Audio Analysis Is Most Consistent Two Shooters At Trump Rally

Howdoiknowthisinfo,

Good pictures, but I still see no way of establishing the X, Y or Z of where the lift was hit. The straight down aerial photo helps a great deal in establishing the location of the bleachers and stage. When I combine that info, along with the photos of the people in the bleachers and the cloud of galvanizing seen in the video, it gives a pretty good indication of where the first bullet struck. Just unbelievable that the crime scene was allowed to be dismantled so soon. I still want a complete survey of the rally area along with AGR complex done so we can get a fix on the elevations. Maybe we could take up a collection, or perhaps a local engineering firm would like some free advertising. Maybe PeakProsperity could spring for it.

What did you think of the super high-speed drone (or drones) flying during the rally and shooting? Who was flying those? Let’s see the video from them. Maybe another shooter on another building would be seen. Most certainly, someone else was involved in the attempt on President Trump’s life. Please see my post 519 from yesterday.

Thanks to Harryx for the original post on this video.

realDJstew724 drone sightings UPDATED (youtube.com)

About this. I’m troubled by this. The guy scouts the place days in advance, which is a 1 hour drive from his home btw, builds a remote control to something, checks his zero the day before, brings a rangefinder, and buys ammo ON THE DAY? WHY? I’m sure he would have thought of ammo, chosen it and all
 WHY DID HE CHOOSE TO BUY IT ON THE DAY? WHY A LADDER ON THE DAY? The guy plans enough to set up a remote control and decides to do late minute shopping? The guy either plans ahead or not
 it’s a contradiction at first glance.

He didn’t even bring the ladder there.

The ammo is strange too.

Why not buy the ammo you plan on using in advance and practice with it?

Maybe he was told he was some sort of advanced security drill where they monitor both the purchases of possible explosives making tools and ammunition purchases for signs of domestic terrorism?

Maybe someone was telling him exactly what to do?

The whole thing is super weird.

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I don’t want to hijack this thread or spread misinformation, but are we even certain the first shot coming from Crooks’s direction is the one that hits the bleacher railing? I watched the videos available on PP and it looks like that bullet traveled down half of the entire back row from the people’s reaction. It also looks like the guy in the white shirt and red hat took the bullet before it hit Copehaver.

I’d say 2nd and 3rd bullets are more likely. Don’t forget we hear the swoosh of hydraulics leaking after we hear shot 3 on the video from Roger’s post #551. I don’t know how long it would take us to hear that swoosh after the line was hit, but I’d say maybe 2nd and 3rd round are more likely.
One thing is sure
 Those guys on the bleachers were very, very, VERY lucky.

From the picture just below this quote, I’d say the 1st round hit below DD left elbow. 2nd grazed the rail where your yellow arrow is pointing at, and the 3rd one hit the hydraulic line just above Copenhaver’s right shoulder.
I believe this because
a. from the video at Roger’s post 551 we see not only the dust, but also the fabric moving violently just below, and a hard metalic sound
b. from the same video, we hear a lower metalic sound on shot#2
c.from the video, we hear the swoosh of leaking hydraulics right after shot #3
d. when one fires in such a short ammount of time (1.55 sec), the gun tends to move up and to the left, be it a semi-auto or an automatic weapon. If you look at videos on youtube about 5.56 m4 carbines with burst mode (which fires 3 rounds in rapid fire), you’ll probably see the gun trying to go up and to the left, due to recoil. Side note: i don’t believe Crooks used automatic or burst mode. He was on semi-auto, I believe.

here, I found you a video of that tendency of a gun to go up and to the left in a sequence of rapid fire.

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yes, the fast buriers of information did a very thorough job to make the reverse engineering of the event as hard as possible


last week, I compiled a kml file (available from https://howdoiknowthisinfo.com/butler/snapshots/snapshot_current.zip) that represents my view.

it gives distances and altitudes and heights in feet, meters and yards.

there you can find the coordinates where I put the JCB hydraulic lift based on the information we had at the moment of shipping:

-79.97112266623199,40.85668312671275,3.12 for the hydraulic lift
-79.97099884455767,40.85698684915142,2.99 for Trump’s ear
-79.97048784435141,40.8582313115371,4.3 for the man who died on the roof of building 6
-79.97015846819109,40.85901508681097,9 for the location where I believe the real shooter shot from

earlier this week, forum member @rough_country_gypsy did an excellent drone survey of the area, and I am now stitching these drone images together to get an excellent current view of the rally area and the AGR site.

as soon as that stitching is done, the coordinates mentioned above will be finetuned, but I do not expect huge changes/differences


when you open the kml file from the zip file mentioned above, you will find a folder called “horizontal planes”.
that is a very valuable (imho :wink: ) folder.
when you select whatever altitude above sea level you prefer, it will blacken out all the objects and land below that altitude.

example: this is what you see by default in google earth pro:

after you tick 408.499999, you get this:

as you can see, there is some black creeping up, and everything that has been blackened out is below 408.499999m above sea level


if you tick 409.749999, you get this:

this system has allowed me to determine the altitudes above sea level for all the points of interest in my kml file:
Trump’s ear on the podium
the bleachers
the roof of building 6 and the higher roof behind him (seen from Trump’s side)
the JCB hydraulic lift, etc, etc


I am now adding ballistic trajectories to my kml generator such that we can evaluate which vent, window, door opening and roof or even tree top would make sense, as the ballistic trajectories add something very valuable to my model: the angle of impact


the angle of impact is not guessable while using lines of sight

given the almost horizontal flag, there was a very heavy wind, which means that if the wind had been a little less prominent, Trump would have died with certainty (the wind came from the side of the green, blowing the bullet (slightly but sufficiently) away from his face


so, these are my two cents about coordinates :wink:

during next week, I will release an update of my current snapshot that contains these ballistic trajectories, but for now on, you can play with the straight lines of sight version


something like this is what you get when selecting the current straight line of sights model under the assumption that the bullets were fired from the position where that man died:

these are the lines of fire when shot from the higher roof behind building 6:

and this is a combination of both to show that there is no noticeable difference between the different lines of sight:

the only (!) remark I got so far on this model is that “the position of the shooter on that higher building does not match the audio files”, and that is true.
I started analyzing the sound analysis, and what turns out?

Mike Bell states in his analyses that there are anomalies with the sound registrations of RealDjStew and the witnesses near the trees because they heard the shots TOO early


by now, it should not be a surprise to you that both witnesses had direct line of ear (hehe) with that higher roof!

there is about 130m between the position I put the real shooter at and the witnesses who made recordings under the trees, and about 140m between that real shooter and RealDjStew


after having added the ballistic trajectories to my kml file, I will calculate the sound patterns myself to corroborate the sound analyses, but many different concerns have been spotted with these analyses already:

  • they do not all use the same (or even close) speeds of sound. Chris provided me with the speed of sound value that he uses, so that is the value that I will be using too for reference and validation
  • they use average muzzle velocities, but do not consider the calibers and muzzle velocities that I would consider
  • certain models need some help to validate whether a certain shooter position would make sense or not, and the analyses never considered testing that higher building


so be it :slight_smile:

about your question about RealDjStew’s drone sightings in his videos: I only “trust” videos that have been made available until 1-2 days after the event.

I know of 5 videos that have these drone sightings, and it turns out that RealDjStew’s phone was confiscated by the fast buriers of information for 3 days
 that leaves plenty of time to add some drone shaped smudges and launch the hoax that there were military grade fast flying drones at the rally


I do not trust any eye witness or any news media reporting on these things.

I do follow Chris Martenson and Gary Menton from Paramount Technical and Gray Hugues Investigates and a couple of other great sources, but I do not take whatever they say for face value


I have been a forensic researcher for over 20 years and an auditor of complex systems for over 27 years


I only trust what I have corroborated myself based on various sources.

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hello Rough Country Gypsy,

the high roof that you droned is much more likely than what roger believes


there are many issues with the 3D CAD model he uses, and these lead to the very horizontal line of fire.

I have been saying this for almost 2 weeks now, and to no avail

the past few days, I checked the forum topics on the reconstruction of the rally site and the topic about going back to first principles.

what I learned is that several people before me have said exactly the same thing, but these messages have been ignored and ridiculed over and over again


I find this highly worrisome, but I am a very naieve person and believes that it is important to point things out when they are wrong


so, here we go again:

  • the biggest issue is that only rounded values in feet are used for the different buildings, objects and persons. I pointed out many times that 1 ft is 30 cm and that if, e.g., the height of Trump’s ear (including podium and shoes) is set at 11.583 ft above the ground level of his podium, and his podium is at 1337 ft, then that may be 1336.501 ft above sea level, but it can be as easily 1337.499 ft above sea level. both will be shown as 1337 ft, and that is what roger uses in his model
  • the same goes for the floor level of building 6 at 1335 ft and the bleachers at 1336 ft

in the kml file that I made available to everybody, everybody who wants to have a look at it can easily find out what ground levels I use based on a very accurate measuring technique (which I just explained in my reply to @schroederized so I will not repeat it here):

  • the floor level of the infamous building 6 is imho 1338.58 ft and roger places it at 1335 ft. that is almost 3.6 ft TOO low
 (shooter height at 1352.69 ft)
  • the ground level of the podium of Trump is imho 1344.72 ft and roger places it at 1337 (Trump’s ear height is imho around 1354.5 ft)
  • the ground level of the impact of the right bleacher is imho 1341.83 ft and roger places it at 1336 ft (impact height is imho 1352 ft)

so in the past 1.5 weeks, none of these ground level considerations have been taken into account, even though I have been stressing this over and over again


this is a serious concern


I do not want to hijack this forum either, and I have refrained from charging back at the people who have been gaslighting me, but what I have been saying and posting here the past 1.5-almost 2 weeks should really be looked at carefully rather than ignored and laughed away


to end on a positive note, I am very happy that you and several other forum members are supportive and non-hostile, and I thank you all for this!

yes, the fabric moves down sharply, but that is imho due to the man in the dark t-shirt who leans to that banner and pulls it as such down


that is true, but why would the real shooter use an M4?

