The very best immunity is natural immunity. That comes to us from Israeli data which is complete enough to draw real conclusions from. The vaccines offer varying degrees of protection from hospitalization and death that are much improved as compared to the unvaccinated in the over 50 crowd. Under 50? The data is less clear but the good news is that there really aren’t any hospitalizations or deaths involved. The numbers are so small as to be best rounded down to zero.
So the good news is that the Delta variant is stacking up to be far less deadly than the prior variants. The bad news is that“immune escape” is really very much on the table. It hasn’t happened yet(that we know of) but the odds are stacking up in its favor as more and more vaccinated people are becoming infected with SARS2 despite being fully vaccinated. Dr Geert Vanden Bossche’s hypothesis is now an‘open secret’ as it is now part of the risk factors listed by the UK heath authorities.
Important question - after infection, natural immunity for how long? Seams strange to even mention it if the timeframe is unknown?
a week, 2 months, 1 year?
I don’t think we really completely know but…
"While antibody levels in the blood of people who had previous infections did drop quickly in the first few months before mostly leveling off, some antibodies were detectable even 11 months after infection. Researchers also found antibody-producing cells specifically targeting SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, in 15 of the bone marrow samples. The cells were also found in all five of the follow-up samples given four months later. "
“Last fall, there were reports that antibodies wane quickly after infection with the virus that causes COVID-19, and mainstream media interpreted that to mean that immunity was not long-lived,” Ali Ellebedy, PhD., an associate professor of pathology and immunology of medicine and of molecular microbiology, and senior author said in a news release. “But that’s a misinterpretation of the data. It’s normal for antibody levels to go down after acute infection, but they don’t go down to zero; they plateau. Here, we found antibody-producing cells in people 11 months after first symptoms. These cells will live and produce antibodies for the rest of people’s lives. That’s strong evidence for long-lasting immunity.” https://www.foxnews.com/health/mild-coronavirus-infection-lasting-antibody-protection-research
I’ll take the natural, more complete immuntiy via nature
As per usual, the data rate is too high for someone who thinks intuitively.
When this virus first raised it’s head, I ran around with my hair on fire. “This is it!”, I thought. “This is what Dr. David Jacob’s Hubrids called The Change”.
They are very protective of what they call “The New”. (The new species). They are very proud of them. The New have a prized Human component in their makeup.
What? A prized human component? From the Ape? What could we really offer?
Now I get it. They had anticipated that everybody would go rushing off in fear to Muster Points to get their dose of whatever is in the vial; because that is what they would have done.
But we didn’t. Only a certain percentage complied. And that there fact is our contribution. We think differently. That attribute is what they harvested.
However, their plan that they are dedicated to, calls for control of our institutions, and that they excel at.
This is a clear RICO (Racketeering) case. In the old days our immune systems, (CIA, NSA, MIC etc) would have been all over this criminal activity. There would be collateral damage, so fierce would their response be.
But nothing. Nada. Our defences have been put to sleep. And who could possibly do that? Do I have to spell it out?
Source: https://odysee.com/@FwapUK:1/A-manufactured-illusion.-Dr-David-Martin-with-Reiner-Fuellmich-9_7_21_-720p:5
[ UK Reinfection Study ] https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n99 Of 11,000 healthcare workers who had proved evidence of infection during the first wave of the pandemic in the UK … none had symptomatic reinfection in the second wave
There was a similar study with similar results at the Cleveland clinic.
Check out this article with an abundance of references. https://www.biznews.com/health/2021/06/28/covid-19-vaccine-immunity
The following are a few excerpts–check the article for the references
survivors of the Spanish Flu epidemic were tested for their immunity to the 1918 influenza virus 90 years after, and still demonstrated immunity;
people recovered from the 2003 SARS infection demonstrated robust T-Cell responses seventeen years later;
the wide-spread prevalence of high cross-immunity – gained from past common cold infections – further demonstrates the resilience of natural immunity for coronaviruses.
symptomatic reinfections are very rare.
by multiple studies, so far variants have not escaped acquired immunity. Just as Americans can speak and interact seamlessly in England, unhindered by a few word variants, natural …immunity is unhindered by variants
Recent research confirms this logic. One comparative study in Israel found the protection from severe disease to be 96·4% for Covid-19 recovered individuals but 94.4% for vaccinated ones,
What is Ideological rigidity but binary thinking? “You’re either for us or against us.”
“You are either good or bad.”
“You’re either left or right.”
As Assman has noted in his book “The Price of Monotheism” this is a gift of Abrahamic monotheism.
Read “The Saga of Eric the Red and Lief Erikson” for a taste of how our ancestors used to think.
Our thinking is crippled by “binaryism ™”. Where life is a rich tapestry, our models have been impoverished with binaryism.
This old man is going to rely on his ignorance to continue to breath. If old people are struck down and Glutathione is absent in old people, then I shall make a wild leap of faith and presume causation.
If I’m wrong, well I hope my next body is as magnificent as the one I was given 70 years ago.
I might even get one of they new “Hubrid” ones. Now That would be interesting.
I am sure surprised to see that. Not what I expected. They seem real anxious to jab the military and I thought it would be the same with other federal employees. Maybe they thing a significant of chunk of people would not go along and it would be too disruptive? I have heard that unlike the military and even the private sector, the federal civilian work force is on stronger legal ground to contest mandatory vaccinations. Maybe that has something to do with it.
A lot of the focus is on the belief that we reach some sort of herd immunity with vaccinating. It is pretty clear, that these vaccines, at best, protect you from a risk of severe illness. ( may be moot for most healthy people and young people ) they seem to do little or nothing from preventing spread. If so, herd immunity is not really obtainable. Oddly enough, the evidence seems to suggest the best course to herd immunity is through natural infection. Perhaps, this is a nothing burger. The only thing that makes this different than a flu or common cold ( both which can kill ) is that instead of 8-15% of the population being susceptible in a given year, maybe 70-80% are. So, as Dr Martenson likes to say, if I were in charge, I’d concentrate not on vaccination, but slowing how many get sick at one time, and collect data like crazy and develop protocols that can be modeled for future epidemics to find therapeutics. Vaccinating your way out every pathogen is not the way to competent immunity. And seems to be rather risky vs natural infection for most people and most pathogens we currently vaccinate for.
A friend of mine theorized that they are not pushing federal employees to do mandatory vaccination because vaccination rates are relatively low among minority federal employees and that they do not wan to pick a fight with those employees who are an important part of the Democrat coalition. Think Tuskegee experiment stigma.
The Aliens are notorious for putting implants into their abductees. I’m going with this is an attempt to implant Everybody.
Since when are vaccines magnetic?
What do these carbon fragments do? Cross the blood-brain barrier, for starters. And then what?
Hey! How would I know? I’m not an alien.
Is there any data on the level of protection after taking the vaccine and then catching the virus? i.e. you are more likely to avoid hospitalisation and death from the vaccine, but then get the benefits from catching the virus.
There was an Op-Ed in the Washington Post yesterday by a John Hopkins professor that said that 85% of the U.S. population has immunity to SARS-CoV-2. I also saw a UK report from last month that said that 88% of the UK population has antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 (we are talking natural and from the vaccines). If so, then where is the herd immunity? First, herd immunity does not mean the virus goes away, but just that it is contained and you do not have big explosions in cases. So, basically, the UK an U.S. have had herd immunity, but now that the Delta variant has emerged cases are going back up for two reasons. Delta is more infectious and it has some resistance to previous immunity in the population gained from infections by other versions of SARS-CoV-2 and from vaccinations. So, cases are going back up in the U.K., the U.S. and Israel (as well as other places). Eventually, Delta will hit a wall (herd immunity) at some point (from antibodies from infections or updated booster shots) and the cases will collapse back down until another variant comes along and repeats the process. See how cases in India collapsed involving Delta (Ivermectin and an immunity build up in the population are responsible). Yet another article, featured various medical experts saying that there is zero chance that this virus is going away ever. They were essentially admitting that you cannot vaccinate this virus away (probably because it does not stop infection, replication, and transmission). Basically it will be endemic and another circulating coronavirus that we simply have to deal with. I think there is the idea in the American population (placed there by propaganda) that all that we have to do is achieve herd immunity and the virus will be permanently quashed and we can go back to be normal again. This dream is not going to happen. However, if the virus continues to evolve as viruses normally do, then it will become steadily more transmissible and less lethal. It might end up as another common cold virus and then people will largely forget about it and ignore it. That scenario is realistic provided the vaccinating in the middle of a pandemic thing does not go sideways as some experts have warned.
Hi All,
I looked at the underlying data (link). The table can be reproduced, but I do not understand the graph that Chris showed, see below.
The data however shows that there are ~6x more cases among the vaxxed. Doing some math, shows that there is no significant difference between the vaxxed and unvaxxed in terms of case count. In other words, the vaxxination does not prevent people from becoming infected at all, not even a reduction is to be seen… Btw, what is unclear to me is if the ultra-orthodox jews and Arab population are overrepresented in the unvaxxed, this group is known to be more vitamin D deficient (link, link, link), and less likely to take the vaxxine. These groups comprise ~28% of the population.
In the graph there is no difference in number of cases between the vaxxed and unvaxxed. How can this be? Is the data somehow normalized, or is this for the Delta variant only?
If the cases data is somehow normalized, is this then also the case for the hospitalization data?
The case graph is clearly cumulative, but why does it start at ~0 cases on the 14th of June? The data shows that there were hundreds of cases? Does it show only Delta cases?
The outcome for ultra-orthodox Jews and Arabs Israelis is typically worse (higher CFR), what would correction for this bias mean for the CFR?
Do any of you have more background data?
Edit: CFR should be “hospitalization”
_____________________________________
The only thing that makes this different than a flu or common cold ( both which can kill ) is that instead of 8-15% of the population being susceptible in a given year, maybe 70-80% are.
I’ve thought of this as well. What does the introduction of a new common cold look like since most have no natural immunity? And then part of maintaining natural immunity is the importance of bumping back into it regularly.
I’ve contemplated this with chicken pox and shingles. You’d get chickenpox at 8 when it was easy to recover, then you’d remount an immune response in your teens when you were babysitting, again when your kids had it and then your grandkids. Are we seeing a jump in shingles because we have taken chickenpox out of the herd through vaccines?
Do we want to eradicate Covid or would it be better to let the snot nosed kids keep reinfecting us?
Another excellent video from Chris as always. My frustration throughout this sorry saga has been the quality of data and information. We see the figures from the UK and Israel but when you look at the UAE it doesn’t add up. The UAE has vaccinated more people than any other country yet it doesn’t appear to have had much of an effect in terms of infections, although they always had a low mortality rate. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/united-arab-emirates/
Given the numbers, scientifically all things should be equal but they are not. For me this leaves more questions than answers. I believe the UAE was using four vaccines including the Chinese Sinovac, but surely that doesn’t account for the difference in infection profiles between countries relative to vaccinations? All in all it just makes me mistrust the data from everyone as we all know there are big financial interests in distorting it.
As far as I can tell, it was always known by most scientists in vaccine development that any intramuscular vaccine was unlikely to produce a strong mucosal antibody response (IgA) i.e. the ones that protect the nose and the throat, the very areas Sars CoV-2 attacks first after being breathed in. From a Nature article last September:
" … it is important to note that natural infection induces both mucosal antibody responses (secretory immunoglobulin A (IgA)) and systemic antibody responses (IgG). The upper respiratory tract is thought to be mainly protected by secretory IgA, whereas the lower respiratory tract is thought to be mainly protected by IgG27,28,29. Vaccines that are administered intramuscularly or intradermally induce mainly IgG, and no secretory IgA30. It is therefore possible that most vaccines currently in development induce disease-preventing or disease-attenuating immunity, but not necessarily sterilizing immunity …" https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2798-3?fbclid=IwAR2NUV7ViOS8PBmCmofqoj3zd-8NFA0xrEVkwNZfvKdJ2JeazkUzJ4wx-wQ
To update this a little bit, the antibodies that it would be really useful for any vaccine to produce look to be dimeric IgA ones. The current crop don’t really produce these, hence Delta is easily caught and transmitted by vaccinated and unvaccinated alike, whatever anyone would want you to believe. More here: https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/13/577/eabf1555.full?fbclid=IwAR11rzAJko6Me2afZMKny6yIMU-wEdJS7QDfQV30agJb-RPViozA95XrOL4
