A Simple Way To Combat Coronavirus: Everyone Should Wear A Mask!

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You quoted me out of context, which is not the way to make a point, as I NEVER said there weren’t things wrong with the medical system in general !
So, let’s put that quote back in context

The problem is it is a pandemic and they are infectious. The medical system is not failing us. It is always our choice on what treatment we want or where to die. Except in a disease outbreak like this it is necessary to have quarantine. this is not the fault of our medical system ! And I am no fan of many practices in general, but in this, there is no choice once you go to the hospital there is then no way to safely leave while you are still infectuous.  
While that is the biggest issue, taking the other person out of context to make your own point, there are in addition problems in logical connections here -- you are now changing your point, changing your point is not an argument to the point I was making. I was responding to you initially saying that having someone die alone shows a fault in our medical system . That is what you said. I responded that while there are other flaws in the medical system ( ie., I said " I am no fan of many practices in general " ) that this particular point was not the fault of the medical system, and then I wrote about why I thought that was the case. So, instead of contributing something to show why you think that the medical system could actually do something about someone dying alone during a pandemic, you now give a laundry list of other things wrong with the medical system. And, take part of what I said out of context ! There are many things particular hospitals and doctors do that I find fault with ! But, each one is a seperate system, each practice and each hospital system, some are run well and some are not  
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For those of you that follow Clif and the chaga_gangstas, Clif has been kicked off twitter for recommending Vitamin C. Soon to be de platformed from you tube as only a small, select group will be allowed to talk about Covid-19.
Moved to Gab.ai as @clif_high

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Perhaps I did not state my opinion appropriately or clearly and should have been more careful to not give any offense.

I responded that while there are other flaws in the medical system ( ie., I said ” I am no fan of many practices in general ” ) that this particular point was not the fault of the medical system, and then I wrote about why I thought that was the case.
I do think, not being able to be with a loved one while they are dying IS the fault of the medical system. Having been with a number of people as they are dying it’s egregious and inexcusable. The point is - the system is structured for profit not for people. I am in agreement with your assessment of the system being lacking. No offense was intended to you personally. I do not think people have thought about what will happen if a loved one gets sick. Think you and the other readers are ready to drop Mum off never to be seen again and get no say or input. Something to think about.  
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On Saturday, Sweden’s public health authority reported there were no new deaths. That has been proven wrong, there was at least one death. A Swedish radio personality died Saturday of the virus, as reported by her daughter. Today (Sunday), they claim there are merely 5 new deaths. This despite there having been many more times that number of deaths for days. It doesn’t seem likely or even possible that it would suddenly drop when there are more cases coming in and an increase in the amount of critical cases. A researcher published a graph that shows that, up until Saturday, we had a steeper trajectory than even Italy. Suddenly, it seems to have dropped off, China-style.
Also today, the public health authority defended its (non-)actions and panned the response and actions taken by the rest of the world by strawmanning that the shutdowns are intended to last until there’s a vaccine available, claimed they have “not thought very far.” They also said they are doing it the way they are to protect the economy.
Right when they make such a statement, the figures suddenly fall in their favor. A little fishy.
The nasty curve shows: The death rate is rising faster in Sweden than in Italy: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.friatider.se%2Fotacka-kurvan-visar-dodssiffran-okar-snabbare-i-sverige-i-italien
SR profile Kerstin Behrendtz died in corona: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.friatider.se%2Fsr-profilen-kerstin-behrendtz-dod-i-corona
The public health authority corona slams rest of world: ‘Not thought very far’: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=sv&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.friatider.se%2Ffolkhalsomyndigheten-coronasagar-utlandet-inte-tankt-sarskilt-langt

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And what role might a mask play in this purpose?
Scientists ask these kinds of questions.

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How else do you think they could do this, right now, in a pandemic ? People are contagious. We are in a Pandemic.
If you think there is something else they could be doing that would not be dangerous, spread the disease, you have still not articulated it !
You just repeated yourself that it is terrible, and it is the fault of the medical system. Of course, it is tragic. However, just what is it that you think could be done given a highly communicable disease in a pandemic ? And, how is the inability to go in and out of a quarantined room, in a pandemic, the fault of the medical system ? Remember, your thesis is that this particular problem, not being able to go in and out of our sick and contagious family members hospital room is the fault of the “medical system” or I guess, more specifically, the hospital. So, in what way is this the hospitals fault ?
Obviously we have all thought about this ! The choice is simple, go to the hospital, where you will be in quarantine and not be able to see family, but be able to avail yourself of treatment, such as suctioning, oxygen, IV fluids, medications, etc… or stay at home with family and not have access to these treatments.
So, for your example of family member who in your example is going to die no matter where they are, you can have them stay at home with you, where if they keep getting sicker, they will suffer from dehydration, pain, and the fear that comes when you cant draw a breath well, and if they are going to die, die with you there while this is going on. Or, you can take that person to the hospital, where you cannot be with them, but they can get an IV to keep from being dehydrated and morphine to ease the breathing and the pain.
I realy think your thought process is selfish. Selfish to the medical workers and your greater community were you to go in and out of a quarantined sick room and spread this. Possible selfish to the ill and dying person. Certainly unfair to the “system” you are railing against, you want everything, you want the medical care and others to take risks so you do not have to face this difficult choice. But it is a pandemic and you dont get to have the care without the quarantine
 
Yes, I know what we used to be able to do. But that was before the pandemic.

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IMHO, nature doesn’t always have a purpose. It’s random mutation. To the anaerobic bacteria 3.5 billion years ago, oxygen producing chlorophyl looked deadly and purposeless. But look at us now.

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https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/03/29/post-coronavirus-world-will-be-far-worse-than-pre-coronavirus-world/
UGH!

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Well I guess the whole system needs to be overhauled. Ideally, if people were a priority family or significant others would be able to have protective gear unless they had already had the virus and had immunity. Tests to check immunity would be available. Patients would have private or semi private rooms to help with quarantining. Hospitals would have “Standard Operating Procedures” in place. Focus groups would spend time creating procedures. But thats not the way it is,
Currently,
The system is barely working and I understand that the staff does not want any family members anywhere near the patient or staff. When my mother was in the hospital I would show up and her equipment would be in a full blown alarm and I would have to track down someone to attend to her. One doctor would come in and say we are going to do surgery on your Dad. An hour later another doctor would come in and say I don’t think he will survive the surgery. My point is in good times people need a champion for their relative. Mistakes are made and it’s convenient and easy to say no relatives. Respirators are being taken away from the elderly and then they are given a sedative. And,of course they all die alone!
So you want me to have perfect answers which I don’t. But I do believe we could do better. When society has no empathy they are on the downhill side of collapse. And, I believe we are headed there. My goal is to bring this up because it is not a subject people are thinking about, but maybe they should. This time next week a lot of us may be facing this predicament. I prefer to be told your husband has an 80% chance of dying do you want to go home and be together or get hooked up to a machine and die alone? That would be my preference. That would be his preference - to be able to decide. And it seems so shortsighted to be in this situation at all.
Hospitals should be held accountable. You failed to plan appropriately and put profit over people so healthcare is now non-profit! Period, full stop. The people should get the same healthcare our politicians get. They get 100% coverage for life. They are supposed to serve US. How is that fair?
Hope that answered you question?
 

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Glad to see the former FDA head prompting masks: https://youtu.be/S2TDEOfPc0s

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Just caught the last few sentences on MSNBC of remarks by one of the Dr. Guptas. (Yes, there’s more than one.) Of course I can’t find a clip of it anywhere to link. What I heard him parroting was that no one except medical personnel should be wearing masks. He kinda sounded like he thinks no private person even has a right to do so.
It’s funny, but it’s never been the virus that has made my stomach turn over. Rather, it’s humans and the nefarious ways they are dealing with it. I don’t know how to not take it personally when seeing the constant barrage of attacks on individuals for using masks.
Two months ago, it was already a challenge to find N95 masks for sale in retail stores. In the secondary market, prices were already rising. I did what I could to obtain a supply for my son-in-law and for my daughter, who has had asthma since she was a toddler. I did not invest my efforts and financial resources to compensate for the shortcomings of our federal government, nor for the failure of medical facilities to assertively plan ahead. It is beyond maddening to hear the escalating drumbeat against private individuals protecting themselves. It doesn’t sound that different to me than the assertion by Dan Patrick that granny should willingly die to save the economy. I feel personally condemned, as if I’m supposed to apologize for planning to protect my family. It’s Aesop’s fable all over again, but this time the angry grasshoppers are organized, and they’re trying their best to persuade everyone that the ants are the villains.

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Please understand, there is no purpose, and no arrow of direction, guiding Evolution, whatsoever. Evolution is not striving toward any goal, or destination, and does not follow a path.
Think of a blob of mud dropping to the ground from two stories of height. The mud hits the ground and splatters where it will…and flows where it can. Evolution is like that.
Evolution is really not the survival of the fittest, but, rather…the survival of what happens to survive.

