BillV,
You are dealing with a religious cult. There’s no other way to properly understand it. It’s like trying to reason with Jehovah’s Witnesses. At some point they are going to assume you are consigned to the “second death” if you listen to them and don’t heed what THEY are saying. Very fundamentalist thinking here.
Your Iowa [Sweden model] analysis isn’t quite the full picture. Because of lack of testing and no rural medical care, some of the smaller population counties have been hurt much more severely than the more urbanized areas. Hospitals near these hot spots are filling now and it’s a LONG way to the nearest hospital that can actually treat severe cases, hence high death rates in the rural areas.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/iowa-coronavirus-cases.html
Deaths compared to NYC where “As of September 27, 2020, there had been 19.6 deaths due to COVID-19 in New York City per 10,000” e.g. 196/100K, similar to the smaller Iowa counties. The IA in the last 7 days is similar to recent NYC. (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109417/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-new-york-by-county/)
Iowa Covid Maps & StatsAccount of a recent personal observation.
1. Medical facilities here started treating non-Covid patients again in July. I immediately scheduled overdue eye surgeries for my dad and I, before the University re-opened. The pre-surgery appointments and the first 2 surgeries were in safe facilities. However, the last one a couple of weeks ago was in a facility back under covid lockdown. Recent irresponsible behavior is again denying at risk people safe medical care.
2. My dad collects antique farm equipment and every fall displays at a local Heritage Show. This is conservative, small town WI, in a local Hot Spot – bright red in the lower left with 2,245/100K. Local nursing homes have had deaths and the county has lost 19 people to proven Covid, but they can’t test in the area, so that is an undercount. The local college is a hotbed of new cases.
Since it was outdoors, I told him he could go but he had to wear a mask.
The displays were packed close together and people were extremely crowded. When we arrived only he, his college student shop assistant and I were wearing masks. He felt very out of place. The average age was over 50 and the majority of attendees were in high risk groups. Then it started to rain and people crowded in under awnings and inside the few buildings, without masks. It wasn’t safe for anybody at risk. I was glad when the rain got so bad I could take everything, especially my 94-yr-old dad, home.
By the way, live SARS-Cov2 virus has been reported at a Midwest beach (lake). Didn’t have time to research where or accuracy.
Mohammed,
You’re confused about burden of proof. When you make an accusation, you have the burden of proof to provide evidence. Your citations you provided did not even address your initial claims about Bill Gates, and I pointed out that the silly conspiratorial one about claiming the GMO mosquitos were part of a secret plot to sterilize humans had no basis, no supporting evidence.
You said:
I did not make hyperbolic assertions. That is actually an assertion YOU made. I provided citations to backup my comments.Mohammed, if the citations you provided did not support your initial claim (in fact they addressed different issues), then you did not back up your claim. Do you understand that citations are not sufficient to prove your claim unless they 1) address the same issue, and 2) include evidence, not just baseless conspiracy theory?
You on the other hand resorted to ad homs and assertions with no proof no citations. That goes nowhere here.Calling attention to the fact that you failed to prove your assertion is self-evident. It does not require outside source citations. The citation I used was quoting what you said, and showing that your citations did not substantiate your assertions. You seem to be confused. What part of this did you not understand? You are also confused about the definition of ad hominem. Ad hominem means you attack the person, not the arguments. I said nothing about your person. I pointed out why your assertions were false. You should review the definition I posted above in my comment to Dave. Oh, about you saying that, "ad homs and assertions with no proof no citations. That goes nowhere here." Are you sure about that? I beg to differ. Seems that it does go somewhere here when defending people's conspiratorial dogma. Refer to Dave's comments to me above for a perfect example, in which he resorts to ad hominems and accuses me of being a paid agent of Bill Gates with no proof. Apparently Dave and the others (including yourself) with shared conspiratorial beliefs feel that is just fine, when used to defend their beliefs. It's quite amusing how all of you true believers are completely oblivious to your hypocrisy and double standards, LOL!
Your accusing me of being a paid agent of Bill Gates is such a classic example it's hilarious. It's an indication of how completely incapable you are of objective rational debate over facts. You sound like a religious fanatic.We all choose where to spend our energy. I choose to spend minimal energy engaging with fifty cent army soldiers. My energy is better spent elsewhere. After all, nobody pays me for my comments. But for you - this must be a massive opportunity! Congratulations on discovering the site. :) I do of course respect your need to make a living - which will work, up until that AI replaces you, three years from now. I should know - it will probably replace me too!
Wow Dave. I would think that with your level of certainty you are expressing that I’m a “50 cent soldier”, you should be able to easily beat me in debate and show me to be completely wrong on the facts. But no. You keep running away from the facts faster than a gold medal sprinter at the Olympics. Weird. You’re just giving me this win on a silver platter. You have NOTHING.
But I am entertained by your hysterically funny certitude that I’m a 50 cent soldier. Your combination of delicious conspiracy fanaticism and paranoia is so precious! Please, keep posting! This is the most I’ve laughed since learning that the Mango Mussolini and a dozen top fascist Republican scumbags prancing around hugging and kissing and spewing their sputum in each others’ faces without masks, pretending to believe their own lies, finally caught the non-existent hoax virus in the most beautiful Karmic display the world has ever seen!
Starting at around 5:30 0f the video Vandana (who some here seem to know a little about) lays out how Gates has , in her words, become a “dictator”.
She is quite the conspiracy theorist, engaging in a lot of hyperbole. Clearly she is on the lunatic fringe. Sarcasm filter enabled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNM833K22LM
Mohammed, you obviously don’t want to have a conversation, since you can never respond to what I say and you keep changing the subject. I can have a more useful conversation with a wall, or a dog. Oh well. What else can I expect, trying to reason with a cult of conspiracy fanatics?
Thanks for the laughs, guys!
Have just watched Chris’s latest video about wearing a mask. It is a strong argument for the policy.
The video may be difficult to find, for some reason. I found it easily on the YouTube app on my smart TV but it doesn’t seem to appear in the PP channel, on my computer. And when I did eventually find it through a web search, there were no playable formats for my browser. Very strange.
I clicked on the video and got a message saying my browser did not support that format. Weird. Still trying to find it, dancing around doing the YouTube censor/game playing obviously designed to frustrate & deter users… sigh.
Would you care to share a little bit about your background here? That might earn you a bit more credibility and respect as someone new here as opposed to assuming a verbal posture that has devolved into one more of derision than discussion. Just a suggestion.
Thanks for the suggestion, ao, but I already did in a post to Dave. It was promptly ignored, as one would expect when dealing with a religious cult. Truth is, ao, as soon as the cult saw that I don’t completely spout their party line, I was immediately cast into the trash heap of “you’re just programmed by the MSM” or “a paid soldier of [fill in the blank] 50 cent army”, and you know that. So why pretend it would be any different if I provided a complete portfolio of my whole life experience and education/background up to now? The only thing that matters to these right wing-tards who get their “truth” from social media memes and conspiracy-oriented alternative facts echo chamber, is that I express 100% compliance to their dogma, with no more than 0.5 degrees of variance.
Even the host of this site has settled on an automatic paranoid conspiratorial dismissal of anybody who would have the temerity to express any disagreement or point out any errors with his hypotheses because they are by definition part of the “left-of-center” group of trouble makers who can’t possibly have any valid reasons to disagree with him. Only an evil/misled liberal would come here to disagree with anything, because they are only interested in tearing down and DBS attacks, etc., which pretty much sets tone and enforces the boundaries of dissenting opinion, doesn’t it?
Don’t worry, I won’t stay long enough to get banned. This has been an interesting anthropological study.
Cheers
Could you please tell me which number post contained that information that was stated to Dave? I must have missed it when I went back and searched. Thanks.
I meant in response to Steve. #127 put my cards on the table.
Hmm, looks like the masks video is easier to get to now and it plays on my browser too.
I remember Chris’s mentioning the Czech Republic (or Czechia) where cases are growing by deaths are flat. Czechia introduced a mandatory face mask policy early on so that seems like a reason for this dichotomy. However, I just checked the data on both Worldometers and Johns Hopkins where the data don’t match the above narrative. Deaths are actually rising quite quickly there, now at twice the rate of what it was in April. Was the tweet referenced by Chris a blatant lie (not by Chris but by the tweeter) or is there something else going on? I seem to recall that either mask rules were relaxed or the population were beginning to get lax. This could explain it, but not the incorrect tweet. It could be that the tweet was from a month ago when the rate was rising but the deaths were not, though we always see a lag, anyway.
Some posters provide links to support their conclusions. Others not so much or not at all.
I would like to draw attention to a request sand_puppy made in comment #7, a request which I support:
May I request posters supply links to supporting evidence and sources. A strong opinion without supporting data is just an assertion.
My son in law lost his mother to Covid, and he is angry that Trump got the highest standard of care and then says…”Don’t be afraid of Covid”.
There are a couple of things here to unpack. First is the assumption that only the FDA sanctioned expensive therapies work …and Trump got them …and Trump therefore is not pulling for the common man and does not represent the common man.
Not so fast…Trump tried to bring us HCQ (The drug for the common man) and it shattered his credibility on all things Covid. He was destroyed by the Media and Big Pharma and Fauchi. He didn’t have a chance to sway public opinion with 96% of the media relentlessly attacking him, and fake studies (Surgisphere) carefully timed to promote Remdesivir and discredit HCQ. Was this a conspiracy against truth and honest science? Seems to have all the trappings.
So why did the Mainstream Media have credibility and not Trump and the conservative camp? Because it was proven over 3 plus years that Trump stole the election with the help of the Russians so therefore Trump was not credible on anything. It was pounded into the American psyche every night by Rachel Maddow and her cohorts. There was no doubt about Russiagate and if you questioned the narrative you were a denier. You were a conspiracy theorist…You were not allowed to hold an opposing position. The force of the Media overwhelmed the Truth.
Now we see in document disclosures that this really was a conspiracy…carefully crafted by HRC to save her own position and coverup blatant crimes. But unfortunately for the United States she won the PR battle for 3+ years and destroyed the credibility of the conservative camp through her lies and through the help of her co-conspirators, and the damage will never be undone.
She is like the Covid superspreader who infects all around her. She is case one…The disease radiates from her. In this case the disease is mental…it is spread by infectious lies. And even when the truth comes out…the damage cannot be reversed.
You might ask “Why is Trump such an obnoxious asshole?”…and maybe now you have the answer. He has been falsely attacked for 3+ years and fighting daily for his honor. The attacks that took away his standing with the American people on Russiagate may very well have contributed to the Covid Death Count by allowing the false narrative about the dangers and inefficacy of HCQ to flourish.
Trump tried to tell us about HCQ (the drug for the common man)…He was shut down. Now we know he was right about HCQ and soon to be proven right about Russia.
One quote sums up this extreme level of delusion:
You might ask “Why is Trump such an obnoxious asshole?”...and maybe now you have the answer. He has been falsely attacked for 3+ years and fighting daily for his honor.The ability of cultists to adopt total amnesia of history, no matter how recent, and write such a fantastically fictional version of reality with a straight face, is truly astounding. And frightening, given that there are tens of millions of them, and they vote. People outside the cult, on the other hand, remember that he was an obnoxious asshole well before Trump "heroically tried to save the world with HCQ", and well before "the Russia hoax", and well before Rachel Maddow's "infectious lies" (which the cultists can never specify), and well before "the deep state conspiracy to bring him down", and well before his 2016 campaign when he began his campaign with his racist obnoxious "Mexicans are rapists, murderers, drug dealers", and well before his obnoxious purveying of the racist Obama birther conspiracy, and well before is obnoxious string of sexual assault behavior with his admission that "I just grab them by the pussy...I move on them like a bitch, I don't even ask...when you're famous you can do that", and well before he set up his fraudulent Trump University to con and scam thousands of students out of their money, and well before he ripped off contractors he hired refusing to pay what he agreed and telling them, "you can sue me but my lawyers will keep you busy for years until you give up from exhaustion or run out of money," and well before he barged into the (underage) girls' dressing rooms at the Miss Universe pageants he owned to catch them naked. Cultists could easily check old newspaper stories from the 1980s and 1990s and see how New Yorkers who knew him described him, with all of the various adjectives that were synonymous with "obnoxious asshole", if they wanted to know. So of course they will never do that.
BillV,
Your arguments about Trump’s personality flaws are geared to elicit emotional response. Trump is our strongest fighter against the Deep State Globalist Cabal that would strip us of our sovereignty. You can all it a conspiracy theory, but the evidence of this thing, this cabal, is easy to see by just looking at Europe… Technocratic rule, loss of border sovereignty, loss of monetary sovereignty.
Trump is doing all the right things;
- He has started no wars (Syria)
- He killed ISIS (the plaything of the McCain arm of the deep state)
- He has promoted peace in recent, groundbreaking Middle East agreements
- He is pulling back our troops
- He is strengthening our sovereignty vs giving it up;
- stronger border (wall)
- giving the China-run WHO the middle finger during Covid
And now, as well explained by Olive oil, the lies and duplicity of the US Deep State, and their five eyes friends, are coming to light. The Russia hoax is coming to light.
There are a few posters here who are trapped in the matrix you are trying to protect Bill… but the vast majority are truth seekers who will immediately see through your efforts. Trump is not perfect, but he is for everything I am for, and he is against everything I am against, and he sure as hell knows how to get things done.
I look forward to your attempt to counter my bullet point list Bill…