As The World Burns

I wish I had written this. I agree 110% with every single word (as do most of the officers I know).
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/06/the-george-floyd-killing-a-police-officers-view/

To secure convictions, prosecutors must prove that officer Derek Chauvin was the proximate cause of Floyd’s death and that the others assisted him in the act.

It was nearly 20 years ago that my first piece was published here on NRO. I described my experiences as an undercover cop circulating among the protesters at the 2000 Democratic National Convention, held that summer at the Staples Center in Los Angeles. Eager to prevent the type of bedlam seen in Seattle the previous year, when swarms of protesters extended themselves to disrupt the World Trade Organization conference, the Los Angeles Police Department and other local, state, and federal law-enforcement agencies prepared and trained in the months leading up to the DNC’s opening. The result was a success, with levels of violence and property damage a small fraction of those seen in Seattle. (Part I of my first piece on NRO is here; Part II, here.)

Alas, memories fade and hard-earned lessons are sooner or later forgotten. So, when the protests engendered by the death of George Floyd reached kLos Angeles, the city was unprepared to follow the practices that had worked so well 20 years ago. Granted, in 2000 we were faced with a scheduled event and had months to train and stockpile the needed equipment, while the current protests arose unexpectedly. Still, events of the past several years have taught us (or should have) that proven strategies and tactics need to be rehearsed and refreshed at regular intervals so they can be implemented when circumstances demand.

I have retired from the LAPD and am now working for a smaller police agency in the greater Los Angeles area. I was among those in my current agency who responded last weekend when the LAPD, overwhelmed by the size and geographic spread of the protests, made a request for mutual aid. What I saw, and what was reported to me by former colleagues still with the LAPD, was discouraging, but it confirmed the decision I made several years ago to leave the city where I was born and had lived most of my life.

As it did throughout my LAPD career, the department’s current command staffconsists largely of people who have spent minimal time in patrol or other assignments that might have exposed them to actual crime and its consequences. The preferred path to promotion in the department runs through internal affairs and other administrative posts. There are exceptions, but in insufficient numbers to make a difference when large disturbances break out at opposite ends of the city, as they have in recent days. The current staff roster includes a number of men and women I knew before I retired, some of whom have now risen to positions two, three, or even more ranks beyond what their talents would have carried them to in a genuine meritocracy. This resulted in chaos as police captains, commanders, and deputy chiefs made decisions and issued directions for which their own training and experience had not prepared them.

During my time with the LAPD, efforts were often made to prevent such people from being in charge during crucial incidents. They were relegated to positions from which they could cause little harm or compound confusion. This was not done last weekend, and the LAPD’s performance suffered for it. For example, on Saturday afternoon and evening, as officers struggled to contain looting in the Fairfax district, I monitored radio traffic from the scene in which an officer in a circling helicopter asked for more personnel to supplement the cops on skirmish lines and those chasing looters. No more officers were available, he was told. At that very moment, about 200 officers were waiting for instructions in a staging area miles away. They remained in that staging area for four hoursbefore being dispatched to the trouble zone, by which time the looting had all but ended....

...Turning now to the event that sparked the troubles, the death of George Floyd at the hands of the Minneapolis police. I have spoken to many of my current and former colleagues about it, and among them there is universal condemnation of what was shown in the Facebook video that captured Floyd’s last breaths. Floyd’s protestations and those of the onlookers must have been disturbing to hear as they occurred, but with the knowledge of what followed they are deeply haunting.

Much of my opinion writing over these last 20 years has been in defense of police officers whose actions have been misunderstood by the public, often after being willfully distorted in the media. Such was the case in 2014 when Michael Brown was shot and killed by a police officer in Ferguson, Mo. Multiple investigations, including one by Eric Holder’s Justice Department, concluded that Brown had attacked the officer, who therefore acted lawfully when he fired in self-defense. Despite this, the myth that Brown had his hands up when he was shot was widely embraced after it was repeated endlessly in the media and, sadly, by elected officials at all levels of government. In the aftermath of the George Floyd incident, I have often heard uninformed or purposefully deceitful talking heads invoke Brown as another innocent victim of police violence.

