Disruptions Triggered By The Coronavirus Are Now Exploding Everywhere

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Let me start by saying this is a medical hypothesis, NOT proven fact.

However, it makes biochemical sense and is postulated by three well published University professors. I should also say ARBs have been proposed as theoretically being a treatment for Covid by at least one other person (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32129518 ), so clearly researchers are doing science: coming up with hypothesis which need to be tested. That does not help us in the moment however and I have seen no research out of China that mentions any use of ARBs for Covid-19 (and I have been looking).

It does feel worthwhile to post this, as it may help in some cases.

As a naturopathic physician, we routinely do not recommend suppressing a moderate fever (below 102 or 103’F) in a well hydrated, non compromised person. Fever is a normal healthy response to fight infection. Of course, there is time for suppression when fever is to high, too prolonged, etc and using hydrotherapy, homeopathy and herbs would be our preferred course of action, not ibuprofen.

But this following hypothesis is a red flag for suppressing Covid fever with ibuprofen, especially in patients concurrently taking

1. ARBs (drugs end in -sartan. Azilsartan (Edarbi); candesartan (Atacand), valsartan (Diovan); losartan (Cozaar); olmesartan (Benicar). ARB stands for AT1R blockers and they represent a major class of antihypertensive medications.

2. ACE-inhibitors (ACE inhibitors end with -pril: benazepril (Lotensin, Lotensin Hct); captopril (Capoten); enalapril (Vasotec); fosinopril (Monopril); lisinopril (Prinivil, Zestril). 3. Thiazolidinediones (Avandia (rosliglitazone) and Actos (pioglitazone))

This article suggests ibuprofen as well as ARBs and ACE inhibitors may increase morbidity from Covid-19 due to their ability to upregulate (increase expression/concentration) of ACE2. https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lanres/PIIS2213-2600(20)30116-8.pdf

These data suggest that ACE2 expression is increased in diabetes and treatment with ACE inhibitors and ARBs increases ACE2 expression. ACE2 can also be increased by thiazolidinediones and ibuprofen. Consequently, the increased expression of ACE2 would facilitate infection with COVID-19. We therefore hypothesise that diabetes and hypertension treatment with ACE2-stimulating drugs increases the risk of developing severe and fatal COVID-19.

They go on to say, "Based on a PubMed search on Feb 28, 2020, we did not find any evidence to suggest that antihypertensive calcium channel blockers increased ACE2 expression or activity, therefore these could be a suitable alternative treatment in these patients”.

Just passing on information, you must be the final judge.

  Claire
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Hi 42! Welcome to PP. Chris’s discussion on the Adjustment Reaction was in his March 12th update, “Coronavirus: How To Inform Your Friends & Family Without Creating Pushback”. I see it posted on Youtube, but not on PeakProsperity.com yet.

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Scientists got the 1918 virus by digging up a woman in Alaska that was buried in the permafrost. They can now study the virus and use it for ?
No freezing does’t kill it.
AKGrannyWGrit

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You Tube ~15.5 minutes

How Serious is the Coronavirus? Infectious Disease Expert Michael Osterholm Explains | Joe Rogan

Dr. Osterholm, PhD, MPH is the author of the 2017 book, Deadliest Enemy: Our War Against Killer Germs, in which he not only details the most pressing infectious disease threats of our day but lays out a nine-point strategy on how to address them, with preventing a global flu pandemic at the top of the list. In the interview, he discusses the seriousness of coronaviruses, supply chain shortages, etc. He answers why people are saying the young don't get it--They do, but not have symptoms. - He uses the example of hepatitis- daycare workers are sick, parents are sick- kids are fine. But when children are tested, they are infectious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZFhjMQrVts&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3iLuJ0M7PXWmONifCFkKEsrxQmnCcc3SvJakyDifj3YP9B9qVrl_uqtz8&app=desktop
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If it would make a better world for my children - we have a disaster now headed nowhere. I said it many times - I would sacrifice myself in a heart beat to make the world a decent place for others … especially for my children.

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This is for the visual learners among us (not really us, of course. I actually mean Them).
Once there was a frog who lived in a pond. For a long time, he was happy in his froggy solitude. But, as time went on, he grew lonely. One day a bad actor, who secretly loved to eat frog legs, came along and asked if he would like some froggy friends to share his pond. “Oh, yes!”, said the frog. The bad, nasty guy told him that friends could only be made slowly. But, if he liked, the first day, he could have a companion. The second day, they each could have another friend, making four frogs. The next day, each of them could have a BFF. Now there were eight frogs. Not quite enough for a good party, so the rotten guy asked the frog is he could just double the number every day. “Oh, my, yes! Party on!”
And so it went. The pond was the home of many happy frogs. But, all good times must end, we know. Soon, things were a bit crowded. Flies were getting scarce and there was only room for slow dancing. But the pond was still only just half full, and the frogs were sure they would always have room to dance and cavort the nights away. But, the next day–the pond was full. End of pond, end of frogs.
And, so, exponential growth was discovered.

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North Carolina now has 23/24 (NCDHHS/Johns Hopkins) positive cases, all diagnosed since 3 March. I drew a quick graph on the back of an envelope, based on the dates state authorities announced each case, and revealed the classic hockey stick of a log progression. All K-12 schools are closed for at least two weeks.
Boom!
https://www.ncdhhs.gov/news/press-releases/governor-cooper-issues-executive-order-closing-k-12-public-schools-and-banning
 

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I cannot believe that there is ANY shortage of N95 masks, coronavirus testing kits, etc. I actually DO have access to all kinds of Chinese made 3M N95 masks ( yes, muchWAS, and still IS made in China) and Coronavirus testing kits. I actually called various State Health Departments and large hospitals in Washington, NY, etc. I tried to explain that I really DO have connections for these things and maybe I can help if there is a need.
I got met with these 3 responses: assurances that they had suppliers that they currently worked with and had plenty of stock, indifference, or disdain ( actually downright rudeness) for suggesting that I could get the supplies if they were having trouble. So apparently all this talk of shortages is CRAP ! I don’t mean this against the site, I love this site. I just think what is being portrayed in the media and by officials is false - at least in my observation.
 

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There are no N95 masks anywhere within a 50-mile radius of where I live.

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Things are getting real! I am waiting to get the call as to whether I return to work on Monday. I work as a speech language pathologist with home based & school based young children. Maintaining a safe distance from these young ones is difficult! So I am very concerned if I have to return this coming week. On the bright side, I had 3 people tell me I was “right” & I gained credibility with them thanks to this site! And I met with my neighbor who grows food on his farm & we are both expanding food production this year but in complimentary ways to one another. Friends report lengthy lines from Walmart but my store as been fine when I go early. Thanks to all the great info on this site!

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At 2:45, the first one named is “Hilary”. Bwhahahahahaha. Nice coincidence.

114

Both my PCP and I a doctor I work with at an alcohol treatment center panned the subject immune system supplements, and a few others I brought up. “You’re wasting your money”, they both said. I was a bit surprised, but I didn’t argue.

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Aftermath scene from the food co-op in Denver where my son shops.

 

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I believe we started to try and ramp up testing just over a week ago. As of 3 pm Saturday today they have only tested 711 people with 101 being positive. Colorado has been more proactive than most but still only 711 tests as of today. So right now we have an infection rate of 14% based on very limited data.
Of course they add this caveat.

**Now that private labs are conducting testing, the positive cases number represents all positive cases in the state. The negative and total numbers represent just the confirmed data from the state lab. Private labs are not required to report negative numbers to the state.

So who knows what the actual numbers are. My guess there are hundreds of people infected in the state.

 
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Chris, you mention that the fatality rate is about 20 times that of flu but most of the research I’ve seen suggest that it isn’t quite that high; maybe 5x to 12x as deadly. Do you have any links for the 20x claim? Obviously, we’ll know for sure once the numbers on millions of cases have been analysed but, for now, the scientific estimate seems to hinge around the 1% mark, probably lower, and flu, as I understand it, is around 0.1%

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Many doctors seem to know next to nothing about non-allopathic supplements, herbs, homeopathic remedies, nutritional protocols, etc. that have been proven in evidence based studies to be efficacious. Ditto with regards to effective non-surgical treatment protocols for everything from atrial fibrillation to hiatal hernia to torn knee menisci to spinal disc derangements to carpal tunnel syndrome, etc. If it isn’t pharmacological or surgical, their knowledge is usually rudimentary to non-existent. It’s very similar to the CDC’s recommendations on the corona virus. Behind-the-curve, incomplete, and often mistaken. There are exceptions of course. Seek those professionals out. They are the wave of the future and maybe the rest will learn from them.
For my retirement, my daughter put together a beautiful Shutterfly book for me filled with testimonials from colleagues and patients, many of whom wrote about how they were told they needed surgery for xyz malady but came to me upon word-of-mouth referral and subsequently avoided surgery. One of the most glowing testimonials is from a doctor and his wife. I treasure that book and those people.
One of the problems is that people DON’T argue with them and their medical arrogance and self-righteousness remain unchallenged. In the latter part of my career, when I was professionally and financially secure, I did … but respectfully and armed with scientific facts and the evidence of my own work and experience. Some listened and some didn’t but I hope I made all of them think and reconsider previously held misconceptions and beliefs. The generation of doctors who considered themselves demi-gods (and whose patients also considered them as such, reinforcing these doctors’ distorted self image) is, thankfully, dying out.
 
