I think we should give “boosted cop” and his buddy Tedecki the benefit of the doubt for now. They may have been specifically instructed to NOT fire their guns into the ground as a warning sign. Or they may have just been excited in the moment and trusted the Secret Service got the message and did what they were supposed to do.
You notice that of all the LEOs in the area, the Butler township police that were called in from traffic duty were the only ones who really seem to be trying to find Crooks before the fact. They apparently were not briefed in advance about what NOT to do.
so even if those cops were at that briefing, they still wouldn’t have fired randomly into the ground. “warning shots” don’t exist in real life, that’s Hollywood shit. you either negligently discharged a weapon, there was a bad malfunction, or you intentionally missed your target. if you guys want cops to use “warning shots” then get them some whistles.
The Boosted Up Cop most likely did NOT come from street patrol. Most likely he was on the Trump rally detail but at another location where he was listening to the radio transmissions and realized no one was doing anything effective about the suspicious guy at AGR. (The officers on the detail would be on their own special events radio band which was separate from the patrol band. If he was on patrol in the town he wouldn’t be hearing the rally transmissions.) I’ve heard the Boosted Up Cop is the Lt. from the Butler Township Police Department. If so, I can see him becoming frustrated over what he was hearing and finally deciding to go over to AGR personally and do what needed to be done. And good for him: he found the suspect in little over 60 seconds. Everything he does and doesn’t do after he drops down from the roof is inexplicable to me. (Maybe being the sole Lt in a small Department with just 21 other sworn officers and low crime, he might have little to no experience in life threatening situations, so he lost it.) Most importantly: where were all the cops and WTH were they doing?! (I’m sure that’s what Lt. was thinking too.)
One of the dropbox videos shows “boosted cop” driving around starting at 6:00 sharp. He get a notification at 6:05 and arrives at the AGR building at about 6:09, runs to the south side, then gets boosted, then runs to the south side again. Shots are fired at that point. Other dropped videos show at least two other Butler township police arriving on the scene from other places in the last few minutes.
I don’t think firing a gun at the ground qualifies as “use of force”.
It’s not specified, either positively or negatively.
This wouldn’t be a “warning shot” directed AT a perp. This would be a warning to the Secret Service. That’s a very special case.
Nobody has made the case that it wouldn’t work. And since “boosted cop” was in a little alcove with his buddy Tedecki, who knew what was going on, he wouldn’t have been in any danger if he fired a few rounds into the ground.
I have said elsewhere that we should give boosted cop and Tedecki the benefit of the doubt, since that would be thinking outside the box, and they were in a very stressful situation.
I don’t think firing a gun at the ground qualifies as “use of force”.
It’s not specified, either positively or negatively.
Shooting a firearm is using deadly force. Just because you point it at the ground doesn’t mean we get to change definitions.
This wouldn’t be a “warning shot” directed AT a perp. This would be a warning to the Secret Service. That’s a very special case.
Then argue with lawyers about it.
Nobody has made the case that it wouldn’t work.
Because we don’t have to. Hindsight is 20/20, sure, but there is no guarantee that the review board wouldn’t still hold that cop accountable for negligent discharge. They could have easily argued with the cop “you had your radio” and two other cops were with him, they could’ve radioed it in.
And since “boosted cop” was in a little alcove with his buddy Tedecki, who knew what was going on, he wouldn’t have been in any danger if he fired a few rounds into the ground.
Or he could’ve spent the 8-10 seconds it took him to get to his car to get his rifle out of the backseat and take a position to take a shot at Crooks? That’s not an issue? Randomly shooting into the ground is a better idea?
This dude already has his rifle, wouldn’t it make sense to even try to climb the patrol car to see if he can take a shot at Crooks? Why are you guys hung up over warning shots when they could’ve taken actual shots at Crooks?
I have said elsewhere that we should give boosted cop and Tedecki the benefit of the doubt, since that would be thinking outside the box, and they were in a very stressful situation.
I personally don’t give most of those cops the benefit of the doubt yet. I’ve watched too many bodycams and seeing all of them the way they responded and acted, idk like half of them are weird to me. maybe they’re new to the job or something, idk.
The hoisted cop exonerates only himself. Barely. Policemen, where I am from, dont drive that slow and dont really stop at stop signs when there is a possible active shooter with a large crowd.
Policemen def dont “hoist” up on a roof without knowing what is happening.
I honestly dont believe the body cam footage is real. looks fake to me.
People on this chat keep arguing whether the cops should have fired a warning shot, some people say it’s “against protocol” and whatnot. With that many people at risk they def shouldve fired a shot so that the crowd and the president wouldnt be standing still… it is unbelievable that a guy had to drive 8 min to try to stop crooks when there were “cops in the building”, “cops around the building”, “cops above the building”, “snipers with their scopes on the shooter”. all of it leads me to believe that they wanted the shooter to shoot. there’s no other way around it. if it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.
Policemen, where I am from, dont drive that slow and dont really stop at stop signs when there is a possible active shooter with a large crowd.
