As we covered in a recent video, herd immunity is getting to look like a more elusive goal than originally hoped.
In fact, we are now seeing convincing evidence of people contracting covid-19 more than once. If indeed the case, that suggests we may never be able to reach herd immunity.
In today’s video, Chris talks with the spouse of a patient still recovering from a second case of covid-19. Hearing of this family’s harrowing experience with the virus gives a very personal proof that this virus is not “just the flu”.
It’s time we start emotionally preparing for the potential that we may be living with covid-19…forever:
Anyone who would like to contribute to Cheri's GoFundme page can do so by clicking here.
Was she tested both times for Covid-19? Did she test negative for Covid-19 after her first illness? Did she test positive for Covid-19 antibodies after either illness? If Covid-19, could the first infection have never fully cleared and reemerged a second time?
The last two vids have been disappointing. No info on Ivermectin as promised. As RM11 mentioned there were a lot of questions that could/should have been asked of Adam Hegi.
The vids are coming across as more agenda driven than data driven.
As I said I hate to say it since the whole pandemic series of vids has been very good.
Regarding Dr. Martenson’s comment in the video that there are only two ways to get this virus behind us, a vaccine or herd immunity…
Forgive me for being ghoulish, but there is a 3rd way: the virus eventually claims everyone who is susceptible, leaving those with natural resistance to the disease. Perhaps this is a variant of “herd immunity”, but not a variant that is pleasant to entertain. If present figures are any indication, the disease would claim about 3 million people in the US, and about 75 million people worldwide.
Unfortunately, I think this is at least as likely as either of the other two. I have absolutely no doubt that this affliction is here to stay.
That being the case, I think there’s potentially a 4th way as well – hydroxychloroquine + zinc (or ivermectin) taken as a prophylactic. Teachers and school children, please line up at the door for your daily dose before entering. Parents, if you object to your children taking this preventive measure, please be prepared to home school them.
I am dismayed and discouraged that the official medical community seems determined to thwart any studies of this treatment option. To the point that I am suspicious of its motives. We are clearly on our own here, so I think it’s time to take matters into our own hands.
Perhaps it is difficult to prepare them with the same degree of thoroughness when there is so much work being done on the homestead? He also does podcasts on other topics. Perhaps he should reduce frequency of videos again.
I sometimes give presentations and I know how many hours I spend for each minute of airtime. Dr. Martenson may be overextended.
Chris, There wasn’t any factual info except their opinion or belief of what happened. We don’t even know if it was COVID and you sent info about their “go fund me page”. I’m sorry for what they are going through. But, I need to see facts. Is it a thing??? If the Honey Badger is so resourceful. How did no one else get it? Why didn’t they get a PCR test? An AB test after recovery vs. it’s a second infection. I’m disappointed in this video. It does not seem up and down. My view.
Hi dtrammel,
Exactly my thought! An friend of a friend died in after a second infection with a different strain he got in Austria. En route to the hospital his lungs collapsed and he died of brain damage. He was very healthy: my own conclusion could be ADE. Which is suspected to be the main driver behind the second wave of the Spanish flu. I think it is very wise to assume that ADE could occur this fall and winter (maybe buy some extra vitamine C, D, NAC?).
grts, Dave
Chris, could you look more into the assumption that we will get an effective vaccine? Right now it feels like a blind spot in your analysis. Given that vaccination history is replete with mistakes, errors, and damaged health of people taking them, what is the likelihood that we will get one that is both safe and effective? From what I read, it seems that coronaviruses are especially difficult to make vaccinations for (which is the reason we don’t have a vaccination for the common cold).
Thanks,
James
Do we have any information indicating if people are being infected by the same variant of the virus or if it is a new variant? As Chris has already mentioned multiple times, a mutation has occured in SARS-COV-2 which increase the infectivity of the virus. Perhaps an immune response against the original variant, is insuficient to prevent reinfection by the new one?
If not we are screwed, unless we get a functional and safe vaccine. At least then we can keep immunizing at short intervals to keep people immunity high.
Sorry but you do not have to defend him or offer excuses.
My philosophy is if you are going to do something do it well, or don’t do it at all.
