in a mass formation can be!
This is our new Bundeskanzler he will be elected in February.
In order to be elected, he tells und that as soon as he will be elected he will:
Give an ultimatum to Putin. If he does not stop attacking civil ukrain structurs in 24oures Germany will attack hard land of Russia with German missiles.
If you ask yourself why he tells us that before the election? Or why Goebels asked the Germans “Wollt Ihr den totalen Kieg??? … “
My personal more simpel answer follows
One essential feature of the complex environment we are living is:
The Butterfly – Effect: a very small action can cause an unpredictable very huge difference in outcome.
Every human acting in this environment has the power to cause unpredictable very huge difference in outcome in this system.
If some one decides to act, he may cause unpredictable very huge difference in outcome in a complex system.
In a free society you can not just take away this power of the individual.
If the individual decides to act he has this power.
Per definition in a free society the only way to gain Power in a complex enviroment is :
1 to convince other people to act the same way
2 Demoralize the other people not to use their power
3 to lock down the rest of the people ( that is the state we are in now / use of totaliterian methodes)
März is using No. 2 as Goebels did an all Satanist do
That’s all … live is of course much more than rational.
I fully agree to your conversation
I understood it is easy in german politics to talk tough as they all know there is huge likelyhood it will be stuck in bureaucracy and thus you dont get responsibility to actually do it. It is circular process.
Just I dont get why oppose AfD by this logic
Perhaps exactly this, they could do something, not just talk.
It is only the believe that we are powerless that makes us powerless!
It is our belief in the power of the powerful that makes them powerful!
It is rational to recognize their power …… but ….
Our behavior is irrational because we are not aware of the rules in a complex environment !
I daresay “they” want to keep us from becoming aware of the rules in a complex environment.
Anything that gives power to the little people is just tinfoil hattery/ridiculed by “science” that “they” control. Its not an accident.
The “placebo effect” represents the power of a person’s own intent on curing themselves of whatever problem they have. Its so powerful “they” had to construct an “RCT” structure in order to eliminate it - rather than, say, training it up and teaching people how to heal themselves.
Your Discussion made clear:
The main problem we have is most people do not feel comfortable unsing the power the have in this complex environment.
They want it easy and not hard!
And so some things are made easy and others hard… by the people who have already absorbed much power in order to absorb mor power.
This is why it is most important and rational to use your power regardless how powerful you think your opponent is.
He is powerful because you believe in his power and because you renounce to use your power!
This is why they are able to build a prison for you.
The know this and this is why they will finally kill you!
Rationality in a complex environment is a very special different kind of rationality ….
Most people do not know the difference complicated and complex. People do not know the different rules and behaviour in this totally different environments.
What they think is rational fits to a complicated environment. The whole education is targeted to learn know to do complicated thinks to invent create service machine’s … complicated things … to be useful in the workforce.
Nothing has changed since the middle-age:
You keep them dump … I keep them poor
Because we are kept so dump it must hurt so much until People will react.
And this is why your headline is 100% applicable.
And your work is so important for all of us! And met a nerve here !
I think this is the most important takeaway…PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO BE FREE.
And i think that is the percentage that needs examining.
My guess is that 80 percent of people do not want to be free…they want to be taken care of, and be a member of the group,
About 5 percent or less of us want freedom. We are the nails that stick up and often get hammered down. The rest of us are psycopaths, who will pretend to be one of the tribe…or a rebel…and will use their abilities to conquer the majority of us and rule.
Very interesting, thanks so much for this talk. I’ll listen at least one more time to extract all little gems that were sprinkled around.
Mattias has a series of workshops scheduled for early 2025 in the Netherlands and Belgium. The topic is “The art of speaking freely” and I got a confirmed seat. I’ll write a few posts on it when in progress.
People do not refuse freedom by nature!
Our whole society and educational System is based on the principles of a complicated Systems! Most People assume that the complicated rational is the only one!
Rationality or rational behaviour in a complex system is completely ignored in our society. People think that rationality in complex Systems does not exist. The more educated people are the mor they refuse to think in a rational – complex way! Nicolas Nassim Talep is someone who did excellent work in his book “antifragility” on the theme of “rational behaviour in a complex systems”
“Most people live in the world of appearances.” So succinctly capturing such an important phenomenon of our time, and potentially all time. People would rather have sex with a goat if nobody finds out that they did than not have sex with a goat but everybody thinks that they did. And this failure mode of collectives is supercharged in the era of social media.
Chris’s recommendations from this interview about valuing truth and speaking honestly, and now your comment telling us about Mattias’s upcoming workshops on “The Art of Speaking Freely” remind me of Brad Blanton and his book Radical Honesty.
Anyone remember him? He was a huge influence on me back in the late 90’s.
I believe in the power of truth telling to transform, in perhaps irrational ways, difficult situations and relationships.
Yes, please. Let us know how you experience this workshop, Jaap
Chris, fascinating discussion with Matthias. Thanks.
To your point about the flaws of philosophical Materialism and the implications of the double slit experiment, there is an alternative worldview that has a lot going for it. Here’s a good summary:
