I wonder if FBI had gone thru all the videos and kept only the ones where crooks is not visible during the shootout and erased the rest.
Ofcourse the easier narrative is crooks was the lone shooter and SS and LEOs just made it possible by following some orders
The clocks must not be synchronised, but tick at almost the same rate, at least that is how I understand āj&Lā. The point is that the all selected (cell-phone) clocks should have an acceptable minimum rate deviation from each other.
This does make sense with these three microphones spread over around 10 ft with the way the car is aligned to the general direction of the shots. When trying to triangulate the audio source, each millisecond is about 1ft of distance.
Yeah, Iād have wondered if this didnāt made sense, and if this kind of sense would not point straight to AGR building 6. And by putting it together with the miraculously missing sound from the bodycam BWC2-122110 belonging to that roof-climbing Butler city police officer and driver of this very patrol car, my coincidence detector gets triggered again.
The bodycam BWC2-122110 is in file ā1382_202407131800_BWC2122110-0RATF.mp4ā
Edit: And I do wonder why I hear nothing from Trumps heavily amplified voice on the exterior streams. (Reply was addressing Kwaka/#344 above)
I took my 16" barrel, mid grade commercial AR to the range today and ran several different ammo types across the Chronograph. My chrono is spot on below 1100 fps, when compared to radar units. I have no reason to doubt itās data.
Ran 10 unknown rounds through the barrel to warm it up, including 5 on rapid fire. Donāt have a shot timer, so didnāt have any way of identifying how fast I actually cycled the trigger.
String one 10 rounds PMC X-Tac 556 XP193 55g
velocity 3058-3003
average 3035
Std Dev 18
String two 10 rounds American Eagle 223 Rem 55g
velocity 2943 - 2879
average 2914
Std Dev 23
String three 10 rounds Freedom Munitions 223 Rem 55g factory reman (reload). Another point on this, I only recorded 8 data points, I wasnāt allowing enough time for chrono to reset.
velocity 2989-2699
average 2904
std dev 47
String 4 10 rounds of my own plinking reloads 55g
Velocity 2886-2699
average 2763
std dev 60 (!!!)
I present this data to the team for potential use in the location calculations. Granted, itās a very limited subset, but the results are similar to what Iāve seen before. I will also add that generally in a gun store, 223 is front and center, 556 is something you often have to look for.
Shot 15ā from chrono to avoid muzzle blast data errors.
Cases generally dropped between 10-15ā away on a 30-45 degree angle rearward. I was standing while shooting.
Side note, itās been a long time since Iāve run my own reload across the chrono. Looks like I need to do some investigating 
Good work. As an experienced civilian and military rifleman having owned and used these platforms for 2+ decades, in posts many days ago, I suggested the likely variation range would be between 2900 to 3100 fps with the most common ammo in a 16 to 18 inch barrel AR15. I think your tests have verified my thoughts. Thank you for the testing.
Is there a permanent link somewhere on this website to this? I looked for it for a long time thru threads. Seems it should be linked or tabbed somewhere.
@cmartenson
Quick note on snick-boom times of 123 vs 45678 from podium mic as being diagnostic of a second shooter.
A 1 or 2 percent difference in time would mean a 1 or 2 percent difference in distance only if the muzzle velocities were identical.
If there was also a few percent difference in muzzle velocities, but in our calculations we assume equal velocities then we can be off by a lot, in either direction depending on which bullets were slower and which were faster.
I think TDOA analysis of the reports are likely to be more accurate regarding location assuming we have good enough data - particularly non moving microphones of known location.
But if the snick-boom times of 123 vs 45678 are significantly different on the podium mic recording - this is pretty strong evidence of a second shooter [edit - or maybe not, see below] : you just canāt say whether the second shooter was nearer or farther without knowing relative muzzle velocities.
The snick-boom time is also affected by accuracy of the shot. If the shot misses the microphone by an extra 1.15 foot, this will subtract about 1 msec from the snick-boom time (assuming speed of sound of 1150 feet per second).
Excellent point. So, theoretically:
Professional 280 meters away uses 5.56 traveling 3300 fps. Shots are closer proximity to Trumpās mic.
Crooks 140 meters away uses .223 traveling 2800 fps. Shots are 10 meters farther from Trumps mic.
The boom-snick report for these will be different, but how?
It gets worse. For the shot that hit Corey, the time for the sound of the report to reach the mic is unchanged. But the time for the snick to reach the mic instead of distance of shooter to mic divided by bullet speed, it is distance of shooter to Corey divided by bullet speed plus distance from Corey to mic divided by speed of sound. That could make a significantly shorter snick-boom time.
Hi everyone, this is pseudo stereo. Left channel is Trumpās mic, right channel is western footage.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1WTIh6bS5n4rRuG1pYIgFG1vaMyyZ1657?usp=sharing_eip&ts=66bbca56
(Note: this is all hypothetical, not real data)
Thatās a good question, quite a big difference:
Iām going to just use feet
| Crooks | Professional | |
|---|---|---|
| feet | 459 | 919 |
| Speed Round | 2800 | 3300 |
| Speed Sound | 1150 | 1150 |
| Snick-boom | 0.235 | 0.520 |
But suppose the difference in distance is not so great, say a 2nd floor window from the building just behind Crooks. Add an extra 53 feet. And letās reverse your speeds, so the Professionalās muzzle velocity is actually slower than Crooksā gun. And ignore the āmissed the microphone byā factor. You can engineer almost identical snick-boom times.
| Crooks | Professional | |
|---|---|---|
| feet | 459 | 512 |
| Speed Round | 3300 | 2800 |
| Speed Sound | 1150 | 1150 |
| Snick-boom | 0.260 | 0.262 |
Or suppose one shooter, second shot hits Corey.
