no, but here you go… Thanks to your question, I positioned Trumps head a little bit so that he is speaking into the mic. I will include this new position in the next simulation update 5:
I know I watched (I think it’s Paul) on Legally armed America go through and try to explain why it looks really like crooks lying on the roof. I really can’t tell and I couldn’t understand what he was pointing out.
It always looked to me like it was not crooks but rather Yearick comparing all those photos. Maybe somebody in the group with a special expertise can compare the photos?
Lastly, I still could never find it realistic that this kid who apparently had never done anything aggressive in his life other than go to a shooting range could have the boldness and “courage“ to be running along a roof in the middle of the day , thinking he could actually get to carry out his mission.
I’m not saying it wasn’t crooks, but it all just sounded very, very unlikely to me unless he was radicalized, on drugs, or he believed that he had a clear path based on a conspiracy with some of the Law enforcement on the ground that day.
hello Schroederized,
what would you think about the impact of the first bullet in the JCB hydraulic lift?
in the following post, I elaborate a little on this idea:
bottom line: it is clear that the 1st bullet damaged the hydraulics of that JCB lift.
as a hydraulics system is extremely sturdy and has to deal with enormous pressures by default, and this system has been damaged by the first bullet, that can only mean that
- the shrapnel of the bullet that disintegrated (after it vaporized part of the galvanized rectangular steel of the railing) had still enough punch to penetrate the very sturdy hydraulics system, or that
- the bullet was not damaged a lot, was deviated only slightly and had still enough punch to penetrate the hydraulics system of the JCB lift.
in the second case, I believe it would make much more sense to use the JCB beam as the reference point of impact and the height of the tractor as height reference…
thanks for your feedback!
1.07 what? And I can’t tell from that picture what you are talking about?
We need the distance from his ear that was hit by the bullet to the microphone into which he was speaking.
Hi Howdoiknowthisinfo,
I don’t have enough information regarding the location or position of the JCB device that would help make an estimation of alignment of the shot that hit it. I only saw a glimpse of it in one of the videos when it was spewing hydraulic fluid from what I thought was one of the flexible high-pressure hoses. Obviously, once a hose (or even one of the hydraulic cylinders) was punctured, it would lose pressure and change position. I can’t imagine how one would be able to estimate an alignment or trajectory under those conditions. Regarding the hydraulic system being “sturdy”, as you put it, they’re not all that strong. The flexible hydraulic hoses are made to hold high internal pressures, but they’re pretty vulnerable to debilitating damage on the outside, especially to puncture when they’re under pressure and it only takes a pinhole. My opinion is that the point where the bullet struck the bleachers would have been a key reference point for determining where it came from, had it not been moved.
have a look at the images that I just posted in this message:
the height of the leak from which the hydraulic fluid escaped matches the height of the tractor next to it:
the elevation where the tractor stands + the height of the tractor (3.12m) is the elevation of the leak from which the fluid sprays…
this is a bird view of where the JCB hydraulic lift was located…
exactly in the extension of the line of fire from Trump over/through the corner area of the bleacher and then in the hydraulic lift…
the elevation of the John Deere tractor was 408.9m
the elevation of the JCB hydraulic lift was 408.7m
the height of the John Deere tractor is 3.12m, which would make the height of the impact around 408.9+3.12 = 412.02m above sea level…
somewhere in one of the posts the following closer up of the jcb lift after taking the hit was posted:
the type of the John Deere tractor is 8120T:
and its dimensions: TractorData.com John Deere 8120T tractor dimensions information
Howdoiknowthisinfo,
Good pictures, but I still see no way of establishing the X, Y or Z of where the lift was hit. The straight down aerial photo helps a great deal in establishing the location of the bleachers and stage. When I combine that info, along with the photos of the people in the bleachers and the cloud of galvanizing seen in the video, it gives a pretty good indication of where the first bullet struck. Just unbelievable that the crime scene was allowed to be dismantled so soon. I still want a complete survey of the rally area along with AGR complex done so we can get a fix on the elevations. Maybe we could take up a collection, or perhaps a local engineering firm would like some free advertising. Maybe PeakProsperity could spring for it.
What did you think of the super high-speed drone (or drones) flying during the rally and shooting? Who was flying those? Let’s see the video from them. Maybe another shooter on another building would be seen. Most certainly, someone else was involved in the attempt on President Trump’s life. Please see my post 519 from yesterday.
Thanks to Harryx for the original post on this video.
About this. I’m troubled by this. The guy scouts the place days in advance, which is a 1 hour drive from his home btw, builds a remote control to something, checks his zero the day before, brings a rangefinder, and buys ammo ON THE DAY? WHY? I’m sure he would have thought of ammo, chosen it and all… WHY DID HE CHOOSE TO BUY IT ON THE DAY? WHY A LADDER ON THE DAY? The guy plans enough to set up a remote control and decides to do late minute shopping? The guy either plans ahead or not… it’s a contradiction at first glance.
He didn’t even bring the ladder there.
The ammo is strange too.
Why not buy the ammo you plan on using in advance and practice with it?
Maybe he was told he was some sort of advanced security drill where they monitor both the purchases of possible explosives making tools and ammunition purchases for signs of domestic terrorism?
Maybe someone was telling him exactly what to do?
The whole thing is super weird.
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I don’t want to hijack this thread or spread misinformation, but are we even certain the first shot coming from Crooks’s direction is the one that hits the bleacher railing? I watched the videos available on PP and it looks like that bullet traveled down half of the entire back row from the people’s reaction. It also looks like the guy in the white shirt and red hat took the bullet before it hit Copehaver.
I’d say 2nd and 3rd bullets are more likely. Don’t forget we hear the swoosh of hydraulics leaking after we hear shot 3 on the video from Roger’s post #551. I don’t know how long it would take us to hear that swoosh after the line was hit, but I’d say maybe 2nd and 3rd round are more likely.
One thing is sure… Those guys on the bleachers were very, very, VERY lucky.
From the picture just below this quote, I’d say the 1st round hit below DD left elbow. 2nd grazed the rail where your yellow arrow is pointing at, and the 3rd one hit the hydraulic line just above Copenhaver’s right shoulder.
I believe this because
a. from the video at Roger’s post 551 we see not only the dust, but also the fabric moving violently just below, and a hard metalic sound
b. from the same video, we hear a lower metalic sound on shot#2
c.from the video, we hear the swoosh of leaking hydraulics right after shot #3
d. when one fires in such a short ammount of time (1.55 sec), the gun tends to move up and to the left, be it a semi-auto or an automatic weapon. If you look at videos on youtube about 5.56 m4 carbines with burst mode (which fires 3 rounds in rapid fire), you’ll probably see the gun trying to go up and to the left, due to recoil. Side note: i don’t believe Crooks used automatic or burst mode. He was on semi-auto, I believe.
here, I found you a video of that tendency of a gun to go up and to the left in a sequence of rapid fire.
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yes, the fast buriers of information did a very thorough job to make the reverse engineering of the event as hard as possible…
last week, I compiled a kml file (available from https://howdoiknowthisinfo.com/butler/snapshots/snapshot_current.zip) that represents my view.
it gives distances and altitudes and heights in feet, meters and yards.
there you can find the coordinates where I put the JCB hydraulic lift based on the information we had at the moment of shipping:
-79.97112266623199,40.85668312671275,3.12 for the hydraulic lift
-79.97099884455767,40.85698684915142,2.99 for Trump’s ear
-79.97048784435141,40.8582313115371,4.3 for the man who died on the roof of building 6
-79.97015846819109,40.85901508681097,9 for the location where I believe the real shooter shot from
earlier this week, forum member @rough_country_gypsy did an excellent drone survey of the area, and I am now stitching these drone images together to get an excellent current view of the rally area and the AGR site.
as soon as that stitching is done, the coordinates mentioned above will be finetuned, but I do not expect huge changes/differences…
when you open the kml file from the zip file mentioned above, you will find a folder called “horizontal planes”.
that is a very valuable (imho 
) folder.
when you select whatever altitude above sea level you prefer, it will blacken out all the objects and land below that altitude.
example: this is what you see by default in google earth pro:
after you tick 408.499999, you get this:
as you can see, there is some black creeping up, and everything that has been blackened out is below 408.499999m above sea level…
if you tick 409.749999, you get this:
this system has allowed me to determine the altitudes above sea level for all the points of interest in my kml file:
Trump’s ear on the podium
the bleachers
the roof of building 6 and the higher roof behind him (seen from Trump’s side)
the JCB hydraulic lift, etc, etc…
I am now adding ballistic trajectories to my kml generator such that we can evaluate which vent, window, door opening and roof or even tree top would make sense, as the ballistic trajectories add something very valuable to my model: the angle of impact…
the angle of impact is not guessable while using lines of sight…
given the almost horizontal flag, there was a very heavy wind, which means that if the wind had been a little less prominent, Trump would have died with certainty (the wind came from the side of the green, blowing the bullet (slightly but sufficiently) away from his face…
so, these are my two cents about coordinates
during next week, I will release an update of my current snapshot that contains these ballistic trajectories, but for now on, you can play with the straight lines of sight version…
something like this is what you get when selecting the current straight line of sights model under the assumption that the bullets were fired from the position where that man died:
these are the lines of fire when shot from the higher roof behind building 6:
and this is a combination of both to show that there is no noticeable difference between the different lines of sight:
the only (!) remark I got so far on this model is that “the position of the shooter on that higher building does not match the audio files”, and that is true.
I started analyzing the sound analysis, and what turns out?
Mike Bell states in his analyses that there are anomalies with the sound registrations of RealDjStew and the witnesses near the trees because they heard the shots TOO early…
by now, it should not be a surprise to you that both witnesses had direct line of ear (hehe) with that higher roof!
there is about 130m between the position I put the real shooter at and the witnesses who made recordings under the trees, and about 140m between that real shooter and RealDjStew…
after having added the ballistic trajectories to my kml file, I will calculate the sound patterns myself to corroborate the sound analyses, but many different concerns have been spotted with these analyses already:
- they do not all use the same (or even close) speeds of sound. Chris provided me with the speed of sound value that he uses, so that is the value that I will be using too for reference and validation
- they use average muzzle velocities, but do not consider the calibers and muzzle velocities that I would consider
- certain models need some help to validate whether a certain shooter position would make sense or not, and the analyses never considered testing that higher building…
so be it 
about your question about RealDjStew’s drone sightings in his videos: I only “trust” videos that have been made available until 1-2 days after the event.
I know of 5 videos that have these drone sightings, and it turns out that RealDjStew’s phone was confiscated by the fast buriers of information for 3 days… that leaves plenty of time to add some drone shaped smudges and launch the hoax that there were military grade fast flying drones at the rally…
I do not trust any eye witness or any news media reporting on these things.
I do follow Chris Martenson and Gary Menton from Paramount Technical and Gray Hugues Investigates and a couple of other great sources, but I do not take whatever they say for face value…
I have been a forensic researcher for over 20 years and an auditor of complex systems for over 27 years…
I only trust what I have corroborated myself based on various sources.
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hello Rough Country Gypsy,
the high roof that you droned is much more likely than what roger believes…
there are many issues with the 3D CAD model he uses, and these lead to the very horizontal line of fire.
I have been saying this for almost 2 weeks now, and to no avail…
the past few days, I checked the forum topics on the reconstruction of the rally site and the topic about going back to first principles.
what I learned is that several people before me have said exactly the same thing, but these messages have been ignored and ridiculed over and over again…
I find this highly worrisome, but I am a very naieve person and believes that it is important to point things out when they are wrong…
so, here we go again:
- the biggest issue is that only rounded values in feet are used for the different buildings, objects and persons. I pointed out many times that 1 ft is 30 cm and that if, e.g., the height of Trump’s ear (including podium and shoes) is set at 11.583 ft above the ground level of his podium, and his podium is at 1337 ft, then that may be 1336.501 ft above sea level, but it can be as easily 1337.499 ft above sea level. both will be shown as 1337 ft, and that is what roger uses in his model
- the same goes for the floor level of building 6 at 1335 ft and the bleachers at 1336 ft
in the kml file that I made available to everybody, everybody who wants to have a look at it can easily find out what ground levels I use based on a very accurate measuring technique (which I just explained in my reply to @schroederized so I will not repeat it here):
- the floor level of the infamous building 6 is imho 1338.58 ft and roger places it at 1335 ft. that is almost 3.6 ft TOO low… (shooter height at 1352.69 ft)
- the ground level of the podium of Trump is imho 1344.72 ft and roger places it at 1337 (Trump’s ear height is imho around 1354.5 ft)
- the ground level of the impact of the right bleacher is imho 1341.83 ft and roger places it at 1336 ft (impact height is imho 1352 ft)
so in the past 1.5 weeks, none of these ground level considerations have been taken into account, even though I have been stressing this over and over again…
this is a serious concern…
I do not want to hijack this forum either, and I have refrained from charging back at the people who have been gaslighting me, but what I have been saying and posting here the past 1.5-almost 2 weeks should really be looked at carefully rather than ignored and laughed away…
to end on a positive note, I am very happy that you and several other forum members are supportive and non-hostile, and I thank you all for this!
yes, the fabric moves down sharply, but that is imho due to the man in the dark t-shirt who leans to that banner and pulls it as such down…
that is true, but why would the real shooter use an M4?
this man shoots a Nemo semi automatic rifle chambered in Winchester Magnum 300 at a rate that is very compatible with 3 shots in 1.55 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/po7s1SHsrmQ
and the excellent Hickok45 shows even a full auto Browning BAR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2jRwp19csA
and when combined with a brass collecting bag attached to the gun, one does not even have to bother about collecting ejected shells…
note that I am not making the claim that the 5 shots were fired with a full auto Browning BAR, but I hope you get the point that there is no need for the real shooter to have used the guns that we are made to believe have been used!
as @bigtim pointed out, a weapon is nothing else than a tool.
a professional uses the tool that is best suited for the job and selects the weapon and corresponding ammunition that meets the requirements at hand.
for certain jobs, a knife will be best suited, for other jobs a rail gun and everything in between…
I have seen an analysis of what happened to that man. He was touching the railing when the first shot hit/pierced the railing and the man was so overwhelmed that he was completely stunned and reflexively went down.
that same man was filmed leaving the stands completely unharmed but slightly shaken up
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Ah yes, I forgot for a moment that you’re still focusing on that higher roof with a larger caliber, bipod,etc… BTW, I used the M4 as an example because I knew it had the burst mode, but it’s an AR platform… they all tend to go up and to the left when fired off hand like that, or prone on a rooftop like 'the man that died on the roof" shot (or would have shot, in your scenario)
Roger, what are your current SHOT/HIT elevations for YourRealShooter, Crooks, TrumpEar and RailHit ?
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it is all about terminology, he…
I use the term real shooter without caring whether it is crooks or somebody else…
if it turns out that crooks is the real shooter, I do not have to modify any of my claims, because they hold for the real shooter
from my point of view, the real shooter was somebody else than crooks, so, see it as a variable that has not been initialized yet, but is pencilled on the higher roof from my perspective and on the lower roof for those who believe in the lower roof theory…
I am very happy that you ask roger to come up with the parameters he has in his model, because when I ask anything, he ignores my request…
I have been trying to reconstruct the scheme he is so proud about called “ref 884-4”, but that is simply impossible, even though everybody admires it and swears by that scheme…
I asked him for over half a week now to tell me the angle between the front of building 6 and the blue line that connects the man on the roof and the right corner of the bleachers…
that is a very simple question, but there is no answer whatsoever…
I am a very naieve person, but why does it need to take so long to answer such a simple question?
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Actually there is a problem, because at that time several policemen were watching the roof of buildings.
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