Doug,It was probably William Black, who was responsible for prosecuting the Keating 5 during the S&L crisis. He has been beating this drum since 2009. There are lots of articles and interviews of him that are well worth reading.
And he was absolutely correct – this has been a major failing of the current administration and is one of the main reasons people are in the streets right now with signs that say "This is not the change I voted for."
Today’s entry at Charles Hugh Smith’s site resonates w many of the recent comments here.
Unmaking a Killing: Rooting out entitlement, parasitism, fraud, rapacious greed, and other guarantors of destruction
My view of OWS from 30,000 feet. Mark Twain said "History doesn’t repeat itself, but it rhymes," Then we had a president (JFK) that started a war in a far off land that few underdstood. He was assassinated by LHO. Now we (had) a president (GWB) that started a war in a far off land that few understand. He was assassinated by the MSM. Then we ramped up spending on butter and guns (the great society), angering many on both sides of the political spectrum. Now we ramped up spending on more butter and guns, angering many on both sides of the political spectrum (Tea Party and OWS).
Then we placed social security into the general fund to fund the unpopular programs. Now I fear we will place IRA’s and 401k’s into the general fund to fund these unpopular programs.
Then the unpopular president (LBJ) was replaced an even bigger crook (RMN) that closed the window on gold. With confidence lost in both leaders and all fiat money, I fear gold will have to be confiscated to launch yet even more nonsense.
That’s all for today, off to see Chris tonight at Twain Harte.
Nate
Even on this blog, people who should know better reflexively jump on statements or actions if they suspect a shred of political bias. It’s understandable that Chris has tried to avoid such actions or statements to quell dissent from the start. If I have one criticism of Chris’s approach it is that sometimes objective truth is sacrificed to avoid political cat fights.
The false tactic that is frequently employed to avoid dissent is to assume some kind of intellectual and/or moral equivalency between the left and right ends of the spectrum. I don’t think that’s true in the macro sense and it certainly isn’t true when broken down to individual issues. There is such a thing as objective verifiable fact. There are also beliefs and values that can be and often have been tested by objective measures. That seems to me to be where we should start in politically charged discussions. What do we know to be true? Where does that knowledge lead us? What conclusions can be drawn and what implications do they have for our particular political biases? If we cannot drop the ego driven shield of a political position to truly try to understand the forces around us, we have no chance of reaching workable solutions.
Perhaps even more importantly, the left right paradigm leads us nowhere. Our gov’t is divided based on that paradigm and the bickering has become more important than seeking solutions. It’s madness. The meaningful divide is up-down. The 99-1% theme captures that paradigm and it is fundamental to the economic and resource predicaments that confront us. The unfortunate fact is that Wall St. and most or our governments are aligned to support the 1%. The OWS movement strikes me as a legitimately populist movement. Our nation seems to go through periodic populist spasms in response to obvious social/economic inequality. That is a good thing at least partially because it does not fit on the left right spectrum. These movements reflect real objective divisions in our society and economy, and the populace (populists) sometimes win in the end if sufficiently united.
I think everyone on this site shares a common vision of where we are going based on the three E’s. And I doubt that there are more than a few of the 1%ers here. That means that we have a great deal in common with both the OWSers and the tea party. So, maybe we can jettison the political rhetoric for a while and focus on the real issues.
There, now I feel better.
Doug
[quote=Dragline]Doug,
It was probably William Black, who was responsible for prosecuting the Keating 5 during the S&L crisis. He has been beating this drum since 2009. There are lots of articles and interviews of him that are well worth reading.
And he was absolutely correct – this has been a major failing of the current administration and is one of the main reasons people are in the streets right now with signs that say "This is not the change I voted for."
[/quote]
Right you are. Now that you mention it, I remember the interview. Thanks.
Doug
[quote=Rector]For the record, I am a hard core conservative, but that doesn’t matter because I am seeing the truth (for the first time) and there is plenty of blame to go around.The Left Right argument as its framed today by MSNBC vs. Fox isn’t complete. OWS and the Tea Party are flip sides of the same coin. Pissed off people with legitimate and accurate complaints:
Our "free market economy" is desperately corrupted and broken. We have obviously slanted the playing field toward the rich at the expense of the poor. [we ARE the poor even if you make six-figures] The American economy is today is NOT a free market. Examples abound.