Joshua Green made some criticisms earlier that had some validity. The latest videos offered assertions with no data. The interview functioned more as a platform for Chris to expound on his point of view. (not totally but more than enough). I did not pay for it so I am not up in arms by any means just noting some slippage from the previous excellent work. As noted important details were not talked about. Also the previous video mentioned Ivermectin works in the title yet was not addressed then ignored in the next one. Constructive criticism is important. My best friends are the ones who tell me when I am screwing up.
In addition to the idea that if one develops immunity, it doesn’t last very long, and doesn’t offer immunity to other clades / mutations of the virus, I’m wondering if it’s possible that the virus can remain dormant after an infection, and become reactivated in future. A while ago I posted this article from the SCMP which describes a peer reviewed study published in Cell Research, describing residual virus being found deep in the lungs of recovered patients, and some patients testing positive again after recovery: https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3082200/coronavirus-may-lurk-deep-lungs-after-patients-recover-study
I understand all your points, MM, and I generally concur. My main point is that perhaps Dr. Martenson might be over-extended so it might be better to do the videos at a lower frequency. Just a suggestion to alter the approach so as to maintain the quality.
To your point, I seem to recall a gentleman on the Diamond Princess cruise ship who was quarantined in isolation for 40 odd days with no symptoms because evidently he kept shedding virus?
I can’t remember how I heard this, so I can find the source.
I’d like to echo Korak291’s points that the info about Cheri didn’t seem to go beyond opinion. As bad as the illness was, there was no mention of any test for Covid-19, nor was there more information about why the hospital thought her symptoms were not entirely genuine. Of course, there’s no reason to think any of it is lies but we also don’t know for certain that either of the two episodes was Covid-19, even though that seems to be the most likely explanation. Very odd that hubby and kids didn’t appear to become ill, and that they weren’t tested for Covid-19 either time. I would have thought that close contacts would be tested automatically (unless they refuse).
I’ve been following the conversation on Cheri’s illness and whether Dr. Martenson was justified in devoting such a large portion of his video on it. Here are my own views…
First, regarding Cheri’s case being anecdotal. Well, yes, but almost all medical inquiries begin with anecdotal evidence. How does one know what to look for without anecdotal evidence? Double-blind, randomized, placebo-controlled trials are taken as the gold standard, but the fact of the matter is that all humans are different and such trials can only give statistical data, so even these don’t necessarily apply to any individual. Given this situation, I’m of the opinion that anecdotal evidence is of great medical value.
Regarding the lack of a Covid-19 test in this case, this points up to me the disgraceful neglect that plagues our sick-care system. The potential for this virus to spread to pandemic proportions has been known since at least last December, and we still don’t have enough tests – or unwilling to pay for them – in June? Perhaps Cheri didn’t have medical insurance, and so diagnosis and treatment was denied? This is a national disgrace, and the fact that the same people who allowed this to happen are still in charge is an even greater disgrace. I see this neglect and malfeasance at all levels and in nearly all spheres of American life. Literally, this country does not deserve to survive, and in its present form, it may not.
Having said that, Cheri displayed the classic symptoms of Covid-19, and so I think it’s safe to assume that she had this illness. It’s only one case, but it shows you what can happen, which should serve as an antidote to complacency. For that reason, I thought the video was valuable.
Just wondered after watching the video whether this is a second infection, another strain, or the same infection that was dormant for some time. Some illnesses, like malaria, lyme, lupus are dormant for some time and then flare up again. And guess what, the treatment for lupus and malaria is hydroxychloroquine and in case of lyme there has been ilads guidelines where hcq was used in combination with azithromycine. Could not find the English version of the ILADS guidelines, this is the Dutch version http://www.lymemed.nl/protocollen/schema.pdf
The question of herd immunity is a critical one. Chris seems to still be of the opinion that 60-70% seroprevalence is needed, whereas DaveFairtex put forward a strong case that only 15-20% is needed. I’d love to know Chris’s take on this theory and perhaps some discourse between the two great men on the topic!!
Second infection, antibodies or memory cells not able to fight off infection.
First infection was a different strain from second
Tissue sequestration of infection not sampled by swabs or blood, virus contues to replicate and reinfect other tissues.
Does viral load play a part in this?
ILADS 2014 treatment guidelines (English) https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1586/14787210.2014.940900
