Further to anything I’ve said on this, anyone who thinks there will be a timely political solution to the whole debacle will be severely disappointed. I have certainly given up all hope in the Australian political system… Personally, I’d be surprised if the TP won enough influence at the next election. And even if they did, they are not addressing the real elephant in the room, LIMITS TO GROWTH.
You can stop the corporations from influencing Washington all you like, you can even get rid of the Fed, both admirable feats if they can be achieved, but we would still be heading over the cliff.
The big difference between the TP and OWS is that OWS is OUTSIDE the political arena, at least for the time being. So it can make claims that seem outrageous to the unitiated without having to worry about losing political support, so they are able to make people aware of what is TRULY required to be done. Fingers crossed.
Give it a rest? Heffe is absolutely correct, until people realise we need a complete reboot, they will argue around the peripherals. It’s time for a Revolution, and I hope like hell that OWS is the start of it.
Mike
[quote=Poet]Heffe
So, let’s focus on what we CAN do to influence the existing reality, alright? [/quote]
Unfortunately… we are running out of time. The "existing reality" is stuffed. Forget politics, it’s every man for himself now. And those who won’t listen, well they will just be coallateral damage…
Yeah, I’m in a great mood this morning!
Mike
Occupy Wall Street is Fox News’ worst nightmare, so they’re doing everything they can to downplay this movement and distort its message. It’s up to people like us to tell the real story. This amazingly powerful video—featuring Elizabeth Warren, no less—does exactly that. It’s a must-see for everyone in America who’s got any questions about what #OWS is really all about. Check it out, and share it with your friends on Facebook http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wK1MOMKZ8BI
how come the "embed video" html tags don’t work any more?
Hey Mike,
Not that this will in any way improve your day but I thought I’d at least chime in on your point of "running out of time". I think that is a fairly common perspective and the exponential nature of things does make it seem like things are speeding up.
But if viewed from another vantage point, time could be seen as one of the more sustainable resources we have. Given enough of it I think this predicament may get worked out although the outcome may not be that predictable!
We do what we can. I appreciate your efforts to waken the masses.
Coop
What the Occupy movement is missing by a mile is the human element, as the objectification of corporations as monolithic and amorphous is based on a simplistic understanding of business fundamentals.By dwelling in vast generalizations, the scapegoating becomes easy; the rich, the one percent, the CEOs, the corporations, the multinationals, the banks, the government.What is needed is a more refined level of discernment as to which corporations are legitimate targets for focused wrath, and which are the good ones that deserve our support and patronage.Further, the individuals within the culpable organizations are easily identified, as are their all-too-human decisions.There have been some extraordinarily egregious shenanigans in the banking world in the last few years that are grounded in decades of development and history.The perpetrators are well known and easily called out, but the protesters are not yet targeting the identifiable cadre of predators that hide behind that apparently steely corporate veil.The executives that generated the mortgage crises are also the ones that benefited from the bailouts.OK, who are they?What are their names?And why did we expect anything different from them?A sharpened discernment based on real knowledge available to anyone that cares to look would lead to banners and effigies on parade down Wall Street with faces and names.The Occupy movement has a hazy focus because there is little realization that the corporate entity is a distinctly human one.The corporations that exert apparently human qualities like greed and predation do so because the people that run them are greedy and predatory.The more generalized the scapegoating, the farther the protestors stray from the real culprits.Meanwhile, the vast majority of American companies are run by people that take social responsibility very seriously, but their acts are poor fodder for headlines, and the discernment sufficient to praise their intentions is mightily diluted.Every corporation has its own culture, presence, and collaborative consciousness that invariably disseminates from the top downward.The corporate front that most of us encounter is ephemeral in many ways, but the people within each corporation are quite real, and collectively generate the being, the existence, and the reality of global commerce.If we are to understand the hard times that are upon us, then a more focused knowledge of the Wall Street firms that put us here is required, as they are all quite different, for better and for worse.
[quote=JeffMS]What is needed is a more refined level of discernment as to which corporations are legitimate targets for focused wrath, and which are the good ones that deserve our support and patronage. [/quote]OK, I’ll bite… give me five.
Oh and, ever heard of paragraphs? They make reading long dissertations so much easier…
Mike
I’ve got a great idea! Why don’t we all start practicing astral projection and remote viewing ala Stargate Project http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stargate_Project
and the more skilled among us should be able to psychically contact more advanced and intelligent alien species and ask for help in addressing our global dilemma. There is science behind this approach and it would seem to be more practical and feasible at the present time than pie-in-the-sky ZG/RBE fantasy world thinking that seems to be endlessly regurgitated but never implemented in any kind of real world practical fashion.
Yes, puhleeze stop talking and do something or give it a rest!!!
DTM-
I think there are relatively few here who believe in a political solution to the whole mess, even if some of us have specific ideas on what a better system would look like. The biggest value I see (potentially) in things like Occupy Wall Street, the grassroots Tea Party (it’s still alive despite being overshadowed and pushed into a dusty corner in MSM by the big-corporate conservative sanitized doppelganger), the End the Fed movement, etc. etc., is that they can help raise awareness. I don’t expect either or all of them to change the system on their own, but I think it’s possible it may have some positive effect on raising awareness of the predicaments we face so more people make some necessary changes to their lives to adapt to a future of less. Awareness will help bring about resilience on the personal level at least. Also of importance, exposing the crimes and criminals responsible for the outright fraud (which the administration has chosen not to investigate or prosecute) and holding them accountable may not fix the problems, but it will hopefully remove their power or influence at the very least. Yes the vehicle we’re collectively all in will hit the wall regardless, but whether or not those fraudsters retain their power and influence may make a huge difference in how we respond in the aftermath. Going to the car hitting the wall analogy… if they keep their influence, when we stumble out bleeding and confused we will find they’ve sold off all the ambulances and laid off all the emergency responders to build a new gold-plated Hummer just for them.
In my mind, it’s all about making a series of smaller steps to make the outcome a little less painful and bloody. Nothing we do will FIX the problem, but we can at least reduce the level of suffering and make small steps in the right direction. I don’t think Mother Teresa went to India under the assumption she’d end poverty there once and for all, but she still made a difference, right?
[quote=nickbert]I don’t think Mother Teresa went to India under the assumption she’d end poverty there once and for all, but she still made a difference, right?- Nickbert
[/quote]
Hi Nickbert… Did she? Obviously she did make a difference to the people she was directly involved with, but look at how much worse India has gotten since she died?
Mike
[quote=nickbert]In my mind, it’s all about making a series of smaller steps to make the outcome a little less painful and bloody. Nothing we do will FIX the problem, but we can at least reduce the level of suffering and make small steps in the right direction. I don’t think Mother Teresa went to India under the assumption she’d end poverty there once and for all, but she still made a difference, right?
[/quote]
Err, since when has Mother Teresa fought against overpopulation? Being Catholic with all those values, it seems to me her actions actually aggravated the problem of overpopulation more than anything else…
Samuel
Err, since when has Mother Teresa fought against overpopulation? Being Catholic with all those values, it seems to me her actions actually aggravated the problem of overpopulation more than anything else…
[/quote]
Following that line of thinking, Hitler was a hero because he did something about the overpopulation problem? Nyet. Faulty line of reasoning.
[/quote]
No, he was cruel. Mother Teresa was not… We need a noncruel way of doing what Hitler has achieved, if this is your point, I guess so…
Anyway, I should not have brought in religion in the topic. Sorry about this guys. The point is, what was the saying again, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
And that makes me think, what are the intentions of #OWS? Maybe theydo have a point.
Samuel
Once again, it takes an entertainment magazine like Rolling Stone and an investigative journalist like Matt Taibbi to point out what the regular news agencies, networks, and talking heads turn a blind eye to… OWS’s Beef: Wall Street Isn’t Winning, It’s Cheating
"All weekend I was thinking about this “jealousy” question, and I just kept coming back to all the different ways the game is rigged. People aren’t jealous and they don’t want privileges. They just want a level playing field, and they want Wall Street to give up its cheat codes, things like: FREE MONEY. Ordinary people have to borrow their money at market rates. Lloyd Blankfein and Jamie Dimon get billions of dollars for free, from the Federal Reserve. They borrow at zero and lend the same money back to the government at two or three percent, a valuable public service otherwise known as ‘standing in the middle and taking a gigantic cut when the government decides to lend money to itself.’" http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/blogs/taibblog/owss-beef-wall-street-isnt-winning-its-cheating-20111025
The rest of the article really hits home. You’ll want to read this and pass it along to your friends and family.