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I hear everyone going from a 2% CFR based on diagnosed case bases. Actuallly its much higher based on cases. Never the less, people are trying to take that 2% and assume many many more are infected that are asymptomatic. This is wrong , this assumption people get sick and dont know it. Like its 80%. First , the asymptomatic is more related to spread “before one is symptomatic” not that all these people run around sick but not sick. There have been a few super-spreaders that are like this but its something like 1%. So , no there are not a lot of people that are sick we have to adjust for , that dont know they are sick. Second, though there are people who have not severe enough symptoms to seek help, they still know its not the flu and reason to believe its Covid and would like to get tested if possible. However , this does not lower the actual CFR. The truth is when you factor the lag for deaths at time slice of infections, it will show much higher than this 2%. The problem is we know there are tons of deaths not being recorded. And I am not talking about a few. One doctor said that he knows of 5 in his hospital alone , that is not being counted… and the county deaths registered were only 1… so he has at least 5 - in one of 3-5 county hospitals… and only 1 registered… That is huge disparity… So , I argue for all these 100 cases of un-included cases, I offer at least 3 deaths not recorded… so, you cannot start from an arbitrarily low number and work backwards… you have to take a realistic number and work forwards. Its just optimistic thinking. Where you want to take cases of sick people not sick and add them to sick… ( complete fiction ) where I can actually find real deaths not reported per doctor testimony.
With exceptional healthcare , this could be 0 % CFR. But realistically, extraordinary healthcare was only reserved for the diamond princess casualties. As we become overwhelmed medically, you can pretend it doesnt exist. That is the only death rate I want… the one without medical intervention… Because medical intervention is a wide wide variable… illness is too but its much more predictive. I think enough studies have been compiled to state with reasonable cause - that 20% of the cases are serious…This is now given to us officially. I am sure its based on some studies. And 30% of hospitalizations result in fatality. This was officially given to us in studies. So that is what you must go on… That is a 6% fatality with medical intervention. and you can only go up from there. As for the DP. If we could test everyone in your city. and take all those positive, whether they developed symptoms(yet) , and automatically hospitalize them and give them best of treatment , constant care checking for changes , like blood counts, and inflamatory markers, xrays, lab cultures, at the earliest sign of a problem and treating that immediately before the patient even becomes aware they are having issues… the out-come will be significantly better. DP is fiction fantasy land. with fantasy treatment and testing.

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The powers that be are planning on social unrest. To what extent are they planning and preparing for? Please, spill the tea.
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Its a joke, what is going on, And we are not allowed to even protect ourselves now… and must sacrifice normal adjustment and hygeine for the economy.

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Well, that took a while, and wading thru other issues, but staying on topic, it seems that you feel it is the medical systems fault we cant see family quarantined in the hospital during this pandemic because all they would have to do is these 2 things :

family would be able to have protective gear....patients would have private or semitprivate rooms..
I think you do not understand the real issue. If you have spent time in a hospital, you would know why this is an issue, and if you had an idea, you would be able to articulate some specifics of how this would work. The point is that it is not about ppe for family, that is not sufficient, if it were, medical personell would not catch it, but they do. And family would be worse on the use of ppe. I have seen it, I have been there when the risks were not as great as they are now. This is not as issue of ppe, they could not allow it even if they had more. If you think differently, go ahead and let us, and your local hospital know how they could do this. I actually HAVE been to visit elderly family with a communicable disease, MRSA, antibiotic resistant pneumonia. I have used ppe in a hospital to visit family, my mother. I am speaking from experience, I do not see anyway that they could allow family in to a room, doning and taking off ppe for this pandemic. I have been there and done that and I do see the issues. It is not a matter of ppe availability, even if we had more, we could not let family in to spread this. So, I understand why they have this policy. Also, we already do have private rooms. This is common. And, it is not enough. It is not an issue of family being around a person sharing a room with sick family member. Even ICU is seperate rooms, some emergency rooms are too, others aren't, it depends, I was at quite a few different ones last year. The issue is that family walked thru the hospital, breathing and touching. It doesnt matter if you gave them gloves and a mask at the front door. You would have to have personell watch them every minute, next thing you know they "adjust" the mask with their gloved hands and then touch the railing. They go and use the toilet. Surely it is not that hard to see the issues ? So, again, if you have a plan, we would love to hear it, otherwise stop putting down the hospitals and hospital workers who need to have policies in place to protect themselves and the public while we are in this pandemic. And, if you think about it, cant you see that more masks wouldnt do it ? I mean, I have my own mask and gloves, but I know if my asthmatic family member, who I love dearly, comes down with this and is in the hospital, that I cant go. ANd, I am not mad at them about it. I understand and appreciate the risks that they are already working under. The inherent risks that are there even with perfect ppe, because ppe is never perfect
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The lonely yellow onion is probably the best food source for quercetin. As Darrell’s Grandma used to say: “an onion a day keeps the doctor away.”

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So, again, if you have a plan, we would love to hear it, otherwise stop putting down the hospitals and hospital workers who need to have policies in place to protect themselves and the public while we are in this pandemic
Geez I spent a really long time explaining my concerns, fears and frustrations and your answer is if you don’t have answers I like shut the f!$;:&! Up. I am right you are wrong! Thanks, I got it. Kinda rude though. We all get to have opinions.    
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Evolution is random mutations filtered by natural selection. Mutations which result in a better chance of reproduction will propagate through a population. “Survival of the fittest” is a simplistic way of putting it.