I put File Browser on Brian’s server.
if you slide the transparency of the roof photo up/down, you will see that it is well aligned to the roof lanes
the angles and viewpoints are quite delicate to assess position and elevations, which is where the kml file comes in handy for comparison…
I think I did explain accurately the elevation correction.
When you superimposed the photo on the roof the photo is in the wrong geolocation because the roof is the wrong geolocation.
Let me prove this:
If you look on the East side of the building you will see the side of the building. That means the satellite picture is not perfectly top down. But inclined from the East. Also, by definition the edge the wall is vertical so any point on South East edge must have the same geolocation only with different elevations. But in this satellite picture it is not.
These are the geolocations of those reference points:
B6_SE_roof: 586778.46; 4523517.22
B6_SE_ground: 586779.86; 4523517.22
So which one is the right one? I consider the soil position to be the correct one and the roof position to be the wrong one. The roof geolocation is dislocated to the West by 1.4m in my measurement. That means the geolocation of the roof on that edge must be corrected 1.4m to East.
Crooks elevation is 3.8m in my estimations, so the correction must increase in the same proportion that results in 1.75m correction to East.
Since the correction varies with the elevation the superimposed picture is not correct at all points in the roof also, because the roof is inclined.
I disabled the 3d building view in my google earth pro configuration now and removed the absolute heights of the ground overlays.
this has removed the image distortions of the overlay images.
basically, this means that the overlays are now a vertical projection of the surveyor plane’s view.
I am including your coordinates as-is in my trajectories plotting, so there should not be too much interference from the different angles and perspectives.
for the coordinates you use for the point “Crooks”, is that his head or would that be the muzzle.
if not, what would you suggest for the coordinates of the muzzle of crooks’ rifle, and would you put that at 3.8m from the ground too, or at another height?
That elevation is for Crooks roof elevation. I will diferenciate the gun muzzle position and elevation and Crooks head position.
cool.
it may have been that crooks started shooting at a roof lane more to the side of the AGR parking than where he was found dead.
so, if you could differentiate the muzzle positions from the roof lanes you think are reasonable, I can include these…
I had that impression too but after my detail analysis I came to the conclusion Crooks was in lane 20 when he fired the first shot. Since he had an angle to aim towards the stage, the rifle muzzle was half way into lane 21.
This is a screenshot from the Dayve Stewert video, about 1sec befor he pulled the trigger.
Here is the final results with altitude and height.
The geolocation in degrees and altitude were obtained by this site conversion:
GPS Visualizer: Assign DEM elevation data to coordinates
The precision is 0.1m in altitude.
| ref | longitude E (m) | longitude N (m) | latitude (deg) | longitude (deg) | altitude (m) | height (m) | height method | altitude + height (m) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| RSBN_V3 | 586684.48 | 4523383.68 | 40.85692611 | -79.97151665 | 407.4 | 2.850 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 410.250 |
| NTD | 586691.16 | 4523403.54 | 40.85710427 | -79.97143464 | 408.1 | 2.850 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 410.950 |
| C3P | 586733.45 | 4523409.60 | 40.85715432 | -79.97093211 | 407.7 | 1.500 | guess | 409.200 |
| DRONE | 586719.64 | 4523375.42 | 40.85684794 | -79.97110066 | 406.9 | 119.000 | drone study | 525.900 |
| Corey | 586736.21 | 4523417.70 | 40.85722706 | -79.97089814 | 407.8 | 1.800 | guess | 409.600 |
| Source 5 | 586658.66 | 4523405.68 | 40.85712697 | -79.97181986 | 408.6 | 1.500 | guess | 410.100 |
| James_v3 | 586722.04 | 4523372.12 | 40.85681797 | -79.9710727 | 406.9 | 3.500 | pixel-degree conversion; altitude model SB | 410.400 |
| David_v3 | 586719.97 | 4523371.22 | 40.8568101 | -79.97109734 | 406.9 | 3.000 | pixel-degree conversion; altitude model SB | 409.900 |
| Trump_v2 | 586726.82 | 4523394.08 | 40.85701528 | -79.9710129 | 407.4 | 2.957 | 6 stairs of 8.25’+ pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 410.357 |
| Trump_MIC | 586726.64 | 4523394.28 | 40.85701706 | -79.97101497 | 407.4 | 2.837 | 6 stairs of 8.25’+ pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 410.237 |
| South Bleacher lower | 586722.47 | 4523376.15 | 40.85685428 | -79.97106701 | 406.9 | 1.500 | guess | 408.400 |
| TMX_v2 | 586740.37 | 4523498.02 | 40.85794999 | -79.97083764 | 407.8 | 1.500 | guess | 409.300 |
| Middle Bleacher NE | 586744.48 | 4523394.30 | 40.85701539 | -79.97080339 | 407.4 | 2.438 | 4 stairs of 8.25’ + guess | 409.838 |
| Dstew, bullet 1 | 586774.15 | 4523486.16 | 40.85783965 | -79.97043855 | 407.1 | 0.894 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 407.994 |
| Dstew, bullet 2 | 586775.89 | 4523486.19 | 40.85783967 | -79.97041794 | 407 | 0.486 | Dstew@1shoot - pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 407.486 |
| Dstew, bullet 3 | 586779.50 | 4523486.33 | 40.85784055 | -79.97037502 | 406.9 | 0.500 | guess upon fottage | 407.400 |
| Dstew, bullet 4to9 V2 | 586781.91 | 4523486.56 | 40.85784241 | -79.9703464 | 406.8 | 0.300 | guess upon fottage | 407.100 |
| Dstew, bullet 10 | 586775.11 | 4523488.07 | 40.85785673 | -79.97042692 | 407 | 0.100 | guess upon fottage | 407.100 |
| Dstew see Crooks | 586772.23 | 4523486.67 | 40.85784445 | -79.9704613 | 407.1 | 0.950 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 408.050 |
| source4, bullet 1 | 586693.00 | 4523528.92 | 40.85823332 | -79.9713953 | 408.3 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.700 |
| source4, bullet 2 | 586691.84 | 4523529.60 | 40.85823957 | -79.97140895 | 408.3 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.700 |
| source4, bullet 3 | 586690.60 | 4523530.21 | 40.85824519 | -79.97142359 | 408.3 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.700 |
| source4, bullet 4 | 586683.23 | 4523537.98 | 40.85831595 | -79.9715099 | 408.2 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.600 |
| source4, bullet 9 | 586682.84 | 4523539.08 | 40.85832595 | -79.97151437 | 408.2 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.600 |
| source4, bullet 10 | 586683.83 | 4523544.57 | 40.85837024 | -79.97151182 | 408 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.400 |
| Ross_V2 | 586683.91 | 4523543.33 | 40.85836408 | -79.97150106 | 408.1 | 1.460 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 409.560 |
| Crooks_muzzle | 586767.70 | 4523529.08 | 40.85822689 | -79.97050914 | 407.041 | 4.080 | pixel-degree conversion; altitude model B6 | 411.121 |
| Crooks_head | 586768.02 | 4523529.67 | 40.85823213 | -79.97050518 | 407.041 | 4.050 | pixel-degree conversion; altitude model B6 | 411.091 |
| South barn snipper 2 | 586763.45 | 4523360.11 | 40.85670541 | -79.97058311 | 406.9 | 7.466 | pixel-degree conversion 2 fottages | 414.366 |
| South barn snipper 1 | 586762.39 | 4523360.54 | 40.85670938 | -79.97059563 | 406.9 | 7.550 | pixel-degree conversion 2 fottages | 414.450 |
| SWAT officer Shot 9 | 586761.86 | 4523426.72 | 40.85730557 | -79.97059263 | 407.4 | 1.700 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 409.100 |
| Cruizer | 586793.39 | 4523525.12 | 40.85818848 | -79.97020489 | 406.2 | 1.200 | guess based upon cruize height | 407.400 |
I found an error in Ross position, 0.4m. It’s corrected now.
The Crooks position (1st shoot) was corrected for his head and the muzzle.
Here is the positions zoomed and the line of sights.
I just dropped a matching kml file on Brian’s server: //barf.bz/files/howdoiknowthisinfo/kml/vt.20240919.kml
if you download it, together with the //barf.bz/files/howdoiknowthisinfo/kml/images, you can browse through the overview:
@vt1 thank you, this is a gold mine for making sense of the report delays.
After correcting for your position changes, the largest report timing anomalies I have left are for the source you call TMX v2. You mark them as stationary. Their video is a spinning mess and I can’t tell what they are doing. Were you able to confirm which person was actually making this video and track their position and movements (I know they moved after the shots when they finally started pointing their camera intentionally)?
The whole audio timing triangulation solution now kind of depends on solving the position of this one source. No pressure 
Thank you @vt1 and @howdoiknowthisinfo for your geolocation work!
@vt1 , how did you derive your “altitude” column? Let’s look at Ross. If I use the “horizontal plane” data provided by @howdoiknowthisinfo, the ground level at Ross is 408.7 m. If I use Google Earth and do feet->m to get an extra digit, I also get 408.7 m. But your table says 408.1 m.
you are welcome!
I recently discovered the footage I have been looking for for quite a while now, namely that where the hydraulic line of the JCB hydraulic lift is punctured.
it is filmed from a single location, for which I produced an informed guestimate in the following post:
it also provides an uninterrupted audio trace without moving a lot and without too much distracting noise…
could you have a look at this one too regarding your sound analyses?
thanks!
This is a very good data source for audio analysis! Excellent suggestion. Will do.
Please provide the time in the video where you see the fluid spray begin.
Also, if you or @vt1 would provide geolocation, that would be appreciated. My rough estimate is 586629, 4523423
Already on it, discovered this today. I was wrong on this one. During the geolocations study I did not want to have my bias affect the results so did not look at the time differential off any source and the Podium, today I took a look I discovered exactly that TMX was indeed moving. My TMX_v2 position is only for the beginning of the fottage.
Will do as soon as possible.
28 seconds into the video, on the right hand side you see the JCB hydraulic lift:
4 frames later, the JCB lift is just beyond the right hand side of the camera, as the recorder pans to the left, and at the exact moment that the lift disappears, the bullet causes the hydraulic hose to burst and the spray starts:
you can see the first frame with the spray in the green circle:
the two other stills are the two frames after this first spray frame…
I am using VLC to visualize this video, and it does not show me the frame numbers…
when I ask the “jump to time” information, I see this: 8194:26:40,000 at the frame with the green circle…
the (lon,lat,alt)-coordinates I use in the kml file for the impact at the hydraulic lift are: -79.97112266623199,40.85668312671275,3.12
the impact height of 3.12m is a very good guesstimate based on the exact brand/type-specifications of the John Deere tractor next to it, and the spray is exactly at the same height of that tractor’s roof from various angles…
the coordinates for this footage is about -79.97205934066361,40.85717634199032
as far as the height is concerned, I would go for the same as what you use for the other chest-height human recorders…
thanks!
The altitude were obtained by this site conversion:
GPS Visualizer: Assign DEM elevation data to coordinates
The precision is 0.1m in altitude.
Okay. I see it clearly now. It’s at 29.062, which is exactly at the same frame that we hear Shot 3. Was there already a consensus that shot 3 was the one the hit JCB hydraulic?
Here is the Version 3:
| ref | longitude E (m) | longitude N (m) | latitude (deg) | longitude (deg) | altitude (m) | height (m) | height method | altitude + height (m) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| RSBN_V3 | 586684.48 | 4523383.68 | 40.85692611 | -79.97151665 | 407.4 | 2.850 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 410.250 |
| NTD | 586691.16 | 4523403.54 | 40.85710427 | -79.97143464 | 408.1 | 2.850 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 410.950 |
| C3P | 586733.45 | 4523409.60 | 40.85715432 | -79.97093211 | 407.7 | 1.500 | guess | 409.200 |
| DRONE | 586719.64 | 4523375.42 | 40.85684794 | -79.97110066 | 406.9 | 119.000 | drone study | 525.900 |
| Corey | 586736.21 | 4523417.70 | 40.85722706 | -79.97089814 | 407.8 | 1.800 | guess | 409.600 |
| Source 5 | 586658.66 | 4523405.68 | 40.85712697 | -79.97181986 | 408.6 | 1.500 | guess | 410.100 |
| James_v3 | 586722.04 | 4523372.12 | 40.85681797 | -79.9710727 | 406.9 | 3.500 | pixel-degree conversion; altitude model SB | 410.400 |
| David_v3 | 586719.97 | 4523371.22 | 40.8568101 | -79.97109734 | 406.9 | 3.000 | pixel-degree conversion; altitude model SB | 409.900 |
| Trump_v2 | 586726.82 | 4523394.08 | 40.85701528 | -79.9710129 | 407.4 | 2.957 | 6 stairs of 8.25’+ pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 410.357 |
| Trump_MIC | 586726.64 | 4523394.28 | 40.85701706 | -79.97101497 | 407.4 | 2.837 | 6 stairs of 8.25’+ pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 410.237 |
| South Bleacher lower | 586722.47 | 4523376.15 | 40.85685428 | -79.97106701 | 406.9 | 1.500 | guess | 408.400 |
| TMX_v2 | 586740.37 | 4523498.02 | 40.85794999 | -79.97083764 | 407.8 | 1.500 | guess | 409.300 |
| Middle Bleacher NE | 586744.48 | 4523394.30 | 40.85701539 | -79.97080339 | 407.4 | 2.438 | 4 stairs of 8.25’ + guess | 409.838 |
| Dstew, bullet 1 | 586774.15 | 4523486.16 | 40.85783965 | -79.97043855 | 407.1 | 0.894 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 407.994 |
| Dstew, bullet 2 | 586775.89 | 4523486.19 | 40.85783967 | -79.97041794 | 407 | 0.486 | Dstew@1shoot - pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 407.486 |
| Dstew, bullet 3 | 586779.50 | 4523486.33 | 40.85784055 | -79.97037502 | 406.9 | 0.500 | guess upon fottage | 407.400 |
| Dstew, bullet 4to9 V2 | 586781.91 | 4523486.56 | 40.85784241 | -79.9703464 | 406.8 | 0.300 | guess upon fottage | 407.100 |
| Dstew, bullet 10 | 586775.11 | 4523488.07 | 40.85785673 | -79.97042692 | 407 | 0.100 | guess upon fottage | 407.100 |
| Dstew see Crooks | 586772.23 | 4523486.67 | 40.85784445 | -79.9704613 | 407.1 | 0.950 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 408.050 |
| source4, bullet 1 | 586693.00 | 4523528.92 | 40.85823332 | -79.9713953 | 408.3 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.700 |
| source4, bullet 2 | 586691.84 | 4523529.60 | 40.85823957 | -79.97140895 | 408.3 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.700 |
| source4, bullet 3 | 586690.60 | 4523530.21 | 40.85824519 | -79.97142359 | 408.3 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.700 |
| source4, bullet 4 | 586683.23 | 4523537.98 | 40.85831595 | -79.9715099 | 408.2 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.600 |
| source4, bullet 9 | 586682.84 | 4523539.08 | 40.85832595 | -79.97151437 | 408.2 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.600 |
| source4, bullet 10 | 586683.83 | 4523544.57 | 40.85837024 | -79.97151182 | 408 | 1.400 | guess upon fottage | 409.400 |
| Ross_V2 | 586683.91 | 4523543.33 | 40.85836408 | -79.97150106 | 408.1 | 1.460 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 409.560 |
| Crooks_muzzle | 586767.70 | 4523529.08 | 40.85822689 | -79.97050914 | 407.041 | 4.080 | pixel-degree conversion; altitude model B6 | 411.121 |
| Crooks_head | 586768.02 | 4523529.67 | 40.85823213 | -79.97050518 | 407.041 | 4.050 | pixel-degree conversion; altitude model B6 | 411.091 |
| South barn snipper 2 | 586763.45 | 4523360.11 | 40.85670541 | -79.97058311 | 406.9 | 7.466 | pixel-degree conversion 2 fottages | 414.366 |
| South barn snipper 1 | 586762.39 | 4523360.54 | 40.85670938 | -79.97059563 | 406.9 | 7.550 | pixel-degree conversion 2 fottages | 414.450 |
| SWAT officer Shot 9 | 586761.86 | 4523426.72 | 40.85730557 | -79.97059263 | 407.4 | 1.700 | pixel-degree conversion 1 fottage | 409.100 |
| Cruizer | 586793.39 | 4523525.12 | 40.85818848 | -79.97020489 | 406.2 | 1.200 | guess based upon cruize height | 407.400 |
| TMX_v3 1shot -3.5sec | 586738.81 | 4523498.78 | 40.85795703 | -79.97085607 | 407.8 | 1.500 | guess | 409.300 |
| TMX_v3 1shot +4.82sec | 586727.82 | 4523504.09 | 40.85800606 | -79.97098572 | 408 | 1.500 | guess | 409.500 |
| TMX_v3 1shot + 1.42sec | 586729.91 | 4523502.69 | 40.85799318 | -79.97096106 | 408 | 1.500 | guess | 409.500 |
| TMX_v3 1shot + 11.90sec | 586722.5 | 4523509.35 | 40.858054 | -79.971048 | 408.1 | 1.500 | guess | 409.600 |
| TMX_v3 1shot + 14.52sec | 586718.39 | 4523512.2 | 40.8580801 | -79.97109638 | 408.1 | 1.500 | guess | 409.600 |
| TMX bullet 1 | 586732.48 | 4523501.59 | 40.857983 | -79.9709307 | 408 | 1.600 | guess | 409.600 |
| TMX bullet 2 | 586730.28 | 4523502.56 | 40.857992 | -79.97095669 | 408 | 1.100 | guess | 409.100 |
| TMX bullet 3 | 586729.65 | 4523502.89 | 40.857995 | -79.97096418 | 408 | 1.100 | guess | 409.100 |
| TMX bullet 4 | 586727.99 | 4523503.98 | 40.858005 | -79.97098363 | 408 | 1.100 | guess | 409.100 |
| TMX bullet 9 | 586727.43 | 4523504.42 | 40.858009 | -79.97099024 | 408 | 1.100 | guess | 409.100 |
| TMX bullet 10 | 586718.39 | 4523512.2 | 40.8580801 | -79.97109638 | 408.1 | 1.700 | guess | 409.800 |
TMX was obtained by interpolation from the times I could actualy locate the fottage.Here is original and interpolated geolocations.
I was able to find TMX on Source 4 after sincronizing the fottages. He is in the red circle at 14.5sec after 1 shot.
thanks @vt1 I will plug these in and see where we are at.