Iām not sure how far Corey was to the microphone; Iām guessing 30 feet.
| Missed | Hit Corey | |
|---|---|---|
| feet | 459 | 459 |
| Speed Round | 2800 | 2800 |
| Speed Sound | 1150 | 1150 |
| Corey to mic dist | 30 | 30 |
| Shooter to Corey | 429 | 429 |
| Round to Corey | 0.153 | |
| Sound Corey to mic | 0.026 | |
| Gun fire to snick | 0.164 | 0.179 |
| Sound gun to mic | 0.399 | 0.399 |
| Snick-boom | 0.235 | 0.220 |
Bottom line; if we look at the shot that struck Corey, and if that shot still delivered a sonic boom to the mic (it may not have), this would lead to a shorter snick-boom time on the order of one millisecond for each 2 feet Corey was in distance to the microphone.
Do we have a group consensus on snick-boom times for each of the shots? And do we know which one hit Corey?
I looked up the temperature in Butler for that day and found ā93 deg Fā. Then I used an altitude of 408m and https://e6bx.com/speed-of-sound/ to compute the speed of sound as 351.18 m/s
You might want to check out this post. Itās the most detailed post on the subject Iāve run across.
Wow, @vt1, that video is really amazing! Thanks for sharing, and thanks for doing the supersonic cone illustration. I did some online searching yesterday to see if I could find how close you had to be to the path of a bullet to hear its sonic crack, but I was not not successful at finding a clear answer, or a formula.
I recently added the police cruiser that pulled up to the front door of the AGR building to my TDOA analysis. I expected it to provide some valuable insight to the scenario since I knew what its exact location was, and it did not move, whereas TMX and DJStew were both definitely moving. Unfortunately, instead of simply providing answers, the cruiser added more questions. On a positive note, I am seeing amazing consistency for the first 8 shots. The cluster is confined to less than 2 meters. However, shots 9 and 10 are now providing three potential solutions, and the locations implied by the Cruiser put the counter-snipers in the line-of-sight that would be occluded by the tree, so that seems unlikely. The attached PDF shows āpodium-centricā plots for the first 10 slides and āTMX-centricā plots for the second set of 10. With ācentricā meaning that the TDOA plots are sure to include āpodiumā in the first set and āTMXā in the second.
So, now Iām confused. Iāve tried some āwhat ifā scenarios, like what if the sounds being heard by the Stewert camera were sonic cracks instead of reports, but nothing Iāve tried has yielded any improvement/clarity to the TDOA hyperbolas. So, suggestions from you or anyone else are appreciated at this point!
My 4.4MB PDF file was apparently too large for me to upload this forum. So, here is a link to it.
| Description | Time | Diff |
|---|---|---|
| Snick 1 | 0.000 | |
| Report 1 | 0.221 | 0.221 |
| Snick 2 | 0.858 | |
| Report 2 | 1.075 | 0.217 |
| Snick 3 | 1.536 | |
| Report 3 | 1.748 | 0.212 |
| Snick 4 | 4.319 | |
| Report 4 | 4.531 | 0.212 |
| Snick 5 | 4.575 | |
| Report 5 | 4.787 | 0.212 |
| Snick 7 | 4.939 | |
| Snick 8 | 5.088 | |
| Report 8 | 5.306 | 0.218 |
Snick 6 is missing because the bullet hit Corey.
Reports 6 & 7 are not heard because audio AGC was overcome by snicks 7 & 8.
I estimate that reports 6 & 7 came in at 4.971 and 5.154 based upon the snick/report deltas of the other shots.
Iām reaching a solution for the time of the sonic slick considering the bullet deaccelerating. Still validating the formulation. I will study your plots. Iām thinking if you had more sources closer to Trump would improve the 9 and 10 shoot accuracy, like the RSBN broadcast source.
Sorry if I missed it, but did you take a look at this possible problem? I donāt know if itās correct, but it was high-quality. Now We Have MORE Questions (Pointing To LIHOP) - #450 by sonjax6
Chris thinks it might be shot #6 as it has a Boom without a Snick.
Greg I think that the accuracy has a lot to do if the dipoles receivers form a triangle and the source is inside the triangle. Therefore, the accuracy is high for Crooks position but not for Shots 9 and 10. There are other 2 receivers near the podium you can use.
Here is the Middle Bleacher POV, I triangulated the position from the flags and far objects.
Video footage moments before Donald Trump Rally assassination attemptā¦mp4 (dropbox.com)
I can hear 4 shots, IDK if there is more footage.
586744.37 m E; 4523392.48 m N; elevation 1343ft (409.34m) + height 13ft (3.96m)
Here is the RSBN:
The video has a small footage in the top right corner from another POV. IDK if the sound receiver is in that location. Maybe by the sonicboom and report time diference we can confirm the location.
586682.44 m E ; 4523381.43 m N; elevation 1344ft (409.65m) + height 10ft (3.05m)