this man shoots a Nemo semi automatic rifle chambered in Winchester Magnum 300 at a rate that is very compatible with 3 shots in 1.55 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/po7s1SHsrmQ

and the excellent Hickok45 shows even a full auto Browning BAR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2jRwp19csA

and when combined with a brass collecting bag attached to the gun, one does not even have to bother about collecting ejected shells


note that I am not making the claim that the 5 shots were fired with a full auto Browning BAR, but I hope you get the point that there is no need for the real shooter to have used the guns that we are made to believe have been used!

as @bigtim pointed out, a weapon is nothing else than a tool.
a professional uses the tool that is best suited for the job and selects the weapon and corresponding ammunition that meets the requirements at hand.

for certain jobs, a knife will be best suited, for other jobs a rail gun :slight_smile: and everything in between


I have seen an analysis of what happened to that man. He was touching the railing when the first shot hit/pierced the railing and the man was so overwhelmed that he was completely stunned and reflexively went down.
that same man was filmed leaving the stands completely unharmed but slightly shaken up

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Ah yes, I forgot for a moment that you’re still focusing on that higher roof with a larger caliber, bipod,etc
 BTW, I used the M4 as an example because I knew it had the burst mode, but it’s an AR platform
 they all tend to go up and to the left when fired off hand like that, or prone on a rooftop like 'the man that died on the roof" shot (or would have shot, in your scenario)

Roger, what are your current SHOT/HIT elevations for YourRealShooter, Crooks, TrumpEar and RailHit ?

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it is all about terminology, he


I use the term real shooter without caring whether it is crooks or somebody else


if it turns out that crooks is the real shooter, I do not have to modify any of my claims, because they hold for the real shooter :slight_smile:

from my point of view, the real shooter was somebody else than crooks, so, see it as a variable that has not been initialized yet, but is pencilled on the higher roof from my perspective and on the lower roof for those who believe in the lower roof theory


I am very happy that you ask roger to come up with the parameters he has in his model, because when I ask anything, he ignores my request


I have been trying to reconstruct the scheme he is so proud about called “ref 884-4”, but that is simply impossible, even though everybody admires it and swears by that scheme


I asked him for over half a week now to tell me the angle between the front of building 6 and the blue line that connects the man on the roof and the right corner of the bleachers


that is a very simple question, but there is no answer whatsoever


I am a very naieve person, but why does it need to take so long to answer such a simple question?

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Actually there is a problem, because at that time several policemen were watching the roof of buildings.

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Greg,
about shot #9

Yesterday, after seeing the excel chart plot I sent to howdoiknowthisinfo, I had a conversation with ChatGPT about that shot (or shots). I hear 3 peaks on JDStewart’s video when on Audacity, and if I remember correctly ( I did have a white port wine yesterday), 3 peaks can also be heard on Trump’s mic, but not on Ross and ‘ShakyRunningMan’ videos. Have you heard the same? What are your thoughts about it? I’ll post the conversation with AI below
 AI at first disregarded some places, but then after being provoked, it addressed the other locations after I mentioned the rifles were also supressed.

Shot sounds are heard on a recording made by Dave, and I have difficulty understanding if there are 1 or 2 shots on the audio track. The first peak of the waveform on the audio editing software is at time 0,000, then there is another peak at 0,12 seconds, and another at 0,23 seconds. The recording was made at location DAV, 42,71 meters south from location C, which is believed to be the target of the shot (or shots) on the recording. Location DAV is at 74 meters southeast of location 2ndWindow, where a gun might exist. Location DAV is around 137.5 meters south of location HighRoof, where there may or may not be a shooter with a rifle aiming at location DAV. Location DAV is 80 meters north of location CSnorth, and at 124,5 meters south of location CSsouth. DAV is 293 meters northeast of location Barnshoot. DAV is at 95 meters north of a location called CopsFar with rifles. DAV is also at around 60 meters south-southwest of location CopsClose. Location DAV is also 154 meters southeast of location WaterTower, which is elevated. Now, considering that C was engaged in shooting his 5.56 rifle, and that he died, who shot C, and at what distance, considering the time peaks from the recording? If there were 2 peaks, say, crack-thump, we could determine the distance, but there are 3 peaks. About the weapons, copsnorth and copssouth were using AR rifle chambered in 5.56, most likely. C was using 5.56. CSnorth and CSsouth were using supressed rifle chambered in .300 win mag. The other locations’s calibers are unknown. Consider that all locations had rifles. Consider that the initial peak of the DAV recording might or might not be of a supressed shot. All this considering, how many shots are there in the recording, and from where did it came? Consider that likelihood is acceptable.
O ChatGPT disse:
ChatGPT

This situation is highly complex, so I’ll need to break down the various possibilities to reach an informed analysis based on the data provided. Let’s start by analyzing the information step by step.
Key Information:

Recording Locations: The key locations include DAV, CSnorth, CSsouth, HighRoof, Barnshoot, CopsClose, CopsFar, WaterTower, and 2ndWindow.
Peaks in the Audio: Three peaks in the waveform at times:
    0.000s (initial peak)
    0.12s (second peak)
    0.23s (third peak)
Weapons: Various shooters are using rifles, mainly 5.56 caliber, with the presence of suppressors on some rifles, and .300 Win Mag rifles from CSnorth and CSsouth.
Distances: From DAV to various other locations, with DAV being 42.71 meters south of location C (the believed target of shots).