 

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A criticism of the “flatten the curve” approach is that it is a general concept, but hard numbers have not applied to the axes of the graphs. A qualitative example from Vox:

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Joscha Bach writes a semi-quantitative analysis of the general concept of flattening the curve–spreading out the duration of the epidemic so as to not have as many critically ill people at one time which would overwhelm hospital and ICU capacity.
He asks: Exactly what is the critical element of Health Care System Capacity? His answer: the number of ventilators.
In the USA, there are about 170,000 ventilators.

If we assume that 55% of Americans catch COVID-19 until the end of 2020, and 6% (10.8 million) of them will need ventilators at some point, and we furthermore simplify the model into a normal distribution (a symmetric bell curve with a steep exponential onset, a gradual flattening once most people are infected or immune, and a gradual falloff as cases resolve), we get the following diagram:
The brown line near the bottom: that’s our limited supply of ventilators and intensive care beds! The red curve does not contain all cases of COVID-19, but only those 6% that will die if we cannot put them on a ventilator for something like four weeks. In this scenario, it means that the maximum number of cases needing care on the same day, without any kind of mitigation, is around 3 million! The assumptions:
  • 55% of the population gets infected in the year 2020.
  • 6% of the infected need ICU/ventilator
  • 4 weeks is the average duration of ventilator support needed for each patient.
  • Curve shape is approximated as a normal distribution
  • 170,000 ventilators are available in the USA
If more than 170,000 people need ventilators at one time, those over this hard equipment capacity cannot be saved. And it looks like roughly 3 Million people could need a ventilator at one time during the disease peak. The only way to keep the total number of patients needing ventilators under the 170,00 hard limit imposed by ventilator availability, is to flatten the curve out to an impossible 10 year duration. The same number of people getting infected, but over a 10 year period, rather than one year. In pictures:
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---His conclusion is that the disease must actually be contained, not just slowed.
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Hi Broadspectrum, Welcome to PP! I live in the Central Valley, Cali and things are getting pretty crazy here. Stores are wiped-out in supplies such as TP, paper towels, hand sanitizer and masks/respirators (cleaned out weeks ago), sanitizing wipes, rubbing alcohol, bleach, gloves, and bottled water.
People here are tense and inpatient in stores and while driving. Cashiers and store personnel are exasperated and look exhausted. Parking lots are full and people waiting in line to get into the store (e.g., Costco) in some places, and waiting in line to get a shopping cart.
A worker at Grocery Store Outlet explained to me that once people figured out that Costco, Walmart and Target were out of supplies, they were inundated with shoppers, some frantic looking to buy the above items. One man bought an entire pallet of bottled water, after which the store owner/manager put a limit on water purchases. She also said that they had to break-up a confrontation between two shoppers where one shopper was removing items from the other shopper’s cart. She said that supplies were cleaned-out minutes of delivery and after being placed on shelves/pallets. She didn’t know if their warehouse and suppliers would be able to keep up with demand. Given the behavior she and other workers have witnessed, several expressed the view that this whole “coronavirus thing” was overblown and people were overreacting.
Schools and universities are moving to on-line only classes, with all events and meetings cancelled. Social/cultural events for the larger community and industry-specific associations have been cancelled.
You can feel growing panic in the air. This scenario is playing out all over the US, and the world. :frowning:
Shifting gears: I’m sorry to hear about the loss of those close to you. And yes, we are coming upon a time of many losses. I hope you and yours stay healthy and safe to the extent possible during these difficult times. You’ll find that you’re in well-grounded, well-informed good and caring company here at PP.
Lastly, I had to laugh at your description of the irrational, neurotic behavior of most people pushing the “cross” button at the stop light/intersection. I’ve observed this phenomenon for years with a degree of fascination, humor and bewilderment. Mostly, I just shake my head and watch the dance that invariably accompanies the futile repetitive button-pushing. I’ve been tempted to get stickers made that say, “Push button only once. Pushing the button multiple times will not make the signal change any faster.” to place above the buttons. I haven’t because, given that I’m so “special”, I will likely get cited and fined by some authority for defacing governmental property and/or posting signs without a permit. :wink: