Maybe. “Revolutions by definition are unpredictable” Y. N. Harari wrote. We don’t know what would actually happen if our “Cobretti” shooted into the grassfield. I’m not sure he would be a hero of the day, since “nothing happened” yet, just he ruined the show.
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To an earlier point, RADIOS had been communicating a threat for 8+ minutes. Boosted officer who saw a possible/presumed threat could have (and should have) concluded RADIOS were not the solution.
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I dare say you don’t know the definition of “negligent discharge.” Look it up.
Five shots directly into the grassy dirt in a direction (east, for instance) to prevent a murder/assassination where immediate communication to everyone of a threat and where there were no people would have been safe and probably the best and fastest way to communicate to every person in hearing distance to react. -
In an legit emergency, you can break applicable laws with justification and without consequence, while the law/rule still applies the violator has an affirmative defense: Speeding. Stealing. Trespassing. Or Self Defense, for instance. Or firing your gun into the dirt in a safe manner to attempt to prevent a assassination to warn everyone in the fastest most efficient and effective way during an immediate threat of assassination. If they had authority to murder Crooks (which they clearly did) a lesser action of firing a 9mm into the dirt is clearly within reason. Firing a pistol in an entirely safe direction into the dirt is how a clearing barrel operates FYI. It’s a pile of dirt surrounded by a metal barrel to catch any tiny fragments that might go 20 feet but would not be fatal to anyone, might cause someone nearby that is hit a minor pin prick. At firing ranges on steel targets I’ve been hit by “pistol shrapnel” and it causes little more than a paper cut.
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Trump ducked down after the first 3 shots. Critiques of the women on his his security detail are legit and fair, but they all jumped on him moments after the first 3 shots. After that it’s irrelevant for the purpose of this analysis. An officer firing say 5 shots harmlessly into the dirt would likely have caused similar response for Trump and put the SS team in motion to evacuate him. And counter snipers to actually do their jobs and look at the rooftops. A critique of the SS actions immediately after the shots is fair game, but that is omitting that gunfire is what put Trump on the deck and his human shield atop him to protect him and shield him from vision and shots.
I think it would aid your analysis if you put yourself in the shoes of boosted officer and allow yourself ONLY the knowledge he knew at that moment and what is reasonable actions were. I have written you here about my analysis in other threads if you care to read them. But his information was relatively limited at that moment.
- Many people repeat their ill-informed opinion (oddly contrary to the obvious evidence) the shooter “couldn’t hit shit” and those people are incorrect and demonstrate a lack of grasp on the facts and/or inexperience with firearms and ballistics. Trump was presenting a perfect temple profile to the would-be assassin. At the same millisecond the assassin pulled the trigger, by divine intervention, Trump shifted his body and turned his head to the right. That body and head movement turned a fatal (definitely un-survivable) head shot into a ear-graze wound. A gust of wind might have also pushed the bullet as well. The shooter then took 2 quick (and less accurate) follow up shots. The shooter did everything right, Trump just got very very lucky. Had Trump not moved his head would have been canoed and he’d have died right there from the first gunshot.
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Guys. There is a problem with the Butler Bodycam BWC2-122104. I saw that the officer ran a bit early so I went to double check the timestamp of this bodycam. I synced the time by comparing the time the lady with the white dress flinches at the fence (2:44 in the bodycam footage). That is the time the first shot fires. Compare it to the footage in the dropbox titled: Footage Shows Chaotic Moments as Shots Fired at Trump Rally
This means that the footage is 13 seconds behind.
Rewatch the footage while calculating that the shots does not start at 18:11:33 but at 18:11:46. In corrected time the officer starts running at 18:11:11 a full 22 seconds before shots were fired. That is a few seconds after the officer in Bodycam footage BWC2-122110 alerts people of Crooks weapon in the radio. You can also see the south sniper team Hercules 1 is already looking north.
I don’t believe it is possible that this officer kept quiet or that noone knew something is wrong at that point behind the stands, especially the Counter Snipers.
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There are two videos, both sides of podium. Seconds before the first shot the bodyguards tell the journalist to leave.
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What we know for sure is Greg comes out door of Bld 6 two minutes after first shot fired.
What we don’t know is where was Greg from 6:04 till seen coming out door.
Note that all LEO’s are desperately trying to get on roof / eyes on Crooks.
Greg’s job and post on 2nd Floor had 4 different window to get eyes on him and one on east wall would have allowed him to get on roof.
No matter where he was inside the building should have been back on his post after first shot in less then 30 seconds.
I contend Greg was never outside of building until 2 minutes after 1st shot. Somebody prove me wrong by showing video of Greg outside.
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There are more police cars in the parking lot.
Apperanly they arrived earlier.
Did day have dashcam?
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Good question. We need to know not just for Greg but was anybody looking outside for Crooks or were all them looking out in woods towards the Sheets Station where they were purposely directed to.
Report 18:05 Crooks last seen at picnic table then heading toward Sheets when (Greg) lost track of him.
Judging by BC footage of officer on foot out by road heading toward Sheets at 18:04 that this message had to come even sooner.
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I believe a plausible theory worthy of investigating in Nicols and his unnamed and still unknown sniper buddy, knew Crooks was moving into position and left their post under plausible deniability "to find that suspcious guy, whoops I’m locked out, please come let me in), established a 1 person sniper nest in a south facing room (bathroom, perhaps?). Nicols kept watch, could alert his partner that Crooks was probably in position, saw the cops rushing around outside to relay the urgency of getting his shots off, and secured building from entry, and his buddy crawled into position and fired off his 3 shots and scurried out, cutting himself in the process.
This theory accounts for:
- Explains the suppressed and metallic rifle reports, with longer cadence between shots. Different sound and cadence than Crooks.
- Same general trajectory, angles, and acoustics distance as Crooks.
- Offers a more plausible explanation why Nicols and his partner were gone over inexplicable 6 minutes from their overwatch position, weapons, and gear. Especially his partner, I would think he could run down stairs and let in Nicols in under 20 seconds.
- Explains why Nicols is standing at the front parking lot East door of AGR#6 immediately (less than 2 minutes) after the shooting. Why would he venture down there if the dead sniper is on the roof in view of his post?
- Explains the blood in the bathroom, without evidence of any injured person entering or exiting the most direct pathway from the area where LEOs were trying to scale the wall, and the parking lot for egress of medical care (e.g. ambulance, ride to the hospital, etc.). No injured person enters or leaves and no blood drops seen in a clear video of the polished cream colored tile floor.
- EDIT: That “extra rifle” has been identified as a Halligan door breaching tool with high level of certainty.
- Why are we uninformed about Nicol’s partner’s name, and also the name of the alleged injured cop and his status? Very suspect.
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I dont think the cop in the neighborhood had any business going on the roof. Def couldve fired some unlawful warning shots. Take the leave of absence for breaking protocol. Wouldve saved lives.
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I wish you could explain this more clearly because I think the body cam footage is off too.
thank you
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There is no proof that the security detail would have immediately rushed Trump off the stage after “warning shots” by a cop 150 yards away. 3 Shots were fired at Trump before Secret Service reacted, he had to duck down for a response to happen.
This is who you’re putting faith into.
It makes more sense to want the cops to take actual shots at Crooks. Cops shoot like that all the time. Have none of you people gone on YouTube to look at bodycam shootings? Never seen a cop get into a gun fight on a freeway/highway with cars passing by, and houses/businesses in the background? No? Never? But shooting at an assassin is bad because “omg people are behind him”, but a negligent discharge into the ground will magically teleport Trump away.
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Intolerance,
We have video showing the secret service ushering people out of the line of fire behind trump. This was seconds before shots were fired. Hercules 1 switched their aiming point from one side of the barn to the other. The secret service def knew there was a problem. Whoever was in charge of the secret service decided to keep trump on the podium. Whoever was in charge of the secret service should be implicated in a conspiracy to assassinate trump. There is no other way around this.
The reason why other people are saying that an officer should have fired a shot is because the target was trump. and shots fired would have been better than doing nothing. the reason why trump is so important is because whoever pulled the trigger was trying to change the election. Trump represents the free election choice. so you break protocol.
The fact that officers left their post on the second story is absurd and cannot be rectified with stupidity. whoever left the second story should be implicated in the conspiracy.
the cop running up onto the roof is a complete scam hollywood movie. no one would pop their head up on a roof knowing there was a gunman unless they were able to draw their weapon. it’s impossible. the footage of the guy getting hoisted is not real.
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Here is another way of looking at the “propped up” event. Assuming that LEO was part of the plot, he probably did it just for show to make it look like he tried to find Crooks, and in the process of doing so confirmed Crooks was in position to start shooting. There are alternative ways of looking at things like this. Like an old colleague of mine used to say, “Hard telling, not knowing.”
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Vegas,
I can agree with your assessment. The only way you pop your head up is if you know for sure you aint getting shot in the face. If they told crooks they may pop up and check on him that’s fine. your assessment is still in the hollywood movie category. I’m fine with any hypothesis except someone saying that it happened for real.
I was thinking about my attic. If i heard someone in my attic what would i do? My attic has a pull down ladder. I guess i’d pull the ladder down towards me. But i’d have a really hard time going up the ladder. you just arent on high ground. No matter what you do your head has to poke out first. it’s too much of an advantage for the guy who has the high ground. If the cops mom was on stage then maybe he pops his head up.
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A beat cop couldn’t possibly know the precise reactions of Trump’s SS detail and qualifications. But he could certainly take the chance to fire emergency shots into the ground, say 5, to get emergency responses in motion. Apparently that would have been better than literally doing nothing, which is what he did after seeing Crooks and running away.