I acknowledge my bias in favor of police officers, but in writing about these controversial incidents I do my best to offer a fair analysis from a street cop’s perspective. I do not reflexively defend police officers and have on occasion endorsed criminal charges when I believed they were warranted. Four years ago, I criticized (now former) police officer Michael Slager for shooting and killing Walter Scott after a traffic stop in North Charleston, S.C., though I questioned whether he was truly as depraved as he had been portrayed in the press. (Slager is currently serving a 20-year prison sentence.) And in 2017, when Minneapolis police officer Mohammed Noor shot and killed Justine Damon, who had called the police to report a possible assault near her home, I wrote, “Noor is headed to prison, and deserves it.” Noor was convicted by a jury of third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter. He is now serving a twelve-year sentence in prison.

Derek Chauvin, who was fired from the Minneapolis P.D. the day after Floyd’s death, faced the same charges, though as I write this comes the news that Minnesota attorney general Keith Ellison has, as expected, amended the complaint to charge him with second-degree murder. The other three involved officers, Tou Thao, J. Alexander Kueng, and Thomas Lane, all of whom have also been fired, will be charged with aiding and abetting Chauvin.

The video of course is damning. There lies Floyd prone on the ground, saying he can’t breathe while bystanders shout, “You’re killing him.” Through it all an oddly expressionless Chauvin keeps his left knee firmly on Floyd’s neck. And Floyd did indeed die, as the world would soon learn, so it seemed criminal charges would be forthcoming after the thorough investigation this or any killing deserves.

No such investigation had come close to completion, and yet Chauvin was arrested and charged within days, an obvious but futile attempt to appease those calling for his head on a spike. They hoped to avoid a riot, but it’s riots they got, and then some.

Now a narrative has been erected and universally adopted, one that brands Chauvin as a racist murderer and George Floyd as a martyr to the never-ending quest for social justice. And who would dare question this narrative, with the video of Floyd’s death as unambiguous as it is?

But there are reasons to question it, and an honest search for truth demands that it be questioned.

On May 28, three days after Floyd’s death, there emerged the first hint that the narrative may have been too hastily constructed and that its foundation was less than solid. The Hennepin County medical examiner issued a press release citing preliminary results from George Floyd’s autopsy. “The cause and manner of death,” it read, “is currently pending further testing and investigation.”

This should have given a dispassionate observer pause. Surely, one might have assumed, an autopsy would have revealed evidence of the injuries Floyd had suffered and that no further testing and investigation should be required. This first bit of equivocation from the medical examiner went all but unnoticed in the media as the protests and rioting in Minneapolis grew larger and spread across the country. Later came another press release, this one containing more — but far from complete — details on why Floyd died. The cause of death was listed as “cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual, restraint, and neck compression.” It went on to list “other significant conditions: Arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease; fentanyl intoxication; recent methamphetamine use.”

In other words, George Floyd fit the description of what is known in the law as an eggshell victim. The doctrine of the eggshell victim holds that a defendant is fully liable for injuries he inflicts on a plaintiff even if the plaintiff had a preexisting condition that made him more susceptible to being injured. But for this doctrine to apply, it must be shown that the defendant was acting unlawfully when he caused the injury. This is where things get murky and begin to escape the confines of the narrative.

There can be little argument that Floyd had been lawfully detained and arrested before he died. Police had been called after he was alleged to have paid for cigarettes with a counterfeit bill, a minor crime that nonetheless warranted his arrest. And security video from local businesses suggest he resisted being placed in a police car after being handcuffed. The New York Times and the Washington Post have each assembled a video timeline of the events, but both leave open the question of how Floyd went from standing on the police car’s left side one minute to lying face down on its right side the next. In the New York Times video, the narrator laments this gap in the public record. “The widely circulated arrest videos don’t paint the entire picture of what happened to George Floyd,” she says. “Additional video and audio from the body cameras of the key officers would reveal more about why the struggle began and how it escalated.”

Given the haste with which Chauvin was charged and the overwhelming media interest in the case, it is curious that the body-camera footage has not been released. Could it be that it has been withheld because it does not bolster the case against the defendants? Police officers are authorized to use force to effect an arrest, overcome resistance, and prevent escape, and if Floyd acted as described in the criminal complaint in which Chauvin was originally charged, the officers were justified in using force against him — at least up to a point.

In the complaint, the authors of which have seen the body-camera footage, the prosecuting attorney concedes that Floyd resisted being placed in the police car. “The officers made several attempts to get Mr. Floyd in the backseat of [the police car] from the driver’s side,” it reads. “Mr. Floyd did not voluntarily get in the car and struggled with the officers by intentionally falling down, saying he was not going in the car, and refusing to stand still. Mr. Floyd is over six feet tall and weighs more than 200 pounds.”

The same document tells us that Floyd, even as he was still standing and resisting efforts to put him in the police car, was repeatedly saying he could not breathe despite clear evidence that he could. Police officers, but few others, know that “I can’t breathe” is the universal complaint of the resisting arrestee. Police officers also know, as most others do not, that handcuffed suspects can fight and escape, especially when officers are confronted by hostile onlookers. (See, for example, this video taken last year in Chicago.)

Defense attorneys will argue, not without evidence, that Floyd died not because of the application of unlawful force, but rather that it was his own resistance to lawful force, exacerbated by his documented medical conditions and drug use, that triggered a fatal heart attack. Fentanyl and methamphetamines can and often do bring about fatal arrhythmias even absent the type of exertions attributed to Floyd in the complaint. Yes, there came a point when Floyd ceased to struggle and should have been brought to a seated position. Was it this failure to follow what has for decades been standard police procedure that caused Floyd’s death, or did his struggling stop only when the fatal heart attack occurred? These are questions medical experts on both sides will testify about at trial, but for convictions the prosecutors must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Chauvin was the proximate cause of Floyd’s death and that the others assisted him in the act. In all my years as a police officer I have never seen the seeds of reasonable doubt planted in the very pages of a criminal complaint as they have been here.

As I wrote of Michael Slager four years ago, it is not a question of whether Chauvin and the others were right or wrong, but rather of how wrong they were. Murder is a serious charge that requires serious evidence. As things now stand, I don’t think the prosecutors have it.

Most martial arts are limited by the rules they fight under. TKD is famous for producing people with fantastic kicks, but little to no ability to use their hands - or even to see a punch coming. I know this because I’ve trained with them. Lethal feet, but you punch them, its all over. Same for boxers. Stay away from those lethal hands - you have to kick them instead. And all of the strikers - vulnerable to takedowns by those BJJ, Sanshao, and Judo fighters. (I try and stay away from such people if at all possible). Your art’s rules determine what you are able to see coming.
Many martial arts do teach you one thing: how to deal (psychologically) with taking damage, and still continuing to function. They also teach you distance. How far is too far. How far is “just right”. It just gets coded into the brain after enough time. “That’s too close.” You just know.
I’m not sure that a few classes in TFT gets you any of that. But if you layer TFT on top of some more standard martial arts training, I suspect it is a pretty useful combination.
I haven’t actually taken TFT, but I saw a few one-hour instructional videos, and I have a sense of how useful it would be.
Like anything, you would need to practice it to get it down. When you are under severe stress, all your techniques tend to reduce down to a small handful of things you know well. There is no substitute for practice.

What they were covering with the protests in the film happened a few years ago. That is obvious, but that is still ANTIFA, they havent changed their tactics since the Berkeley attacks or the speakers they shut down and tried to shut down at that time. The link you posted does not show that it was fake
All the other footage, of the Ben Shapiro talk, the rioting and violence in Berkeley is not current, it is from the time when that bookstore was still open …
Why would you think that the antifa tactics are fake based on something you found online, caliming, the project veriats video was fake while showing absolutely no proof of it, when it is the other way, all the events shown in the video are from a few years ago, they are putting it out again now to remind people of how antifa operates

thc0655…I found this to be out of alignment with my experience:

Given the haste with which Chauvin was charged and the overwhelming media interest in the case, it is curious that the body-camera footage has not been released. Could it be that it has been withheld because it does not bolster the case against the defendants?
From my vantage point it seems that police and DA's are very quick to release exculpatory videos but foot-draggingly slow when it's the opposite. Further, using a knee on a cuffed and compliant suspect is...suspect. I do feel bad for that rookie cop who made not one but two attempts to get 19-year veteran Chauvin to stop applying the knee. I'm not sure how much more he could have done short of tackling Chauvin. So damned if he did and damned if he didn't. That's a no-win situation for him. And I'll disagree with the author here again:
I criticized (now former) police officer Michael Slager for shooting and killing Walter Scott after a traffic stop in North Charleston, S.C., though I questioned whether he was truly as depraved as he had been portrayed in the press.
Slager full-on shot a dude in the back who was slowly lumbering away. From a traffic stop. I cannot find anything positive to say about that. There are times when force must be used, there are other times when everything can be accomplished but better with deescalation. I feel like there's a ton of room for improvement in US police tactics and I especially 100% agree with the idea that it's time to stop taking any sort of training/advice from Israelis and their occupying force mentality.

The one sentence reference to the Project Veritas video made no mention of its date. It was thrown out there as a “proof”. We here at Peak Prosperity expect better than some cheap video from a person with a history of fakes.
I am neither a member or supporter of Anitifia, nor a member or supporter of white supremacist so I will not try to speak for either of them. I do find it questionable that a loose coalition of left leaning protesters who are against hate speech, support people of color, support gay and lesbians, and are against Trump and far right politics are now being accused of all the looting, violence and such at protests against police brutality by those same groups when white supremacist groups have for over a century actively targeted those same groups with violence and terror.
You can’t blame the Left without also admitting that the Right has as much if not more reasons to cause trouble at these protests. And a history soaked in blood of doing just that. What ever your experiences with local Antifia supporters you have, it seems to color you opinions to project them across everyone involved.
I for one am growing tied of the stringent political attacks playing on emotions, supported by questionable videos and articles and not facts, that are growing on these forums. They don’t seem to serve the purpose of Peak Prosperity and the people here.

First off let me say I have not watched the video. I have not attempted to investigate any of the questions. A friend sent this to me today. I am putting it out there so the PP community can look at them and maybe answer some of the questions. Question number 12 is of particular interest.
 
Questions about the George Floyd Incident:

  1. Why does one photo from behind show the man on the road is not handcuffed and the video from the front that he is handcuffed?
  2. Why is the cop car in the restaurant surveillance video different than the one Floyd was lying behind (different car numbers)?
  3. Why were the cops in the surveillance footage that arrested him different than the police in the actual incident?
  4. Why does the video show the diesel fuel price as 99 cents instead of the regular price in the area of $2.49?
  5. Why does the Police Car have a non-Municipal license plate with “Police” on it?
  6. Why does Derek have a completely different police badge on top of a second police badge matching his partner’s if they work for the same precinct?
  7. Why is it not odd that both Officers Tou Thao and Derek Chauvin have both previously been investigated for excessive use of force and not charged by State AG Amy Klobuchar?
    Additionally, Officer Derek Chauvin is married to his partner’s sister Kelli.
  8. Is there any cop dumb enough to continue kneeling on someone’s neck for 8 minutes when surrounded by people and being video recorded?
  9. Is it possible for the deceased’s cousins and fiancé to be completely tearless during interviews?
  10. Why does the main cop have one hand in his pocket most of the time he’s kneeling?
  11. Why did the kneeling officer appear completely cool and calm, as if he was posing for the camera?
  12. Doesn’t it seem strange that Floyd and the officer that kneeled on his neck worked security together on the same shift at the El Nuevo Rodeo Club, the officer for 17 years (both were laid off because of the COVID Virus)?
  13. Why do the neighbors of this officer say they didn’t know he was a cop and never saw him in uniform?
  14. Why has the same attorney been hired as with all the other big supposed police killings of blacks? Attorney Benjamin Crump. The same attorney that worked on previous cases that resulted in busses bringing in rioters from outside the city?
  15. Why does store surveillance video shows Floyd calmly and submissively walking with the officer and not resisting arrest while the officer gently allowed him to sit down on the sidewalk, and multiple officers calmly chatting with him? Is this the kind of suspect that a police officer would feel the need to put on the ground and place his knee on his neck
  16. Why did the EMT workers (wearing Police Uniforms including bulletproof vests) roughly handle and dump the unconscious George on the stretcher? This is not how trained emergency workers lift a person with a possible neck injury. Why did they not attempt triage or try CPR?
  17. Can someone really not breathe when someone kneels on his neck and is the victim really able to speak for considerable periods of time if he can’t breathe?
  18. Post killing: Why is a white man that looks like an undercover (St Paul) cop in black and a riot gear mask carrying a black umbrella walking around breaking windows (and others dressed similarly starting fires) and instigating a riot? Is this reminiscent of “umbrella man” during the JFK shooting?
  19. Why were almost all the rioters leading the destruction of the neighborhood at the beginning of the riots “white” and not from Minneapolis… in a black neighborhood after a police killed a black man?
  20. Why did the Chief of Police make it a point that those Inciting the Riots and Arsonists were not from Minnesota?

It gets a bit lonely out here in PP cyberspace sometimes. I never considered that I might up-vote or “like” my own posts. While a bit self-serving, at least that way it might give the impression that someone read and even “liked” some of my comments–especially those that seem to run counter to the vocal predictable up-voting majority here.
Just kidding/not kidding, of course. Carry on. :wink:

I have been following ANTIFA ever since they emerged following the election of Trump. They are real and they are willing to use violence to prevent anyone whose speech offends them from speaking (anyone to the right of Karl Marx, that is).
For instance Ann Coulter’s speech at Berkeley was first cancelled by the university under threat of violence by ANTIFA and then later rescheduled and held after threat of litigation. :slight_smile: Yes, ANTIFA showed up when Coulter spoke and they were violent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Berkeley_protests
ANTIFA are the PC cops carried to an extreme. They seem to be most concentrated on or near university campuses. I don’t know how widespread they are across the country, but they were among about 500 protesters of a speech by Richard Spencer at my university not long ago.
https://theintercept.com/2018/03/30/msu-richard-spencer-antifa/
I think anyone should be able to speak about anything…so I detest ANTIFA. I particularly detest the fact that they appear to be concentrated at universities–where freedom of speech/thinking are supposed to be ideals we cherish.
The ANTIFA are, in fact, the very fascist thugs they say they hate. They hate the First Amendment. They do qualify as a domestic terrorist organization. I think it is only right that they receive that label and whatever police attention goes with it.

:slight_smile:
[Seriously, this will be the only time I intentionally “up-vote” my own comment.]

From my vantage point it seems that police and DA's are very quick to release exculpatory videos but foot-draggingly slow when it's the opposite.
My observation is that the difference is in the political atmosphere where these events take place. From listening to your videos on the Honey Badger virus (especially the last dozen or so), I bet we could both wax eloquent on the failings of other professionals in our respective fields of study and experience (science and law enforcement). I think we would agree there's a lot of room for improvement and some serious misbehavior going on in both fields. Would you agree that's true of both science and law enforcement because both fields are packed with flawed human beings? Or would you conclude that science is not nearly as hindered by fraud, misbehavior and criminal activity as is law enforcement? I say Peak Trust is in our rearview mirror and we're seeing all kinds of flaws in everybody and everything in roughly equal amounts.
Further, using a knee on a cuffed and compliant suspect is...suspect.
I was absolutely flabbergasted when I learned recently that a knee to the neck of a resisting suspect is an approved technique in some situations according to the official policies and training of the Minneapolis Police Department! Nothing like that would be approved in the Philadelphia Police Department. You can be sure the officers will use that policy and training as part of their defense. Police all over the country have been trained on the dangers of "positional asphyxia," what it looks like, how it can kill, and how to avoid it. Knee or no knee, they knew or should've known about positional asphyxia and got Floyd into a sitting or standing position as soon as he quit struggling. That's why I think the whole prosecution's case will have to focus on the last 2 or 3 minutes after Floyd quit struggling and talking. If the officers had just sat him up at that point he would probably still be alive and we wouldn't be dealing with this.
Slager full-on shot a dude in the back who was slowly lumbering away. From a traffic stop. I cannot find anything positive to say about that.
The author didn't say anything positive about that, but he did mildly criticize the media's coverage of the incident and Officer Slager. There's always plenty of room to criticize media coverage of just about anything (the Federal Reserve, HCQ, etc.).
I especially 100% agree with the idea that it's time to stop taking any sort of training/advice from Israelis and their occupying force mentality.
You must know a lot more about Israeli training of American police than I do. In 19 years on the PPD, I encountered exactly one training exposure to anything Israeli and that was in the last three years of my career. This training wasn't department-wide but only for officers like myself in a small anti-terrorism unit. I went to an all day training with a variety of expert presenters and one of them was an Israeli police or military officer (I forget which) who spoke for an hour on how to respond after a terrorist bomb has detonated in your city. First, he warned us to be extremely vigilant for secondary devices: bombs timed or triggered after first responders and bystanders have arrived to try to help the victims. Second, he offered guidance on processing the crime scene as efficiently and quickly as possible. Third, he offered guidance on the importance of getting the site of the bombing back to as much as normal as possible as quickly as possible. The reason for this is that the terrorists want to cause as much disruption and spectacle as possible and you give it to them on a silver platter if the scene of the bombing is shut down and looks like a bombing for days or weeks. I was astounded to learn that they usually get their crime scenes processed and the street reopened to foot and vehicular traffic, glass repaired, painting begun, and businesses open again in 18 hours or less! There was nothing in that training like what you're talking about, so I'm totally in the dark about Israeli police training in the occupation model.

I can reply to #13 having been married to a retired cop. Many police officers do not disclose their profession to their neighbors out of security concerns. The same goes for appearing in uniform. Some jurisdictions and departments encourage visibility, others do not.

I should actually clarify, no my wife didnt ship the parcel - the people who shipped it should always insure valued shipments. She just facilitates a lot of processing - she tries her best to make sure others are doing their job… ( what i meant to say, is she pushed a valuable shipment without verifying it was done properly. It is not her job as she has other things to worry about.
Of further note, the loss is not her fault or my fault as some others here suggest. The fault of someone stealing someone else’s stuff is the person stealing… its a felony. But, I guess i am frustrated at how many people steal and do illegal stuff on the stock exchange - SEC and governments never punishes this kind of stealing… the housing crises and mortgage broker scams - no one got punished… people running off whit merchandise in the droves, while police stand and do nothing… and are more interested in non participant protesters. IT is their JOB… and who pays the insurance… like somehow if its insured it makes it better? have you seen shipping costs and insurances ? Anyway… to assume I am at fault more so than the person who committed the crime and the police who dont care about protecting me, is way out of line. That is the same logic used by bad operators that make all the problems we discuss here.

Please for the love of Jesus, if this place turns into an Antifa Conspiracy place, that is what facebook is for.
I am liberal and I have never been invited to the Illuminati. George Soros has never sent me a check. And I don’t have a secret conspiracy plan with the Jews to turn the world communist.
I love chickens. This liberal has spent the last week getting ready my chicken coop for the baby chicks that have hatched the last 2 days.
This weekend, I will not be working on propagating my feminist-gay agenda. I will instead be working on my 2nd chicken run.
I love yall. But I pay $30 a month here to AVOID ufo-alien-antifa-Bill Gates conspiracies. You can get that for free on Facebook.
(LOL, but if you do believe that stuff. Get me the address of the Illuminati. They have lost my invite.)
 
 

taunting and making light of other members is against site guidlines and does not add anything constructive to the discussion, ie. accusing others of being conspiracy theory proponents, making fun of a real topic of concern by feigning connections with the illuminatii, etc…

 

Karen, You do realize that many of the senior’s here, including a certain namesake website owner, understand that 9/11 was in fact a false flag, right? You are not going to purge, “conspiracy theories” from this community as we are truth seekers. Some things are true, and some are not. We are in business of figuring out which is which here. If you assert that everything that the mainstream media calls, “conspiracy” is false, then you are not going to be happy here.

1 Like
I think anyone should be able to speak about anything...so I detest ANTIFA. I particularly detest the fact that they appear to be concentrated at universities--where freedom of speech/thinking are supposed to be ideals we cherish. The ANTIFA are, in fact, the very fascist thugs they say they hate. They hate the First Amendment. They do qualify as a domestic terrorist organization. I think it is only right that they receive that label and whatever police attention goes with it.
Bruce, I'm not giving Antifa a pass on being a problem. Many of them come not out of the peaceful side of the Left, but from the anarchists side that wants to burn it all down. What I'm pointing out is the completely one sided accusations that they and they alone are the ones looting, cause violence and destruction at the protests by a few here and many out in the social media verse. When I see a comment like this here on Peak Prosperity, up voted 11 times, it worries me greatly:
Antifa is a domestic terrorist group. It must be crushed by law enforcement. Anyone who has participated in this criminal violence against the innocent and defenseless citizens in these communities must do serious jail time. Any politicians who have encouraged this criminal violence or have been silent in the face of it, or have failed to protect their citizens and communities, must be defeated and forever removed from any position of public trust. Any media figure or figure in the popular culture — actor, athlete, comedian, etc. — who has encouraged or excused this criminal violence should be forever condemned by the American people. There must be no excuses or exceptions for this violent mayhem and anarchy, endangering the lives and destroying the livelihoods of innocent citizens.
When an organization perhaps a decade old (?) is getting blamed for everything, and organized, militant, criminal white supremacists groups are given no mention, then something is very wrong with the discussion. And I will also add, organized, militant, criminal supremacists groups of other ethnic groups as well. A good friend worked in prisons and then probations, and has infrequently discussed the underbelly of race in this country and how close we are to an armed civil war. The Peak Prosperity forums are not a place for such one sided words. ADDED:
taunting and making light of other members is against site guidlines and does not add anything constructive to the discussion, ie. accusing others of being conspiracy theory proponents, making fun of a real topic of concern by feigning connections with the illuminatii, etc...
There's doubting the established mainstream media story and there is pushing ill informed, biased and false stories in a post here. I hope every one of us would be willing to listen to opposing ideas about things we hold true. I suspect we have all at one time dipped a toe into a redditt thread that is so over the top that we just shake our heads. I don't want this place to devolve into that. Threatening karen with a forum guideline violation is a bit over the top don't you think, give some of the things that get said here at times? We've all embellished our posts with humor and silliness. Lighten up.

Antifa is a terrorist org. We have seen inside their meetings. Someone brought pallets of bricks to many cities during the recent unrest. Your efforts to create a middle ground fail miserably… I hope Trump rounds them all up as enemy combatants.
ttps://www.projectveritas.com/news/antifa-practice-things-like-an-eye-gouge-it-takes-very-little-pressure-to/

Antifa is a terrorist org. We have seen inside their meetings. Someone brought pallets of bricks to many cities during the recent unrest. Your efforts to create a middle ground fail miserably.. I hope Trump rounds them all up as enemy combatants.
I'm not trying to create a "middle ground". I'm pointing out that some of you don't seem to find the right wing people doing much worse than you accuse Antifa of, just as much of a problem and worthy condemnation. Until you do, you're showing your bias. Do I really need to counter your "they are teaching people to gouge eyes" with a list of the crimes that right wing white supremacists have committed over the past century against liberal activists and people of color? We can be here all month doing that. ADDED: This is the type of reporting and discussion that I expect from Peak Prosperity members: Explainer: Who are Antifa, the 'boogaloo' movement and others blamed in U.S. protest violence?  

Karen:
I have previously, patiently, eloquently responded to comments you have made, including the one in which your Jesus is jumping on a pogo stick. It is clear you are not a truth seeker in any way. I am not sure why you are here at PP… Just for fun how about I flip this around and ask you to prove Jesus is not a conspiracy theory?
As Jim said, we at PP are truth seekers. When you trot out the conspiracy theorist label, among other disparaging comments, you are calling into question the intellectual discernment and critical thinking skills of A LOT of very smart people.
I suggest that until you are able to open your mind up to other realities perhaps you should stick to Facebook as your reading / news source. We want and need people here who are willing to participate in conversations that matter, including those that ask uncomfortable questions making us examine our knowledge and belief systems, as well as being willing to learn new things that may lead to uncomfortable truths.
And by and large, Jesus does not get too many mentions around here either, especially doing weird shit… Next thing we know you will have him jumping on a trampoline!
Jan ?
 

You said,

Do I really need to counter your "they are teaching people to gouge eyes" with a list of the crimes that right wing white supremacists have committed over the past century against liberal activists and people of color? We can be here all month doing that.
No, we probably should not dredge up the racist history of the democratic party. I was talking about the here and now though... and I think Candace Owens sums it up here pretty well. I have not tolerance for the idea of white supremacy.. I am totally disgusted by racism in any form. Candace though thinks that today, white supremacists rank pretty low on the list of problems black Americans face today; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cUQqPxw3hc Is she wrong or are you just virtue signalling DTrammel?