Initial Assumptions and Thoughts:

In this scenario, if we’re interpreting the peaks in the audio waveform as gunshots, a common situation is one where two distinct sounds from a shot are heard: the crack (the sound of the bullet breaking the sound barrier) and the thump (the report of the gunshot itself). However, the presence of three peaks complicates things.

We need to consider whether:

There were two gunshots: Possibly two gunshots occurring close together, with the third peak being the report of the second shot.
One shot: One shot could account for two peaks (crack and thump) with an additional sound coming from some other source.
Sound delays due to distances: Different locations create varying sound delays, which could explain the timing of the peaks.

Crack-Thump Calculations:

Given that the speed of sound is approximately 343 m/s (in air at standard conditions), we can calculate the expected delay between the crack and thump for a given shot based on distance.

Let’s assume the first peak (0.000s) is the supersonic crack of the bullet passing by DAV, and the second and third peaks are delayed sounds (possibly gunshots or echoes) from shooters positioned at different locations.

Crack-Thump Hypothesis:
If C (the target) was 42.71 meters north of DAV, and the first peak represents the bullet crack from a shot aimed at him, the timing of the crack would be instantaneous.

Now, let’s calculate the delay for the thump (the sound of the shot):
    0.12 seconds corresponds to a distance of around 41.16 meters (0.12s * 343 m/s). This is quite close to DAV’s distance from location C (42.71 meters), suggesting the second peak might be the gunshot's sound from location C.
    0.23 seconds corresponds to around 78.89 meters (0.23s * 343 m/s), which matches the distance between DAV and CopsClose (60 meters south-southwest). However, this is a rough approximation due to timing and propagation factors.

Hypothesis for the Three Peaks:

First Peak (0.000s): Likely the supersonic crack of the bullet from a suppressed rifle, possibly from CSnorth or CSsouth (both using suppressed .300 Win Mag). The bullet traveled toward C and was recorded at DAV.
Second Peak (0.12s): This could be the thump of the shot coming from C's position, indicating he fired his rifle.
Third Peak (0.23s): Possibly the sound of a suppressed gunshot from CSnorth, CSsouth, or another distant shooter (like HighRoof or CopsClose), with a delay due to the distance.

Conclusion:

It seems likely that there were two gunshots:

The first was fired from CSnorth or CSsouth using a suppressed .300 Win Mag rifle, with DAV capturing both the crack and thump due to the distance and speed of sound propagation.
The second shot (likely from C) was captured at DAV but with a slightly longer delay due to its distance.

Given the nature of suppressors, we can’t completely exclude the possibility that the first peak was from a suppressed shot, and the other two peaks correspond to delayed sounds of that same shot or multiple shots.
Most Likely Scenario:

One shot came from CSnorth or CSsouth (suppressed .300 Win Mag), which struck C.
Another shot was fired by C, possibly returning fire before being killed.
The three peaks represent: the supersonic crack of the shot (0.000s), the report of C’s rifle (0.12s), and the thump of the suppressed shot from CSnorth or CSsouth (0.23s).

This combination seems to fit with the data provided.
VocĂȘ disse:
Consider that the speed of sound on the day and place was of 351 meters per second.
O ChatGPT disse:
ChatGPT

Thanks for the clarification regarding the speed of sound, which was 351 meters per second. I’ll recalculate the sound delays and revisit the analysis to improve accuracy.
Revised Crack-Thump Calculations:

Using the speed of sound at 351 m/s, we can now refine the distance calculations for the sound events corresponding to the three peaks.

First Peak (0.000s):
    This is assumed to be the supersonic crack of the bullet passing by DAV. Since it's instantaneous at DAV, there’s no time delay associated with this peak.

Second Peak (0.12s):
    Time: 0.12 seconds.
    Distance calculation: Distance=0.12 seconds×351 m/s=42.12 meters.Distance=0.12seconds×351m/s=42.12meters.
    This distance closely matches DAV’s distance from C (42.71 meters), which suggests that this second peak could be the sound of the gunshot that killed C, originating from location C itself.

Third Peak (0.23s):
    Time: 0.23 seconds.
    Distance calculation: Distance=0.23 seconds×351 m/s=80.73 meters.Distance=0.23seconds×351m/s=80.73meters.
    This distance is approximately the distance between DAV and CSnorth (80 meters). This indicates that the third peak could represent the suppressed shot from CSnorth (or possibly CopsClose, at 60 meters).

Refined Hypothesis:

Based on the updated speed of sound, the scenario becomes clearer:

First Peak (0.000s): Likely the supersonic crack of the bullet fired by a shooter at CSnorth or CSsouth, passing by location DAV and hitting C. The crack is instantaneous at DAV.

Second Peak (0.12s): Likely the thump (the actual sound of the shot) from C's rifle firing. Given that the second peak corresponds to a distance of 42.12 meters, it is highly likely that this is the sound of the gunshot from location C (42.71 meters from DAV).

Third Peak (0.23s): Likely the sound of a suppressed shot from CSnorth (80 meters from DAV), or possibly an echo or report of a distant shot from CopsClose (60 meters from DAV).

Most Likely Scenario with Adjusted Speed of Sound:

One shot likely came from CSnorth or CSsouth, with a suppressed .300 Win Mag rifle, which struck C. The first peak (0.000s) is the supersonic crack of the bullet as it passed by DAV.
C fired a shot, creating the second peak (0.12s), which is consistent with the distance from DAV to location C.
The third peak (0.23s) could be from the suppressed rifle shot originating from CSnorth, traveling to DAV, or possibly an echo or secondary shot from another location.

The presence of two distinct shots appears more likely in this situation, especially given the characteristics of the suppressed rifle and the timing of the waveform peaks.
VocĂȘ disse:
Another info to consider an re-evaluate: there is another audio recording called T, which is located 50 meters west-northwest of CSsouth, 53 meters west of CSnorth, 100 meters south-southwest of DAV, 142 meters south-southwest of C. This recording captured the sounds at, from the perspective of T, at time 0,00, then second peak at 0,08 seconds, then 0,14 seconds. It is important to note that the audio level on the volume bar that these peaks reach on audio source T are at a lower value than another peak not yet mentioned that was supposedly a shot from CSsouth that happened later on. Let’s call this shot 10, and it peaks, from T audio source, the redline at volume 0db, and is known to be a supressed shot. However, the string of 3 peaks we’ve been talking about so far, when heard from T audio source, only reaches -6 for the first peak, the highest, then -10, then -12 for the third peak. Also, keep in mind that before this string of 3 peaks, C did fire shots at T, and the volume level of the crack-thump was, respectively, -1 and -6db. Now, re-evaluate your previous answers with this new information.
O ChatGPT disse:
ChatGPT

The additional details from audio source T are very valuable in re-evaluating the scenario. This information introduces another layer of analysis, particularly in terms of sound levels and how these peaks correspond to known shots, including suppressed shots from various locations. Let’s factor in the data provided by audio source T, particularly in relation to volume levels and distances, and see how it adjusts the previous conclusions.
Key Information from T:

Distances from T:
    T is 50 meters west-northwest of CSsouth and 53 meters west of CSnorth.
    T is 100 meters south-southwest of DAV and 142 meters south-southwest of C.

Timing of Peaks on T:
    First peak at 0.00 seconds.
    Second peak at 0.08 seconds.
    Third peak at 0.14 seconds.

Volume Levels from T:
    The three peaks recorded from T show decreasing volume levels: -6 dB, -10 dB, and -12 dB.
    C's earlier shots produced a crack-thump with sound levels at -1 dB and -6 dB, respectively.
    A known suppressed shot from CSsouth (referred to as Shot 10) hits the redline at 0 dB on T, indicating that this shot was noticeably louder than the string of three peaks we've been analyzing.

Analysis of Audio Source T:

First Peak (0.00s on T):
    Volume Level: -6 dB on T.
    Timing and Location: This peak corresponds to the first peak on DAV (at 0.00s). Since this sound is quieter than Shot 10, which was a suppressed shot from CSsouth, it suggests that this initial peak is not from a nearby location, such as CSsouth or CSnorth, but from a more distant location or a shot that was less intense.
    Hypothesis: This could be the supersonic crack of the bullet, perhaps originating from CSnorth or CSsouth, passing by DAV, but the lower volume suggests it’s distant from T.

Second Peak (0.08s on T):
    Volume Level: -10 dB on T.
    Timing and Location: This is quieter and delayed from the first peak by 0.08 seconds. With the speed of sound being 351 m/s, this corresponds to a distance of approximately 28.08 meters.
    Hypothesis: Given the lower volume and delay, this might be the thump from a shot that wasn’t nearby but was farther from T, likely closer to DAV or C’s location. It could be the report of the shot from C or a distant suppressed shot.

Third Peak (0.14s on T):
    Volume Level: -12 dB on T.
    Timing and Location: This is quieter still and delayed from the second peak by 0.06 seconds. This corresponds to an additional distance of around 21.06 meters (based on the speed of sound).
    Hypothesis: The low volume and slight delay suggest this could be an echo or a quieter report, possibly from a suppressed shot that is much farther away from T, likely from CSnorth or CSsouth, or another distant source.

Volume Level Analysis:

Crack-Thump from C’s Earlier Shots: The volume levels of C’s shots that hit T were -1 dB for the crack and -6 dB for the thump. These levels were louder than the string of three peaks we’ve been analyzing, indicating that C's earlier shots were closer or more intense in relation to T.

Shot 10 (from CSsouth, suppressed): This shot hits the 0 dB redline on T, indicating it was much louder than the three peaks, even though it was a suppressed shot. This supports the idea that Shot 10 was relatively close to T.

String of Three Peaks (from DAV perspective): These peaks reached -6 dB, -10 dB, and -12 dB respectively on T, indicating that these shots were quieter and possibly farther away from T. The descending volume levels suggest that the shots may have been moving away from T or originated from different distances, with the third peak being the quietest.

Revised Hypothesis:

First Peak (0.00s on both T and DAV): Likely the supersonic crack of a shot, potentially from CSnorth or CSsouth (both using suppressed rifles). The lower volume on T suggests that the shot was distant from T.

Second Peak (0.08s on T, 0.12s on DAV): Likely the thump of the suppressed shot that struck C. The delay and quieter sound imply that this shot originated from a distance and wasn’t a nearby, loud shot.

Third Peak (0.14s on T, 0.23s on DAV): Likely an echo or secondary suppressed shot from a distant location (possibly CSnorth or CSsouth). The quietness suggests that this sound traveled farther, and the sound was heavily dampened by distance and suppression.

Conclusion:

There were likely two shots fired: one from CSnorth or CSsouth, suppressed, that hit C, followed by another suppressed shot. The string of three peaks captured on DAV and T represents these shots and possibly their echoes or sound delays.
The first peak is the supersonic crack of a bullet, likely from CSnorth or CSsouth, that passed by DAV and hit C. The second and third peaks represent the suppressed shot's thump and possibly an echo or secondary shot from a similar location.
The volume levels suggest that the string of three peaks originates from suppressed fire at a distance from T, as none of the sounds reached the intensity of a close-range shot like Shot 10.

This scenario points to suppressed fire from CSnorth or CSsouth as the most likely origin of the shots.
VocĂȘ disse:
Keep in mind that CopsClose and CopsFar also had supressed rifles. Does it change anything?
O ChatGPT disse:
ChatGPT

Thank you for that clarification! With the additional detail that CopsClose and CopsFar also had suppressed rifles, it’s important to re-evaluate the possibilities. This means we now have four potential sources of suppressed fire: CSnorth, CSsouth, CopsClose, and CopsFar. Let’s adjust the analysis to incorporate these locations as potential sources of the shots.
Key Details Revisited with CopsClose and CopsFar:

CopsClose: Approximately 60 meters south-southwest of DAV.
CopsFar: Approximately 95 meters north of DAV.
T’s position: 100 meters south-southwest of DAV and relatively close to both CSnorth and CSsouth (50–53 meters away).

Implications of Suppressed Rifles at CopsClose and CopsFar:

These new locations provide alternative explanations for the sound levels, timings, and distances. Since CopsClose and CopsFar were much closer to DAV compared to CSnorth and CSsouth, their suppressed shots could have contributed to the sound peaks captured on DAV and T. Here’s how this might adjust the conclusions:
Hypotheses Revisited with CopsClose and CopsFar:
Audio Source T:

First Peak (0.00s on T, 0.00s on DAV):
    Volume Level: -6 dB on T.
    Potential Source: Given the proximity of CopsClose (60 meters south-southwest of DAV), this first peak could now potentially represent a suppressed shot from CopsClose. The shot would be louder than one from farther locations like CSnorth or CSsouth, explaining the relatively higher volume of this peak.
    The timing suggests this might be the crack of a suppressed shot, though quieter due to suppression, from CopsClose passing by DAV and being captured by T.

Second Peak (0.08s on T, 0.12s on DAV):
    Volume Level: -10 dB on T.
    Potential Source: This could now be the thump of a suppressed shot from CopsClose or even CopsFar. The lower volume level suggests that this peak is farther from T, potentially aligning with a suppressed shot's sound from CopsClose reaching DAV and T after a short delay.

Third Peak (0.14s on T, 0.23s on DAV):
    Volume Level: -12 dB on T.
    Potential Source: The quietest of the three, this might be a secondary suppressed shot from CopsFar, located 95 meters north of DAV, or possibly from one of the farther locations like CSnorth or CSsouth. The delay and reduced sound level suggest this shot was more distant from both DAV and T, possibly arriving after reflections or additional sound propagation.

Revised Conclusion with CopsClose and CopsFar:

First Peak (0.00s): Now likely a suppressed shot from CopsClose. The peak is louder than the other two because CopsClose is much closer to DAV, and T captured the supersonic crack of the bullet passing by DAV. The shot is quieter than the later Shot 10 from CSsouth because of its suppression, but it is still significant enough to cause the peak at -6 dB.

Second Peak (0.08s on T, 0.12s on DAV): Likely the thump of the same suppressed shot from CopsClose, or possibly another shot from CopsFar. The volume drop suggests a quieter, more distant sound, indicating either the report of the suppressed shot reaching DAV and T or a second shot from a more distant suppressed rifle.

Third Peak (0.14s on T, 0.23s on DAV): Likely an echo or a third shot from a more distant suppressed shooter, potentially CopsFar or CSnorth. The quieter sound and delay suggest this shot was more distant or suppressed even further than the others.

Volume Considerations:

The suppressed rifles from CopsClose and CopsFar are likely responsible for the quieter sound levels seen on T, compared to the louder Shot 10 from CSsouth.
The fact that CopsClose and CopsFar were closer to DAV than CSnorth and CSsouth explains why the string of three peaks is quieter compared to the known Shot 10, which was a suppressed shot fired closer to T.

Final Most Likely Scenario:

With CopsClose and CopsFar now considered, it is highly likely that:

One suppressed shot came from CopsClose (suppressed rifle), creating the first and second peaks (crack and thump), which were picked up by both DAV and T.
A second shot, likely from CopsFar or a more distant suppressed shooter, produced the third peak on both recordings.

Thus, the three peaks likely represent two suppressed shots, with the first peak being the crack of a bullet passing DAV, followed by the thump and then a quieter secondary shot from a more distant shooter (likely CopsFar or CSnorth).
VocĂȘ disse:
What about locations HighRoof and Barnshoot? could any shot have come from these locations? Do consider that they could very well be supressed also.
O ChatGPT disse:
ChatGPT

Great, let’s now include HighRoof and Barnshoot in our evaluation, keeping in mind that they could also have had suppressed rifles. Here’s a breakdown of these locations and their potential to have contributed to the shots based on their distances, suppression, and sound delays.
Location Details:

HighRoof: 137.5 meters south of DAV.
Barnshoot: 293 meters northeast of DAV.

Both locations are significantly farther from DAV compared to CopsClose, CopsFar, CSnorth, and CSsouth. Let’s factor in their distances and the possibility of suppressed rifles to assess whether they could have contributed to the string of three peaks recorded by DAV and T.
Calculating Timing Based on Distances:

Given that the speed of sound is 351 m/s, we can calculate the delay times that would correspond to shots originating from HighRoof and Barnshoot.
Shot Timing from HighRoof:

Distance: 137.5 meters south of DAV.

Time Delay to DAV:
Time=137.5 meters351 m/s≈0.39 seconds
Time=351m/s137.5meters​≈0.39seconds

A shot from HighRoof would take approximately 0.39 seconds to reach DAV. Since none of the recorded peaks are as delayed as 0.39 seconds, this suggests that HighRoof is unlikely to be responsible for the initial string of three peaks on DAV, at least in terms of sound reaching DAV.

However, T is located much closer to HighRoof, and it is possible that a shot from this location was captured there. Let’s look at that more closely.

Shot Timing from Barnshoot:

Distance: 293 meters northeast of DAV.
Time Delay to DAV:
Time=293 meters351 m/s≈0.83 seconds
Time=351m/s293meters​≈0.83seconds
A shot from Barnshoot would take approximately 0.83 seconds to reach DAV. Since none of the recorded peaks align with this longer delay, Barnshoot is also an unlikely source for the initial string of peaks on DAV.

Reevaluating Based on Suppression:

Let’s now consider the potential for suppressed shots from HighRoof and Barnshoot, factoring in both the sound levels and timing:
HighRoof Suppressed Shot:

A suppressed shot from HighRoof could have contributed to the sound peaks on T or DAV. However, given the distance, even a suppressed shot would still have a distinct delay (~0.39 seconds). None of the peaks recorded by DAV match this delay. However, it is possible that an echo or a distant thump from a suppressed shot from HighRoof was part of the quieter peaks recorded by T.
The fact that HighRoof is farther from DAV but closer to T suggests that if HighRoof contributed to the sound peaks, it was more likely captured by T than DAV. Still, the timing doesn’t strongly align with the observed peaks.

Barnshoot Suppressed Shot:

Similarly, a suppressed shot from Barnshoot would have a longer delay (~0.83 seconds) before reaching DAV, which doesn’t correspond with the recorded peaks.
The quietness of the shot, combined with the distance, means that Barnshoot is not likely responsible for any of the three peaks captured by DAV or T. Even with suppression, the travel time would be far greater than any of the observed time delays.

Conclusion with HighRoof and Barnshoot Considered:

HighRoof and Barnshoot are unlikely to be the sources of the string of three peaks captured on DAV and T. The delays from these locations would be significantly longer than the peaks recorded, even for suppressed shots.
HighRoof might have contributed a more distant sound that could be picked up by T, given its closer proximity to T, but the evidence suggests that it didn’t contribute directly to the string of three peaks.
Barnshoot, being even farther away, is highly unlikely to have contributed any of the immediate peaks due to the long sound travel time (~0.83 seconds).

Final Scenario with All Locations Considered:

The string of three peaks most likely originates from locations closer to DAV and T, such as CopsClose, CopsFar, CSnorth, or CSsouth. HighRoof and Barnshoot, due to their greater distances, do not match the timing or volume levels observed for the three peaks. Therefore, the shots in question most likely came from the closer locations, with CopsClose and CSnorth being strong candidates for the suppressed shots that were recorded.
VocĂȘ disse:
What about locations WaterTower and 2ndWindow ? Keep in mind they could also be supressed rifles.
O ChatGPT disse:
ChatGPT

Let’s now evaluate WaterTower and 2ndWindow as potential sources of the suppressed shots. I’ll consider both their locations, the distances, and how their suppression might affect the sound peaks picked up by DAV and T.
Location Details:

WaterTower:
    Distance from DAV: 154 meters southeast.
    Elevation: Elevated position.
2ndWindow:
    Distance from DAV: 74 meters southeast.

Both are closer than HighRoof and Barnshoot, and their positions, particularly 2ndWindow, could affect the sound peaks in a significant way. Let’s examine how the sound delays would match the peaks on DAV and T.
Calculating Timing Based on Distances:

Using the speed of sound (351 m/s) again, we can calculate the delay times for shots originating from these locations.
Shot Timing from WaterTower:

Distance: 154 meters southeast of DAV.
Time Delay to DAV:
Time=154 meters351 m/s≈0.44 seconds
Time=351m/s154meters​≈0.44seconds
A shot from WaterTower would take approximately 0.44 seconds to reach DAV. This delay doesn’t align with any of the three peaks recorded on DAV (which are within the range of 0.12 to 0.23 seconds). However, there could be an echo or a secondary sound from WaterTower that might account for a quieter peak observed on T. Still, based on the timing, it’s unlikely that WaterTower is responsible for the immediate string of peaks recorded by DAV.

Shot Timing from 2ndWindow:

Distance: 74 meters southeast of DAV.
Time Delay to DAV:
Time=74 meters351 m/s≈0.21 seconds
Time=351m/s74meters​≈0.21seconds
A shot from 2ndWindow would take approximately 0.21 seconds to reach DAV. This timing is quite close to the third peak recorded on DAV (which occurred at 0.23 seconds). This suggests that 2ndWindow could be a plausible source of at least one of the peaks, particularly the third peak on DAV.

Evaluating Suppressed Shots from WaterTower and 2ndWindow:
WaterTower Suppressed Shot:

Distance and Elevation: Being elevated and 154 meters away, a suppressed shot from WaterTower would have a delayed sound arrival at DAV. However, the timing of 0.44 seconds doesn't align with the string of peaks on DAV, which are much earlier. While the WaterTower could contribute to a quieter echo or a longer-distance shot, it doesn’t seem to directly correspond to the three peaks based on the timing data.

For T, the WaterTower is farther away, so any sound reaching T from WaterTower would be significantly delayed and likely quieter due to suppression. Thus, WaterTower is not a strong candidate for the origin of the main shots.

2ndWindow Suppressed Shot:

Distance and Position: The close proximity of 2ndWindow to DAV makes it a strong candidate for producing one or more of the peaks, particularly the third peak on DAV at 0.23 seconds. The suppressed nature of the shot could explain why the volume levels are lower on DAV and T. Additionally, being only 74 meters away, the delay of 0.21 seconds matches very closely with the third peak's timing.

2ndWindow is close enough to both DAV and T that a suppressed shot could easily be responsible for one or more of the peaks. The sound would reach both recording points with a slight delay, and the lower volume levels are consistent with suppression.

Final Scenario Incorporating WaterTower and 2ndWindow:

WaterTower: Due to the greater distance (154 meters) and the delay of 0.44 seconds, WaterTower is unlikely to be the source of the immediate string of peaks captured on DAV. The timing simply doesn’t align with the observed peaks. However, WaterTower could potentially contribute a quieter echo or a secondary suppressed shot that was recorded later.

2ndWindow: This location is a much more plausible source of the third peak recorded on DAV. The distance of 74 meters results in a delay of 0.21 seconds, which matches closely with the timing of the third peak (0.23 seconds) on DAV. It’s quite likely that one of the suppressed shots originated from 2ndWindow, with the suppression accounting for the lower volume levels observed on both DAV and T.

Conclusion with WaterTower and 2ndWindow Considered:

WaterTower is not a strong candidate for the main string of peaks due to its longer distance and delayed sound arrival. Its contribution might come later or in the form of echoes.
2ndWindow is a likely origin of one or more of the suppressed shots, particularly the third peak observed on DAV. Its proximity and timing fit well with the data, making it a plausible source of the suppressed fire.

Summary of Most Likely Scenario with All Locations Considered:

The string of three peaks on DAV and T most likely involves a combination of shots from locations like CopsClose, CSnorth, and 2ndWindow, all using suppressed rifles. The third peak could very well be from 2ndWindow, while the earlier peaks might be associated with CopsClose or CSnorth. Locations like WaterTower, HighRoof, and Barnshoot are less likely to have contributed directly due to their greater distances and mismatched timing.

DNA from gloves of first local guys on roof.

@daniloraf, thank you for your detailed message. I started looking in detail at crack-boom differences last night, and here’s where I’m at today. I don’t know why, but the Dayve Stewert (yes, that’s how he spells his name) audio is very “muddy”. It’s like there is a filter on the audio that is spreading out the sound. For shot 9, I do hear the sounds you are talking about at +120 and +230 ms, but it is unclear to me whether those are reports (booms) or echos. I’m thinking echos.

However, when I look at the “He’s got a gun” source 2 (TMX) video, I see something refreshing. A clear crack followed by a boom 25 ms later. It seems odd that the TMX phone has such clear audio compared to Stewert’s phone. If anyone has a good technical explanation for this, I’d like to hear it.

TMX Audio for shot 9:

And by comparison, see how “muddy” the Stewert video is:

Guys, also check out this paper: https://www.montana.edu/rmaher/publications/maher_aes_1022_22.pdf

It has some equations that should be useful.

1 Like

@vt1 and @greg_n Here’s another video from near Trump.

https://x.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1815041378482532763

All 10 shots are audible.

2 Likes

very cool!
thanks!

request to all about the speed of sound

let’s all use the same values as those that I got from Chris Martenson:

image

Greg,

JUST ASKED DAYVE ON X: HE SAID HE MADE NO ALTERATIONS.

Edit: well
 only 2 peaks here


True. When it was release I thought he had somehow amplified the level and also played around with filters.Two things to consider, however, are that: a) trump’s mic picks up 3 peaks for shot 9 at the the same level as the 5-shot volley shounds, while shot 10 has a higher level and is said to be from a closer place to Trump b) both Dayve’s and Trump’s microphones have an unimpeded line of sight to the east of the building, while the other sources do not. This is what prompted me to look into it. Just don’t know where it came from, since the other shots from the other sources don’t have an echo with such a defined peak.