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I think Crooks fired about 30 seconds after his encounter with Boosted officer. Trump hit the deck 2 seconds being shot at (and hit). But the sounds of the gunfire contributed to him hitting the deck. The crowd could hear the shots too and reacted. His SS detail was on him in 2 seconds, or 4 seconds from the shooting. When I learned math, 2 seconds and 4 seconds are before 30 seconds. Did his SS detail perform expertly, that’s debatable. They did put their lives in harms way, regardless of their individual expertise. I have heard experts level criticism and praise. Nobody is perfect. But they reacted as fast as humanly possibly upon hearing shots and seeing Pres Trump go down. I firmly believe had the boosted officer fired shots safely into the dirt, Trump would have been shielded and moved to safety and Crooks eliminated without any fire or certainly not accurate fire.
You’re speaking to me (and others) like we’re idiots and rookies. I’m a decorated Iraq combat vet, qualified expert and sharpshooter with 2 weapons, and have owned/shot guns for 25 years civilian. I’ve logged thousands of hours watching police and military videos, suspect interactions, violent encounters between civilians, self defense courses and videos, etc.
I have yet to read on any of these adult discussions that someone didn’t want the cops to shoot Crooks. So right there you’re misrepresenting certainly MY position. Go re-read MY position. You either refuse to understand it or cannot understand it or haven’t digested it.
I plainly in English wrote that the two traffic officers who came from 8 minutes away, first hearing the call of a man with a gun on the roof at 6pm and arriving at 6:08, must have been in total shock and confusion about what was occurring. Taking a shot without knowing all the facts is not advisable. He might have been a plain clothed cop for all they really understood given the fact NOBODY on the location had been even trying to ID or stop this person with a gun. That is NOT a hard concept. And radios apparently were NOT relaying the urgency of the situation. These two cops must have not understood what they were seeing or experiencing, hence their odd and indecisive behaviors.
Shooting at an unknown target in a situation you just arrived upon, when no other cops seem to be engaging him after 8+ minutes, would have been dangerous and risk shooting an innocent unidentified person. I think this is why the officer runs to the front of the building, to try to decipher what is going on. Maybe the thought the threat was on the front roof or on the courtyard in front of the building. WE don’t know but he was clearly confused with incomplete information.
Also, firing at Crooks from the only vantage of the E. AGR parking lot puts a lot of people in harms way if you miss. Rules of guns, always be aware of your backstop. A missed shot taken from the middle of the parking lot, literally goes right into the crowd of ten thousand people.
(Edits were correcting cardinal directions for clarity/correctness.)
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I think that cop might have immediately gotten on the radio. I think we may not hear it on the AGR 6 door dashcam video because the system may be made not to emit sound for its own officer’s transmissions. Hopefully on some other recording we’ll hear what, if anything, that cop said on radio after he fell down.
Oh we definitely see on DJStews video that cop tries to radio, and tells the crowd south of AGR6 to “get out of the way.” Odd, really. But he effectively does nothing.
Radioing commands/warnings already either not being received or being ignored is doing nothing productive.
I accept what you’re saying, but please help somebody who’s mentally the opposite of a cop – what would have been a good thing to do in that situation?
I’m not a cop but I do have military training/background/experience and a working understanding of general police work due to my professional connections, etc…
This officer would have surely been confused. He overheard a radio call of a man on the roof with a gun at 6pm. He drove 8 minutes across town, and fields, to arrive and see no police doing anything but then he himself saw the man on the roof with a gun. This would have been extremely urgent, yet very confusing as to how this is happening, and why is no cop, SS, snipers, nobody doing anything about it. The thoughts would be personal fear, concern this is a prank or training exercise, possibly this is a plain clothed officer taking aim at a assassin somewhere else, all the way down the spectrum to this is a real assassin. He would know he does not have all the information.
But he could also assess Trump is on stage, which would be equally confusing, because Trump should not be on stage if there’s really a man with a rifle on the rooftop.
He’d have mere seconds to figure this life and death situation out with clearly imperfect information. A reasonable decision priority tree would be like this:
- Trump needs to be alerted and protected, that’s a top priority.
- For unknown reasons, possibly radios not working or a communication problem, nobody is doing anything to get Trump off stage, and address this threat.
- Officer must alert Trump, his detail, and all law enforcement using a tool louder than his ability to shout. That leaves radio (which has proven ineffective based on 9 minutes of inaction by others), his police siren (a slow, confusing thing to deploy and understand, not urgent enough), or his sidearm firing it safely into the dirt in a safe direction to the east. Unlike a police siren, whistle, or bullhorn (all of which could be mis-interpreted) gunshots are distinctly threatening and would have put all security in motion.
Note, in the forests if a person is lost, injured, or an emergency a distress call is firing 3 shots into the ground to alert others of an emergency.
That’s MY opinion of the situation, and analysis, unapologetically from my armchair quarterback vantage point.
I’m not going to judge him too harshly though, that would have been a very hard position and test to find oneself, with less than 30 seconds to solve this very high stakes and extremely confusing field problem without much warning at all. He showed courage, initiative, and took some decisive actions that might have saved Mr. Trump by distracting the shooter and hurrying him and his shots.
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