Hi, welcome. The big 12 bodycam videos just came out recently, so I think not much audio analysis has been done on them yet, or at least not yet presented by Chris.
One thing that struck me about the AGR 6 door dashcam video is that the echoes on the first 3 shots are heard quicker than on the 8th shot. I’m just using my ears and haven’t pulled it into an audio program yet, but I think that’ll probably turn out to be right.Edit: I dunno, I brought the clip into my audio editor and it looks to me like the echoes are 0.145s after the shots.
If you think data might be new, please post it. The worst that’ll happen is that it’ll be redundant, no big deal.
This might help but the audio hasn’t been released yet. It also shows the CS on the south barn turn and reposition with about 1:15 before TC fires from #6
that’s the bodycam of their Lieutenant. given his location, it is possible that he recorded audio, but since he was around so many Secret Service agents, it is possible that they muted all audio to prevent sensitive information from getting out. then there is the possibility that he just never prompted his camera to start recording audio, since I think we have at least one other bodycam with the same deal.
Hi sir, I have zero knowledge about audio analysis. Thank you for the info. Have you seen this video? I think I hear a ricochet after the ninth shot. Maybe. It also sounds like two more shots right before the 10th shot. I hope someone can shed some light on this. I wish I had more knowledge about audio and ballistics.
I have added that dashcam audio to my sources. But as it came in late and is from a non-trusted source (government) I do not give much weight to this audio.
That first bodycam of the officer that was boosted up to see TMC, I thought that was very theatrical. Did anyone else feel the same? I find it hard to believe that that would be 100% authentic.
There is a line of analysis where the answer to “how … clocks were sync’d” is “no need to.”
So far, I have not seen anyone show concrete results of doing such. Dr. Martensen hints about this line of thinking in the video. The analysis I am suggesting is to calculate the shot-to-shot delay in the recordings from various positions. To summarize the basic logic: if (A) all the shots are properly identified in all recordings (i.e. we all agree that the recordings being analyzed all have shots 1-8), and if (B) none of the sources of audio nor receivers of audio moved, then (C) the shot-to-shot time intervals must be the same.
Again, if A and B then C must be true.
The interesting result of the analysis would be that we find C not to be true. In my opinion, C is not true, but its close enough to set an upper bound on how far B might have moved. Something like 25 feet, but maybe larger.
The most interesting result is if there is an analysis showing that not only is there is a difference in transit times at various recordings between, say, shots 1 and 4, that maybe it is also possible to put a LOWER bound on the corresponding distance. (a lower bound implies two separate source positions, i.e. two shooters.)
I am looking on this forum to see if anyone has done that analysis (and not seen it) and am trying to find enough data and remember enough math to do it myself.
TDOA analysis (see @greg_nichols work) has suggested that neither shot 9 or 10 came from either barn. Both came from just north of the audience/white tents, maybe near the red farm equipment. The same TDOA is also not quite precise enoough, as far as I can tell, to be certain whether shots 123 and 45678 all came from Crooks position vs near that position. Some of that imprecision is due to moving microphones.
So if it is true that the kill shot (which I assume is shot 10) came from the south barn (Hercules 1, I think), then this suggests the TDOA analysis for shot 10 is way off.
Either the TDOA is wrong, or the conventional wisdom that SS snipers on the south barn delivered shot 10 is wrong. They cannot both be correct.
I think its worth looking in more detail at the shot-to-shot delay times of the set of 1-3 versus 4-8. I generally agree with your analysis that they are close enough across recording positions to put an upper bound on how far apart those sources might be from each other. And I am very interesting in taking TDOA to more detail for the first 8 shots.
I think that a detailed computation that establishes the arrival times with more digits of precision might result in establishing a lower bound for differences in source positions that is above zero and physically plausible. I am not saying this result is guaranteed, but I am saying your youtube video does not establish shot-to-shot delay times in a way that unequivocally establishes a common source position for all of 1-8. (It literally concedes the opposite, but I can argue that the upper bound you conclude, 2m, is too low because of the very problem I pose: its not trivial to establish shot-to-shot delay accurately.)
Experience at a gun range (like Chris M has, and I share a little bit) makes it really hard to hear the recordings of those reports of 1-3 followed by 4-8 and then conclude they all came from the same gun. That feeling, of course, is a danger that might make someone like me likely to see something that isn’t there, but Chris M is experiencing the same problem. I think it remains at least plausible to consider that Crooks fired zero of the shots (has anyone found a recording of recoil or muzzle flash? I haven’t seen any yet.)
Visual: We have a fairly good video of Crooks in prone with shouldered rifle on the rooftop from location of source 4 west of Crooks. The first shot shows zero recoil movement of Crooks, even things he cannot control like his hair. Not any observable movement, repositioning for the followup shot, etc. I went shooting yesterday and have shot ARs for 2 decades and can confirm even a light recoil AR will cause some movement.
Forensics: First count of the shell casings, while casual, was 5 shell casings. Not 4, not 6. FIVE. Only later on the roof is the count of 8 given. Very suspicious.
Audible: The shots are NOT from the same gun, location, and hence person. They are too distinct in sound and that distinction cannot be explained. We have multiple sound/source analysis including some of the early ones by Chris that support more likely than not there were two weapons that day, some theories show more than two but I think at least and probably two. I wouldn’t bet too heavily on sound pinpointed location due to too many unknowns and variables.
We have video of Crooks prone during shot 1, and presumably then shots 2 and 3. Then there is a pause, but instantly after he shoots 4-8, we have more video of him prone and then killed in the same prone position. It appears highly likely to a near certainty Crooks was in the exact same prone position and orientation during all 8 shots. Given this, there is no human, physics, mechanical, echo, or auditory explanation that the first 3 shots sound remarkably different than shots 4-8 (except possibly different ammunition, but I doubt it).
Circumstantial evidence:
If we agree that this was an inside job (for which there is overwhelming direct and circumstantial evidence), then it stands to reason that there’s zero chance the powers that put this in motion and allowed it would bet everything on Crooks succeeding without a backup plan to wit, a professional shooter with similar Crooks line of sight and trajectory to ensure it got done.
He didn’t miss. He hit Trump 1 CM from a lethal hit. It appears that divine intervention, a unpredictable head turn and possibly a last moment gust of wind moved his head enough and pushed the bullet enough to not be a direct fatal hit. Trump then ducked down.
Quite directly and obviously the FIB and CYA is crooked and it is for the same reasons in the last 6 years:
The FIB/CYA refused to prosecute Hillary in spite of admitting she broke dozens of serious federal crimes and she refused to follow subpoena and destroyed evidence;
The FIB/CYA conducted long-term multi-year bogus investigations into Trump they immediately knew were false based on false information from Hillary camp opponent research that was false;
The FIB/CYA lied on FISA warrants to surveil Trump;
The FIB/CYA lied in the 2020 race about the nature, legitimacy, and content of massive evidence of serious felonies, drugs, hookers, illegal money sources, etc. connecting Hunter Biden, Joe Biden, etc. with huge $$$$ foreign sources of money, election interference and $$$ bribery and blocking Hunter from prosecution in Ukraine, etc. etc. etc. A laptop full of crimes. They lied about it, and got 50+ members of the “intelligence” community to lie in writing about it being Russian dis-information. It is all however now known to be true and they still haven’t admitted it or prosecuted him for anything;
The FIB/CYA raids on many of Trumps colleagues and Trump himself for nonsense, yet they do NOT do that to Dems or their colleagues for similar or worse conduct;
The FIB/CYA has been sitting on Epstein files for years, he was probably and asset, and they probably murdered him and lied about it. They have files they will not release;
Look at the brazen lies, stonewalling, and disinformation coming out of the FIB, Schutz Staffel, at the recent Congressional inquiries on this assassination try;
The FIB/CYA is involved in a long list of shady evil dealings on a daily basis - lies murders, assassinations, drug running, money laundering, election interference, toppling governments, dis-information, buying politicians and judges with money or threats or blackmail, etc. etc. etc.
Face it, the FIB/CYA is a criminal cartel run by totally corrupt evil people and is not going to tattle on themselves for their own failed assassination attempt, similar attempts they routinely do globally to disrupt and interfere in elections around the world for more power/wealth/influence.
i agree with this. I’ve been shooting guns for 2+ decades, including the AR15 in 5.56mm. I conclude from my ear, and from reviewing audio analysis, shots 1-3 are different than 4-8. Period.
These differences could be explained by different ammo, perhaps. But what a remarkable coincidence that 1-3 (different cadence and sound) are different than 4-8.
These differences could be explained by a rifle muzzle closer/father from a echo-ey metal roof or other objects to change the direction or type of echo. But we see from videos Crooks is in the same position for shot 1 as he is following shot 8 and there was no time to change positions sufficiently between shots 1-8 to seemingly account for a vast auditory difference. Nothing other than a different rifle/location/shooter accounts for the delay in echo or the obvious auditory differences in the shots/snicks.
One final point of strong circumstantial evidence: If you believe as I do that this was an inside MIHOP combined with LIHOP operation, there’s zero chance they would rely solely on disposable 20 year old Crooks. They’d put a professional shooter in a separate but relatively close unobserved position with the same class of weapon and similar trajectory to try to mask a 2nd shooter.
I can only conclude from the direct and circumstantial evidence these were at minimum two different rifles in different positions, requiring there be at least 1 additional assassin.
The analysis in question is called Time Difference of Arrival (TDOA) processing. It is based entirely on the travel of the muzzle blast, at the speed of sound, to the microphones. It does not involve bullet speeds at any point, and (if done right), avoids use of the shock wave ‘cracks’ that precede the arrival of the report.
It is very robust when there is a clear line of sight between the gun and the microphone. When the way is blocked, you get a complicated mess of refraction, echoes, and flanking paths (e.g., air → steel → air again). When the way is clear, the direct path, being the shortest, always arrives first, and subsequent echoes can be ignored.
When the recordings do not have a common clock (to the millisecond), TDOA must be calibrated by assuming the source of one shot. Then the rest can be located. Recent discussions give Crooks shot #1, and see what results.
Hey Greg, I did a simple simulation of the snick and the report.
The blue line is the Mach cone where the snick is, the red sphere is the report, both at the time I hit Trump. Those waves (cone and sphere) propagate maintaining proportion. between orange dash line is where will be possible to hear a difference from the report and snick.
I suggest you watch this video for better understanding.
I think is some point where Stew was in the first bullet it was possible to hear the snick but as he walks to the East he won’t hear the snick of the other bullets. TMX and Ross will not hear the snick.
(edit) The dashed orange cone has an angle of around 38 degrees.
(edit2) If you wish I can do a mathematical model to the difference of the snick and the report considering you are inside the orange dashed cone even considering the deacceleration of the bullet.
I disagree. I can see the recoil. I can also see the case ejection for shot 1.
Nope. We can actually see the cases he didn’t count when on hires downloaded from Grassley website. The guy who counted five the first time didn’t count all of the cases. He counts 5 on his side of the roof (north), the stops and only at a later moment he also counts the 3 cases on the south side of the roof.
Why? Because Martenson kept using the worst possible audio source where there’s obvious difference? Every other video has matching sounds between 1-3 and 4-8, yet you want to go with the worst quality phone, shaky camera, etc.
TDOA does not require a synchronized clock. All that matters is the time difference between the 2 sound recorded by mic 1 and the time difference between the same 2 sounds recorded by mic2.
If you wish, you can check out a graph I did on Desmos where you can vary the position of one of the sounds (a,b) and vary the difference of the two time delays (t) and see the possible locations of a ‘second shooter’ (blue dashed line):
