How do COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna compare and how, when and where do I get the vaccine? | ConsumerLab.com
what about those folks…and THEIR human rights …to live?
These aren’t “vaccines” in any traditional sense. They are experimental mRNA gene “therapies”. They have not completed phase 2 (safety) or phase 3 (efficacy) trials. For more than a few reasons there is a structural deficit in trust.
You may find fewer takers of your appeal to emotion on this site versus others. Nobody (here) wants grandma dead. But the bug may not be the only play against grandma on the field.
Hello!!
I just wanted to add, as a subject I would like to see covered, if that’s possible to have a brief description of the different types of tests other than PCR – for example Spain now authorizes:
- TMA (Transcription Mediated Amplification)
- RT-LAMP (Reverse Transcriptase Loop-Mediated Isothermal Amplification)
On the other hand, there is also the “lateral flow test”
Well, how do these tests compare?
Can the above TMA and RT-LAMP be as flawed as the PCR?
Is there any that you would take yourself, if there it is mandatory in order to travel?
Thank you so much Chris!
Looking forward to your new show format, which I will probably catch in playback.
Cheers
With all due respect Frosty, the “vaccines” which aren’t “vaccines” at all but “gene therapy” have real concerns. We are told by the manufacturers and “experts” the “vaccine” doesn’t prevent Covid. It doesn’t prevent transmission (hence continued masks, prevention measures, distancing, and more business closing) and they don’t know how long it “may” work (from 3 months to a year)
I spoke to my Dr. friend yesterday about this at length. He is a retired infectious disease doc/specialist )and professor which I didn’t know) before our discussion. He taught infectious disease for years and lived in South America for a number of years. He by no means is an anti-vaxxer. He stated to me because of the numerous questions/issues surrounding the “vaccine” he will not take it yet. He had concerns about distribution (2nd shots being available when needed) storage of vaccines being maintained at subzero temperatures and handling after removal. Also concern about variants. How often will additional “vaccines” be required. When manufacturers fail to follow standard protocols of testing, and protected from liability it raises concerns. I don’t think anyone here would try and dissuade you from getting the vaccine, we respect your right to do so. You should also respect other’s rights to refuse the “vaccine” until proven safe and effective. Be well
Edit to add, I just re-read your post and agree, ALL lives matter, including the unborn.
Frosty, have you spent much time actually learning from the content provided here over the last year? There are safe, cheap and effective drugs available that have a higher effectiveness in preventing Covid than the “vaccines” themselves. Not only that, but they can cure an infection once it happens, even late stage, something the “vaccines” can’t do. How can you be so certain that the “vaccines” are safe? Antibody Dependent Enhancement is a real thing in animal trials of previous coronavirus vaccines. This is a longer term effect that may not be apparent for a few months. It may turn out that the “vaccines” are more dangerous than the disease!
When you say, we must do our part for society, you assume , that the vaccines are healthy and do not harm and meet their objectives.
As for wanting to fly a plane , go to school etc… I like those, but really think we would be better off and I prefer to be a hermit as you suggest. Just because people are mostly bad. ( or society , rather )
The truth is the vaccines kill your immune system. But if there was something deadly at more door step , i would risk the possibility of permeant injury over the risk of death , when its there. In medicine , they speak of risk/reward all the time in medicines.
We are over vaxxed for diseases that do not kill you , or even permanently harm you. but they do prove do permanent damage to the immune system, they may also cause autism ( shown in CDCs own studies _though noted mostly in black boys ), possibly other neurological conditions like MS, CFS, etc. SO, yes on a vaccine like small pox. no on hep b and hep a for 5 year olds. no on measles and many others. I am questionable on polio, as it is not a pleasant disease, but we do not know the true risk of severe disease, because of the many cases caused by the vaccines. I am more pro polio than against. So to say all anti vax people do not care about society is wrong. We actually care. AS i do not want to pay long-term care for people injured from vaccines that is worse than the disease. It is a real thing. You only think medicine has positive consequences and no negative. Again, your premise is all wrong. You think people who do not want to vax , are sitting around , I want to hurt both myself and society.? no they are thinking it will hurt them , but society wont give a crap about them… AND that is true… they wont. AND they dont want others also get hurt, as the costs are burdened by all of us as you say. Its just a more thorough perspective. the problem is there is huge money in vaccines, there is agenda to cover the harm ( that is a fact ) in fact its a fact with all meds , because of the money… Anyone who disagrees is really gullible. SO its really only ignorant sheeple, that are not only wanting to vax every chance they get ( without question ) , they are the same demanding everyone else vax too… The y are scared // they live in fear… That is exactly how tyrant govt and BIG money work… they thrive on your fears… Start living and stop fearing… They have not answered the real questions regarding this disease and the permanent injury caused by it. they have not also answered anything about durability of the vaccine, and with different strains… etc… AND there are no long-term studies. It does seem much more allergenic than most vaccines already… That huge because its harming people and even killing people that would not die… for a disease that has yet to kill .1% of the US , the vaccine risk of death if all vaccinated is well above this , if just accounting for severe allergy (life threatening ) . This vaccine , easily has demonstrated that the cure is worse than the disease so far… AND no promise of durability or less transmissibility… That means low reward… /high risk… === DO NOT TAKE.
And millions deceased around the world. Susan not is responsible except as an American citizen paying taxes that went from Fauci’s NIAID to fund Gain of Function research in Wuhan China that was inbedding the exact spike glyoprotein that makes the Coronavirus dangerous today according to a report from Fox News’s Steve Hilton. Also what about all the officials who have banned effective treatments like hydroxychloroquine?
If your unvaccinated and want to be in public what about wearing an N-95 respirator which filters the air you exhale? (Of course you would have to shave any beard in the area where the respirator fits your face.)
Frosty - Your logic is extremely difficult to follow, partly because your syntax is so awful. Apparently you don’t pay attention to grammar.
As Dr. Kory told us yesterday, ivermectin does an extraordinarily good job at clearing the virus from our systems. Since the vaccines do not prevent transmission of virus to another person, I fail to see how me not taking the vaccine somehow endangers OTHER people as you assert. My choosing to take ivermectin as prophylaxis and take Vit D3 does a BETTER job at protecting others (and myself) than you choosing to take the vaccine. So please stop with the “you’re killing others” arguments.
I am technically “elderly” and definitely one of the “cancer afflicted” and from all that I’ve read and researched, I actually feel safer being around those who have NOT had the vaccine.
Furthermore, we DO NOT yet know if these vaccines are safe. How can we possibly know when adequate testing has not been done and there has not been sufficient passage of time to truly know if they are safe or not. Right now, it’s a gamble.
One of the “tells” is how hard the government is pushing these vaccines as opposed to things like HCQ, Ivermectin, vitamin D, etc. The government has created a myth that they are there for your protection and safety. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Government is primarily interested in maintaining and growing its power and the flow of money for salaries, benefits, and pensions of its minions (i.e. politicians and supportive bureaucrats). And government regularly collaborates with its cronies (such as Wall Street, the technocrats, etc.) for their mutual benefit and enrichment as opposed to the benefit of the people. History abounds with examples demonstrating these facts over and over again.
At one point CM mentioned discussing research on the vaccine. From what I have seen he has been quiet from a pro/con perspective. Dr Kory doesnt seem to be against the vaccine, but I sense he tries to be diplomatic to avoid land mines.
There are lots of strong claims made here, many of which seem dubious and well on the way to the conspiracy realm. It would be difficult to determine an accurate path based on the discussion threads here.
The US has been on the path for the vaccine as the solution for a year already, and it is probably impossible to divert significantly from this path. In addition, vaccines have brought many benefits against past diseases, so are seen favorably in the general public.
I would be interested in clear CM style investigation about that we know or dont know about the vaccine. I respect the line between vaccine/anti-vax is a hard line to straddle and its hard to represent the situation without seeming crazy to the other side.
In my family (wife/adult kids), I have talked a number onto Ivermectin, however, they mostly just think of it as a low risk thing to try, but still maintain isolation. They dont see it as a permanent solution. They will take the vaccine as soon as they are able. I expect that it would take a full throat-ed endorsement by the medical establishment/NIH to alter their thinking. I dont think that would happen as the change of direction is too large for a large bureaucracy.
Your posts are full of hyperbolic invective, learned from propaganda proffered by the likes of CNN, WAPO, and the NYTimes.
As with the vast majority of members here, knowing what I know about supplements and therapeutics, and having had personal possession of the medications in question for at least six months, and knowing that the mRNA vaccines are completely new in their mechanism of action, utterly untested in terms of long term consequences, and questionable even in terms of their efficacy in stopping viral spread, I will NOT be taking the vaccine.
You said, We now have a weapon ..to keep us alive and give us a chance..should we come down with covid.. YES!! Chris!! way to get the word out...Thank you.. I tell everyone I meet.. and ... YES..everyone ..should have this advantage,,I agree.. .but lets look closer...at what cost?? If this is an option to the masses??? The BIG THINKERS..in charge of all outcomes in this mess ..will have a much harder job..getting this cleaned up... If they allow the public... ivermectin....proof...and recommendations.... to see the light of day..this would sabatoge the vaccine effort..thats clearly what would happen. IN this anti vaccine hysteria...climate...This is specious. We don't just have one weapon. Indeed, it is very very clear that Ivermectin is our single best weapon. If you really care about saving people's lives, you should become an evangelist for high dose (relatively speaking vs normal RDA-type daily vitamins) Vitamin D3. It's the single easiest thing everyone should be doing to steel their immune systems against the virus - read this please; #VitaminDforAll: Over 200 Scientists and Doctors Call For Vitamin D To Combat COVID19 (vitamind4all.org) Did you know that a simply prophylaxis regimen consisting of quercetin, vitamin C, and bromelain was shown to reduce one's chances of becoming infected by over 90% in a study of health care workers in Turkey?
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3682517Now, imagine if someone were to take Vitamin C, Zinc, Vitamin D3 (5000 IU), quercetin, bromelain, and a host of other supplements daily... might that person not be almost completely protected from the worst outcomes? Aren't all of these readily accessible to all? The availability of highly efficacious (together, in cocktail) supplements, along with the prescription therapeutic (or not = apple flavored horse paste) Ivermectin in reserve = a much better proven protective shield, with a much better understood risk vs reward profile, vs the experimental gene therapy "vaccine". As others have said... have at it. Just don't tell me what to do, especially in your current state of propagandized blindness and emotionality.Synergistic Effect of Quercetin and Vitamin C Against COVID-19: Is a Possible Guard for Front Liners
Results: A total of 113 persons included. No significant difference detected between groups in terms of other features.Mean age of QCB group was 39.0 ± 8.8 years and control group was 32.9 ± 8.7.Average follow-up period for the QCB group was 113 days, and for the control group, 118, during follow-up period, 1 healthcare worker in QCB group and 9 out of 42 in control group had COVID-19.One of cases was asymptomatic, while others were not.Transmission risk hazard ratio whose did not receive QCB was 12.04 (95% Confidence interval= 1.26-115.06, P = 0.031).
…and that is their high rate of mutation/evolution. By the time a vax is ready, the CV is changing and thereby possibly evading the antibodies the vax will evoke. We may already be seeing this with the South African variant (which is probably why Israel has banned international flights, and Germany is considering it).
NO problem, says, Moderna, we’ll just reformulate our (experimental mRNA) vaccine to make CV-19 vax 2.0! Oops! The damn virus has another variant! Well, we’ll just formulate CV-19 vax 3.0! So many paydays to be had! As the villain in Robocop said, “Who cares if it works!?!?”
IMO, vaccines as a cure for the pandemic (such as it is, ahem, 45 PCR cycles), is a pipe dream. A really expensive pipe dream. Therapeutics are the way out of the maze, probably in a cocktail, just like HIV: IVM, plus-plus-plus. Simple, safe, effective, cheap.
If we ever get a sea change and the cultural narrative turns towards questions of What took so long to find/use IVM et al, and then the question becomes Who kept the information from us while (hundreds of) 1000s died? Oh man. There won’t be enough popcorn… Not to make light of the dead and the suffering, but to see the evildoers get their comeuppance will be a sweet and long-overdue pleasure…
A fella can dream, no?
May Fortune smile upon us all!
VIVA – Sager
You say this disease is a killer but it should read killer* with the * representing elderly with preexisting conditions. I have known people who have died of Covid ™. Every single one had a whole host of preexisting conditions. None of them ate healthy or took vitamins. Uncontrolled diabetes was the most common condition with all 3 of the people I know who died having it.
I have had a ton of vaccines. My shot record is 2 pages 10pt font. I am not an antivaxxer. I am an anti mrna vaxer because I have had allergies as well as a bad reaction to a vaccine before. I also have a right to live. I’d rather try and keep myself healthy with diet, exercise vitamins and the occasional pill of IVM. You don’t like it? How about you stay home because I have been working through this whole thing. No staying home, stay safe for us essential workers!
Fear…
With the internet hitting its full throttle these days, rampant fear in every shade has …imho…taken over common sense.
Dr. Chris…battles fear, with hard stats…something that I admire.
In everything in life, there is risk.
Acceptable risk,stupid /knee jerk reaction risk,and risk that is carefully weighed against other risks.
Surviving a long life…depends on ones skill in measuring and acting on those perceived risks.
imho…This shot…or the multiples that may follow are a prime example of this.
I HAD COVID…you do not want it…I am still suffering from the damage it did.
The older you are, the least likely you can survive it.Its a beast!
Do you want this disease around when you get old??
or fat? or diabetic?..or cancerous?..or immune suppressed for any reason?
NO…thats why the only answer …is to drive it out of our population…
Asian countries have done this… and enjoy life the way we used to.
Unfortunately…because the rules were not followed to contain this threat…like the Asians did…(mainly …by covid deniers).
The disease, in now far too entrenched in our society.
Vaccines are the only answer at this point…an unfortunate situation,I agree.
Look …if you can get away with not getting vaccine shots fine…I did,for about 30 years.
Then I had the misfortune of getting a flu, that knocked the socks off of me,almost did not make it.
Now I get the flu shot yearly…
Why?because after being sick for weeks thinking I was a goner…This expierience enlighten me to risk…risk of life…in a very real way.
Now…
I want even the smallest chance of that shot helping me survive.
Screw the thimersol…ect…
If it helps me stay alive…I am all for it.
Ivermectins longterm use has never been studied…Its good for short term use …but as a longterm protection against this virus?good luck.
What about when the virus renders its effect void?What then?
Mrna vaccines are new…Yes…But so were lots of medical marvels,keep that in mind.
Is the vaccine program the Philadelphia experiment ?as so many fear?
Time will tell…but common sense,says NO…
Are there people who will have a bad expierience with the new Covid vaccine?
Yes.
But what percentage of us?
So many here, in response to my post… …gleefully exclaim the( huge fib) that chances of death from covid19, is a fraction of 1%.
This is false.
Not to mention…
Think about what this virus can morph into?.. if let to mutate uncontrolled?
Thats…what scares me.
This is NOT an ordinary run of the mill pathogen.
Based on my exhaustive research…ITS AN AIRBORNE VERSION of (HIV).wrapped in a cold virus…among other things.imho.
and yes.
I have educated myself with ALL of Dr. Martensons work as well as a slew of other epidemiologists.
Whats really disturbing, is that lots of folks do not consider, what covids FULL impact will be.
Death stats, do not even take into account the long term disability that this dreaded disease will bring down on million of lives if left to flourish unchecked.
Heart/Kidney/neurological damage is just the start!
YES…Taking the Immune enhancing supplements will help one avoid infection…at THIS time…but what about a few hundred or thousand mutations down the line?..What then??
It is possible the cytokine storm element of this disease will come earlier in the infection cycle…
Possibly preferring Stronger immune systems… as its target…What THEN?
The advantage of the mRNA vaccines is that they give a persons system… a new skill (so to speak)…and adjusting for the mutations is easy.
Yes…It will most likely be a yearly flu type shot…unfortunately.
IMHO…we have to get beyond the trap of thinking we are being mislead to make the vaccine makers rich…
This is fear over simple common sense.
Do you think these companies can do all the work to come up with these life saving treatments for free?
No…everything has its price.
Even taking this shot personally…It may protect us older folks and allow us to live 2…or even 10 more years…?.but as our immune systems fail with age,as EVERYONES system…DOES, get more sluggish as they age…(NO exceptions)…its a good risk to take,imho.
Alternatively…you can spin the wheel of fate…thinking that you can HIDE…from this disease…but,
Good luck with that,…as Covid19 has already proven what a formidable foe it really can be,.
I like the odds of the vaccine.
We are ALL responsible for ending this nightmare…as far as Susan?..if she has a condition that prevents her from taking the vaccine…No…she is not responsible.
But simply wearing a mask for the remainder of her life in public? …and adhering to the protocal?forever?..well…thats a tall order …that most likely will not happen.
Mysterymet…poster…
YOUR DEAD WRONG!
4 members of my family work in the hospitals.
two DIRECTLY with covid19 patients…
Life in the I.C.U. is a (mash experience)at lots of times…and younger and younger folks are losing the fight with this disease…lots…in the prime of their health…
The thing about vitamin regimens…is that folks,eventually, get sloppy…they forget…run out of money,think this virus thing is all overblown… all over…then…it strikes…when your guard is down.
Well…I better end this…the grammer police is coming…(MY fear)…
Driving this OUT of our population completely, is the only answer at this point.
The vaccines will do this…the question is,
is in WHAT? timeline…
two years?..or twenty?
As a country leader in this world…Our allowed…worlds reserve currency privilege,will be revoked if its the 20 year time frame.
Living a long life is the goal…but if its living as a third world nation, because we could not all be on the same page in defeating this challenge…well…then…?
thats just a damn shame.
for our kids…if anything.
p.s.
FACT…
WEAKENING the Diseases ability to mutate…depends on reducing the amount disease, in a population
>>>I like the odds of the vaccine.
We get it Frosty, you’ve made your point a few times now.
As long as we continue to have large parts of the world with significant virus circulating, the mutation rate will eventually lead to reduced effectiveness of the vaccine and may lead to a need for yearly vaccine.
Lets hope that IVM is broad spectrum enough to last. IVM seems like the perfect tool to tamp down the virus now, while we figure out the long term safety of mrna vaccines.
From what ive read, there are now at least three significant mutations that are ramping the spread. We seem to have plateaued in the US, but as the new variants take hold, it seems that the rate of infection will spike again as we head toward spring.
I feel we have a short window to crush C19 with IVM, Vaccines and whatever else can be brought to bear.
Yesterday’s broadcast on the HighWire offered an additional reason why IVM and HCQ were so fervently discredited. We may be on the cusp of discovering (admitting?) that viral diseases aren’t nearly as difficult to address as has long been assumed. And especially with very cheap drugs. In other words, far beyond just C19 but many other viral denizens too. This would be devastating to Big Pharma and the vaccine industry.
How lovely to hear you calling for these things, which as a boomer myself, I followed in high school I thought that “my” generation was going to make this shift and we failed… I warms me to see young people getting it! Have you read this book? The “Song of Increase” by Jacqueline Freeman Listening to the Wisdom of Honeybees for Kinder Beekeeping and a Better World.
Chris, what you have done for us since the pandemic was just a rumor a year ago has literally been lifesaving. Thank you. I know it’s not your “main thing” but you do it sooo well. For instance, I just saw this in Business Wire this morning. Who’s going to decrypt it for me? https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20210129005105/en
spreading…and respreading unabated…,you lost the war.
The numbers are too high in the circulation of the disease,in the population, to control.
We are there NOW…
The variant mutations are now too hard to get ahead of.
We are now stuck in an endless cycle of sickness…
Where this leads?
Hospitals become overwhelmed easily …as we have been witnessed to…
Then…when you get sick…and need oxygen…or other hospital-acquired amenities…
They tell you to wait in your car…or worse yet …at home…
So …YES…the more anti- vaccers running around …talking about THEIR rights…keeping this disease going…
Often,…sick…brutally shedding virus…not even knowing they are even sick…at times…The further we are
away from whipping this thing.
Hopefully, we will have a short winter and folks can get outside more…upping their D3 levels…
I,… for the life of me…do not know why ,winter supplementation is not being broadcasted as front page prevention…
I guess you have to have 70 years of studies that do not get caught up on one thing or another …before someone says …YES…Vitamin D3 levels…ARE very important.
The western medical system…is FAR from perfect…but I am glad this did not come along 40 years ago…we really would be struggling to get out of this one,at that point.
Is it an extinction event?
It can be…if we do not play the correct cards.