Our Republic has become an Empire. We are waging war for economic dominance of the planet. This was not part of the original plan for America. Whether its just misplaced do-gooderism, imperialism, or whatever, we weren’t designed to garrison the freakin planet and try to force people to act like Jeffersonian democrats.
The left in the country has succeeded in pandering to the lower class and has created an entitlement culture that has bankrupted the country and destroyed the culture. We are socialists, and there is no hope for a new future here.
The Right has substituted neocon colonialism and crony capitalism for free markets and republican government. Unabashed greed and consumption have replaced vocation and ethics. The power elites make a mockery of the law and our system. Nothing is as it seems.
The Left has sold out to race baiting, pandering, and voter fraud in a desperate attempt to maintain power. It has embraced every form of debasement and called it progress. Public sector unions have destroyed the public finances of our municipal governments. Greed, screaming in the street, and union money funneled to socialists-keep the big retirement checks flowing. Me fucking first! [Started in the 80’s]
Corporations buy power inside the system we have allowed to develop as we watch American Idol. No one gives a sh!t. Our big corporations privatize gains and socialize losses. The Fed taxes us all to keep it going.
The Federal, State, and Local Leviathan (government) now dominates our lives and our economy. We are all rent seekers now. Our economy consists of us doing our own laundry, and regulating the heck out of everything.
Our own lack of work ethic, laziness, stupidity, and union mentality has destroyed the productivity of the American Workforce. The bottom line dominated-dollars above all else outsourcing trend of corporate America is an exercise in greed that puts money above all other considerations. Now our jobs are in China, and we can’t fill opening in the USA because damn few folks here can really put in a day’s hard work. Who wants to mow lawns everyday?
Our society has actively sought to expel God from the public space. 1/2 think its better that way, 1/2 think it sucks. Nobody’s happy. We eat Cheetos and watch porn. God leaves us alone.
Politicians on both sides are completely clueless as to the real problems we face, their causes, and their solutions. Reelection is all that matters. Don’t offend anyone, lest you lose your lifetime benefit plan. We chose candidates who are good looking. Thinkers are laughed off the stage. Palin! What a moron! Obama! WTF were we thinking? Qualifications don’t matter anymore.
There are many things to be frustrated about from the Left and the Right. The situation is beyond repair. Only a total collapse will purge the sickness from the institutions of the USA.
The OWS protests have no unifying theme, because there are so many things wrong, its hard to put your finger on it, or sum it up in a 10 second sound bite. Think of the OWS as the mirror image of the Tea Party. Large groups of people who see legitimate and real problems. Its not that the problems are false, or a complete listing; there are just LOTS of things wrong. We are totally f*cked. People on the Right see it, people on the left see it. Both can be true at the same time.
Rector
[/quote]
Q.E.D.
[Bolding and italics mine]
Officers clearing grounds outside State Capitol
http://www.9news.com/news/article/224539/71/Police-move-in-on-Occupy-Denver I was there. People of all ages peacefully expressing signs that they are waking up to what's happening all over the world. No violence while I was there. ... donsDENVER - The Colorado State Patrol and Denver Police began clearing the Occupy Denver tent camp just after 3 a.m. Friday morning.
The protesters set up dozens of tents on state land and many of them did not leave when the state’s curfew went into effect at 11 p.m. Thursday night, despite an order from the governor and repeated requests from the Colorado State Patrol.
During a news conference on Thursday night, the State Patrol said the protesters could not stay on the land around the Capital, in Lincoln Park, and it said it would enforce the 11 p.m. to 5 a.m. curfew. The police action began at about 3:15 a.m. Friday morning. State Patrol released a statement around 11:20 p.m.:
Pursuant to laws preventing unlawful conduct on state property, individuals illegally gathered at Veteran’s Park have been ordered to vacate by 11 p.m. All tents and structures must be removed from the park, and all overnight activities must be discontinued.
"We have a deep respect for these individuals’ First Amendment rights to assemble and to voice their viewpoints," said Chief James Wolfinbarger of the Colorado State Patrol. "We are happy to facilitate a peaceful assembly, provided it complies with all applicable laws and permit requirements."
… dons
"We have developed a positive relationship with Occupy Denver’s leadership, and we have encouraged them to comply with the state’s orders," Wolfinbarger said. "We appreciate their cooperation in seeking a peaceful resolution."
Additionally, the Colorado State Patrol’s Executive Security Unit will work to provide individuals with an opportunity to express their views at the Capitol Complex while complying with local and state laws.
"The delicate balance of protecting constitutional rights while ensuring public safety is a core responsibility of any police organization," Wolfinbarger said. "However, we must consider the safety, health and well-being of all individuals who wish to use the park."
"Our goal is to give Occupy Denver and other protesters every opportunity to leave Veteran’s Park in a peaceful manner," he concluded. "While it is our responsibility to enforce the law, we must continue to protect the safety of the public."
Just before 11 p.m., the protesters held a news conference where they listed their four areas they would like addressed. They included: The government controls the people, but people should control the government; fiscal accountability and transparency; address the economy immediately; and end campaign fraud.
Chris rocks! I’ll be heading down there soon. Maybe we can throw a little Crash Course party and inform the protestors about the Crash Course!!!
I just posted the video on my blog,
http://subprimejd.blogspot.com/2011/10/chris-martenson-visits-ows.html
Dragline and Doug.
The Right has substituted neocon colonialism and crony capitalism for free markets and republican government. Unabashed greed and consumption have replaced vocation and ethics. The power elites make a mockery of the law and our system. Nothing is as it seems.Agreed except to say the left is indugling in crony capitalism, too. Our treasury department under Obama is nothing more than a branch of Goldman Sachs.
There was a group of citizens about 2 years ago that did the same thing (they got nicknamed the Tea party) although they had no centralized leadership. However, many on the left choose to marginalize them, demonize them, and then started claiming they were being manipulated by corporate powers. I guess we shall see what happens when the shoe is on the other foot.
When I look at the banners and signs from the OWS I see a lot of "sponsorship" from the left based organization already - look at all the Unions that have jumped on the wagon and even the president and members of congress. This already looks a lot less grass-roots than the Tea party. I also worry because I see a whole lot more "us versus them" at the OWS than I did at tea party events.
Safewrite, I don’t disagree with what you said, but I think that was Rector’s quote. When the same group of people control both parties, the only place left to go is the streets.
Toil, toil, bubble and boil…Another day, another royal…
failure on the part of everyone here,
to ask questions that are sincere,
Instead they pose left vs right false dichotomies…
While sifting through their imaginary wealth and paper monies…
Every come to mind, any of you highly intelligent folks, that the problems lie much deeper?
Every think with those billions of neurons, that our contemporary meeting of supply with demand is…backwards??
I see so many well articulated posts here, yet none of them even begin to pose critical analysis of the problem at hand.
Everyone here knows about our infinite growth paradigm, within a finite planet, so why doth thee continue to support the monetary-market economy?
Let me explain it simply;
Companies need to sell their goods, the more the sell and the faster they sell, the better. (Infinite growth)
A government was intended to regulate those companies, as the intent to acquire money leads to destructive acts like monopolies and exploitation. As we can see, government made of biased, uninformed people is highly inefficient and highly corruptable.
If corruption, is any action where labor is exploited, any action where environment is destroyed, then every single purchase we make is corrupt. It is the monetary system at work, companies competing to produce the same crap and convince us that we need this crap. No, those companies are not evil, they are merely playing the game as efficiently as possible. A lot of people get angry and scream about the corporations but they are inherent; a monopolization of a good is the most profitable venture possible, along with creating an artificial scarcity of that good.
These OWS protests are beneficial in that they are motivational, but unless they are accompanied with spreading of awareness, they are useless. The first step towards problem mediation is being aware of the problem, and its roots causes. Sadly, too many are trapped within a two-dimensional world of thought, unable to fathom anything but money and government. We live in a multi-dimensional world, and true solutions will come through transcending this several century old paradigm we adhere to.
Alternatives? Autonomous, volunteer based labor systems, locally produced energy and food, the use of scientific inquiry to arrive to solutions, rather than ‘mob rule voting’. The elimination of 80% of the useless occupations that exist, and open source access to resources. May seem backwards, but its a steady state economy. Its only requirement, is that it doesn’t require, job growth and rampant consumption to operate.
First two parts are true. Companies do need to sell goods. Also, most companies would agree that the more they sell the better. However, your last part "(infinite growth)" does not follow from the first two. Companies do not have to grow. They can grow, they can shrink. All that is necessary is that they don’t loose money - or they eventually go under. They must value add at or above there costs something that a consumer is willing to buy. In fact often companies reach a stable state and do not continue to grow.
Many will disagree with your progressive/socialist viewpoint. I view our government as originally designed to protect property rights. PERIOD! Those property rights may include financial assets or human rights. A government is not there to regulate companies. You even state the reason - "government is made of biased, uninformed people". No government can accurately predict what is needed and will be slow to act to correct problems. A free market where consumers decide the winners and losers by choosing to buy or not to buy a product is much better (IMNSHO) at regulating companies. When the state (via force) limits choice or requires/gives incentives to it’s citizens to buy or use a companies products it destroys this distributed regulation.
I think your going to have a bit of a problem getting a steady state of anything unless population is steady state. Also, you seem to live in this fantasy land where you don’t think people will compete and take advantage of scarce resources for personal gain. It’s this complete lack of ability to recognize human nature that is unlikly to change that leads to these unworkable solutions.
You are not correct in your definition of corruption. Your incorrect definition of corruption stands as the foundation for the point you are trying to make. Once you understand the meaning of corruption, you will see that your assumption is also incorrect. To catagorize every single purchase as corrupt is simply narrow minded and represents the very two dimensional thought that you are crying out against.
Tim
Interesting analysis from a libertarian guy who seems to be trying to bridge a gap:
http://howconservativesdrovemeaway.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-vs-tea-party.html
I especially like his Venn diagram.
He also references this open letter from a tea party activist who was lamenting how his movement became co-opted and explaining how it happened:
http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/kyjo2/an_open_letter_a
Okay fellas, I think that this is something we can all agree on: that this is funny:
http://www.jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/clip_image0016.jpg
Hat tip to Jim sinclair at jsmineset.com
Heffe Wrote:Once again arrogant and pretentious.Toil, toil, bubble and boil…
Another day, another royal…
failure on the part of everyone here,
to ask questions that are sincere,
Instead they pose left vs right false dichotomies…
While sifting through their imaginary wealth and paper monies…
Every come to mind, any of you highly intelligent folks, that the problems lie much deeper?
Every think with those billions of neurons, that our contemporary meeting of supply with demand is…backwards??
I see so many well articulated posts here, yet none of them even begin to pose critical analysis of the problem at hand.
Everyone here knows about our infinite growth paradigm, within a finite planet, so why doth thee continue to support the monetary-market economy?
Let me explain it simply;
[quote=Dragline]Interesting analysis from a libertarian guy who seems to be trying to bridge a gap:
http://howconservativesdrovemeaway.blogspot.com/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-vs-tea-party.html
I especially like his Venn diagram.
He also references this open letter from a tea party activist who was lamenting how his movement became co-opted and explaining how it happened:
http://www.reddit.com/r/occupywallstreet/comments/kyjo2/an_open_letter_a
[/quote]
Really nice articles with great info. Thx for sharing
Chris:
I have immense respect for your thoughts on the economy and global debt, but I have to take exception with your comparision of the two news snippets that you site. As a frequent Fox viewer, I can honestly say that the Mayor Bloomberg piece that you’ve listed is one of MANY reports that Fox has aired on the subject. It is far from being their ONLY report. If you read the Fox piece that you’ve listed, it’s just factual reporting of what the mayor said - no more, no less; more importantly - no bias (If you’re just now losing respect for Mayor Bloomberg, you’ve got A WHOLE LOT of people in line in front of you).
The RT piece that you state as being "a much more balanced summary" states that 800 "peaceful" protestors in New York were met with batons, pepper spray, and mass arrest. Even the most biased individual would have trouble accepting that 800 "peaceful" protestors would meet such an extreme reaction to a "peaceful" exhibition of dissent. With respect to why those 800 met such a fate, I would love to hear, as the late, great, Paul Harvey used to say, "the rest of the story".
Keep up the good work,
Tim