But no one got called for an active shooter. Also the guy was texting and driving the whole time lol
Policemen def dont “hoist” up on a roof without knowing what is happening.
By that logic they would never walk up to cars with tinted windows or go up to knock on doors.
I honestly dont believe the body cam footage is real. looks fake to me.
lol
People on this chat keep arguing whether the cops should have fired a warning shot, some people say it’s “against protocol” and whatnot.
It is against protocol, something they were all following that day. The ones that broke protocol were the snipers in the windows that chose to look around for Crooks, and then they lost sight of him somehow.
With that many people at risk they def shouldve fired a shot so that the crowd and the president wouldnt be standing still…
Then why aren’t you arguing that the cops should’ve taken an actual shot at Crooks? Why is a “warning shot” a better option? Plus there were three cops there, two in black uniform, and one in the grey uniform. They all could’ve got on radios, and probably did. Their command needs to answer why the calls weren’t sent through to the other channels.
it is unbelievable that a guy had to drive 8 min to try to stop crooks when there were “cops in the building”, “cops around the building”, “cops above the building”, “snipers with their scopes on the shooter”. all of it leads me to believe that they wanted the shooter to shoot. there’s no other way around it. if it quacks like a duck, it’s a duck.
Well I do agree that the cops acted very suspiciously. Personally I think one uniform cop, one SWAT sniper, and one person from the feds assisted Crooks in some way. There were way too many security flaws and confusion created among their own people for it to work out that way. the actions of some people almost seem scripted with how things played out.
I dont know how to do the green squares.
Green square #1
He obviously went towards the AGR building for a reason-he should run some stops signs-he’s too slow
Green square #2
Policemen, where i am from, are very cautious, and draw their weapons and beat people’s ass before they are in danger, but his position was not a good one because he couldnt do any of that
Green square #3
it’s been awhile since the shooting, does body cam video always come out a month later?
Green square #4 & #5
It is possible the cops didnt fire a blind shot at crooks, or even a wild shot because they were supposed to have guys upstairs and they might be shooting into a place where their friends might be stationed. A wild shot coould hit someone mistakenly on the other side of the building or something. a shot of any kind (in the ground" should have engaged the SS to dogpile trump.
The fact that the snipers left a position of higher elevation to go to a position of lower elevation is as idiotic as any event that happened that day. I dont think it’s smart to give up high ground when you have a vantage point of the shooter.
Green square #6
The longer we have no evidence and no explanation from the secret service the more things get confusing for the Citizen’s Investigation. There is NO WAY crooks acted alone, and there is NO WAY he could have walked on top of a roof with a gun. It’s just not possible.
He obviously went towards the AGR building for a reason-he should run some stops signs-he’s too slow
Well we don’t know what was communicated to him. If it didn’t sound urgent he wouldn’t have a reason to go fast. Doesn’t seem he ever activated his sirens.
it’s been awhile since the shooting, does body cam video always come out a month later?
We’re lucky we got anything. Sometimes it can take months, or over a year depending on how big the investigation is, which agencies are involved, etc. Some agencies respond quickly and let you have everything, other’s it feels like you’re pulling teeth.
It is possible the cops didnt fire a blind shot at crooks, or even a wild shot because they were supposed to have guys upstairs and they might be shooting into a place where their friends might be stationed. A wild shot coould hit someone mistakenly on the other side of the building or something. a shot of any kind (in the ground" should have engaged the SS to dogpile trump.
If they don’t want to engage the target, then they would be rolled over the coals for not using their radios first. We can see the cop that climbed the roof did use his radio, we just don’t have the audio for it. Why that call didn’t go through command and make it to Secret Service is what they’ll have to answer for.
Cop who climbed on the roof (POV we’re seeing) didn’t know all of them weren’t on the same frequency.
Cop on the left at one point says he has no idea who he’s talking to on his radio, it feels like he’s talking to himself.
So the command needs to answer why their communication for a security detail failed so spectacularly.
Because as it stands right now, we have to believe that they were able to spot this guy, follow him around a bit, get his pictures circulated, and they reported him being on the roof at 6:10PM, and a “long gun” was reported to be seen. But somehow the last two bits of information never made it out in time. Or if it did, no one cared to respond.
Patroler’s bodycam footage started at 18:00:00,
he received some radio message at 18:00:30 and immediatelly speeded up his car.
Stopped around the water tower at 18:08:20
(Shooter appeared on anoter footage at 18:08:30, so he would be able to see him.)
He arrived at AGR building at 18:09:01.
He was boosted up at 18:10:55.
First shot rang at 18:11:32.
He was driving relatively slowly before a certain radio message, looks like patroling. At 18:01 they did not have (¿public?) knowledge of rifle. I guess he had to look for a person of suspect around the buildings. So he just speeded up his car a little, ceased patroling. At the water tower he learnt an individual on the roof was, so the situation escalated. Two minutes later he saw the rifle.
It is a clear sign of an inside job that these patrol cops could come from 4+ minutes (maybe as much as 8 or 9 minutes) away by car (equals a mile or several miles away), to arrive and attempt to intervene, when there were dozens of SS and LEO at that location or within moments away by foot or golf cart or gator, effectively within visual confirmation.
No explanation for this other than MIHOP or LIHOP or a gray area combination within the units. Primary folks were MIHOP, and they influenced LIHOP and/or some incompetence by bad planning, confusing orders, perhaps mis-information or not timely relaying information to others, etc. For instance, Nicols apparently waited a long time to relay his info on Crooks, and did so via text. Others relayed info by email, rather than radio, etc.
I suspect that boosted officer and partner were not in on the MIHOP or LIHOP, and stationed far enough away to be “irrelevant” to the plan. They intervened and were probably shocked to see no local officers on the roof or intervening to stop an obvious threat. These two were probably mentally very confused and didn’t know how to react to such an obvious threat and this delay trying to figure out what was happening likely explains why they didn’t take shots, as they tried to assess the situation.
Let me dial down. From the perspective of these two arriving officers, they MUST HAVE reasonably believed that local officers on site would be able to secure this roof, handle the situation, etc. in the 4+ minutes, maybe as much as 8 minutes or more, it took them to arrive. Imagine arriving and seeing a plain clothed guy on the roof. You have no idea who it is, or if he is the threat or if there’s more to the story. So he ran to the front of the building to assess what was going on. THEY probably didn’t want to fire at Crooks without a better idea of what was happening. It would have been totally and unbelievably confusing, the main reason is “With dozens of LEOs at this location, why are we the only officers confronting this threat?!?!?”
So, on balance I cannot fault these two operating with imperfect information, no good angle to shoot at Crooks (the backdrop the rally and the rest of the grounds), and a totally chaotic confusing situation (e.g. is he a plain clothed cop, has this situation been resolved, why is no other officer doing anything, etc.?).
I agree 100% it would have been justified to fire into the dirt/grass in a safe direction. Rules and laws can be broken in a life/death emergency, which this was. See my explanation above, as to my insights as to these two cops seeming to lack initiative and act definitively. I bet their brains were very confused as to why no cops locally had done anything or if this was a plain clothed guy and this was resolved, or what was actually happening.
If we put ourselves in their shoes, it would have frozen our brains with confusion why they came from 4 minutes away by car, and local cops hadn’t confronted a man with a gun on the roof yet.
Uh, no. I shot guns yesterday. I wasn’t using deadly force, which is a crime. My bullets landed harmlessly in the dirt. Deadly force is only being used when the gun is pointed/shot at a person/animal.
An argument that would easily fail as we know that nobody was doing anything and had been presumably using radios. He could have easily justified it because minutes had gone by with radios not resolving the threat.
Agreed they could have climbed on tops of vehicles for better observation and possibly take a shot when they have verification, but we know the assassin shots were just moments later probably before they could truly assess the situation. Clearly these cops coming from long distances away were wildly confused about the situation that allowed someone on a roof with a gun, and why no police were even attempting to stop him. Shooting at people into an unknown situation with a backstop of a rally would be problematic.
100% agree, I’d have applauded him if he took out his side arm and dumped 5 rounds in the dirt in a safe direction. Sound travels 1200 fps, everyone in earshot would have heard gunshots in a fraction of a second, which have caused Trumps SS detail to react to get him off stage, Crooks would have to make decisions, the rest of the crowd would be reacting, moving, etc. Nobody would have faulted this cop. He’d have been a hero.
Read my analysis above. What if Crooks was actually a plain clothed LEO addressing the actual threat, and they shoot a good guy? I believe these two could have been extremely confused to the actual situation, since they came from 4+ minutes away and no local cops were seemingly doing anything… From their perspective they were likely completely confused.
Uh, no. I shot guns yesterday. I wasn’t using deadly force, which is a crime. My bullets landed harmlessly in the dirt. Deadly force is only being used when the gun is pointed/shot at a person/animal.
They were at a political rally.
An argument that would easily fail as we know that nobody was doing anything and had been presumably using radios. He could have easily justified it because minutes had gone by with radios not resolving the threat.
I’m just working with the current timeline. If you want to be another one of those people that just yells at me that everything is fake, our conversation can pretty much end at this comment then.
Shooting at people into an unknown situation with a backstop of a rally would be problematic.
So taking shots at target = problematic. Negligent discharge into the ground = perfect solution.
What convinces you that had a negligent discharge had gone off that Secret Service would have ushered Trump immediately off of the stage? They gave him two 5’5 women in his security detail, one who didn’t even know how to holster her weapon. When they jumped on him they were asking “What do we do?” you have faith in these people to pull off an extraction immediately upon hearing gunshots? Okay, that’s fine, but wow the mental gymnastics one has to do to arrive at that conclusion. These people were so inept they let a dude run around the grounds and rooftops for over an hour, but they were at the same time so focused and ready to take Trump off of the stage. Incredible!
This is like that one guy thinking the 2nd shooter is a pro but he can’t hit shit despite having a better shooting position than Crooks. Like…it doesn’t add up, spend more than a minute thinking about what you say lol
