Albacore asserts that such a trial is under way, but provides us no evidence. That’s called a “proof by assertion” which of course is the weakest of weak tea, the last refuge of the incompetent.
They’re way too scared to do a real trial. That’s my conclusion. It might just work. And then where would they be? All the expensive vaccine development, the $1000 RD treatment…all eclipsed by an off-patent drug that sells for $10.
No. That just wouldn’t do.
Not trolling just practicing resilience. Unfortunately politics have entered into this and I am just lining up a plan for this treatment for when we get it. Just a matter of time.
Great Idea
This podcast says it all!
https://youtu.be/_CWWkuz0u3s
Find the error in his logic, really we would all like to hear it!
How about this one: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-begins-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-treat-covid-19
or the WHO’s Solidarity trial?
I can’t help but notice that in your comment you asserted that “they” won’t do a trial, and you didn’t provide any evidence for your assertion. Isn’t that the weakest of weak tea?
Yes, I am aware of how political this has become, and I have limited my postings after stepping into the middle of a US culture war.
But you are talking about it as if only one side is being political, and that anyone who is sceptical about HCQ is pwned by the deep state. What I want to see is the evidence.
To your question: I live in the UK. If I get ill I will stay at home unless it gets serious, at which point I will go to hospital and get whatever treatment the medics consider appropriate.
Albacore said,
You must agree, surely, that there is a real possibility that HCQ will turn out to be a big nothing burgerThere is absolutely no chance the HCQ is a nothingburger. Mounds of data, clinical outcomes, in-vitro studies, and papers showing how HCQ works have been presented over the last two months on this website, many of which can be reviewed in the forum thread, "hydroxychloroquine vs. the Deep State", a title which was at first derided but not so much today. Too many lives have been saved to deny the efficacy of this drug, especially in conjunction with Zinc and Zithromax. We don't know everything but we know a lot; - It works best if given early. All of the studies line up in this way - even those which show failure because we have to admit that HCQ is not effective later in the disease course. When data lines up this way, those of us with pattern recognition skills know it's not random chance. - HCQ's success rate in terms of reducing mortality, if given early in populations at risk (i.e. a nursing home) is somewhere in the range of 90 - 95%. That is HUGE. That is a Game changer. That borders on a cure but I don't want to be hyperbolic so I won't use that word. Your post hardly deserves a response, but I do so for new people coming here who may tend to be thrown off course by your propaganda.
What I want to see is the evidence.Again, the forum thread called, "hydroxchloroquine vs the deep state" has 200 posts worth of evidence. Your request rings very hollow. You are just spewing BS.
The Atlantic has an article which talks about the way this pandemic has appeared in some areas hard, others not, and the difficulty this has lead to a coordinated response in the partisan and political environment we live in right now.
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/05/patchwork-pandemic-states-reopening-inequalities/611866/
Doesn’t give me much hope we here in the US will handle this well.
I worry we are heading towards a public acceptance of 3000 a day dying and no one cares.
Duh, it’s ALL about “money”!!! If there is an effective treatment we won’t be desperate for a vaccine which will put TRILLIONS in the pockets of those who say we have NO right to decide for our own bodies.
Yep Mandate vaccines for 9 billion people. Slavery world wide!!! Oh gosh a treatment that works and costs practically nothing. We will spin it as dangerous, yeah that will work! Or maybe it won’t.
Why such effort put spin on this, your agenda is suspect.
I suggest that you watch the video above. A huge percentage of our population is obese which us a major risk factor for disease and the virus and no one talks about food being medicine. But push drugs and vaccines.
Thousands die every day from preventable disease and very little is said because it produces big bucks. It’s ALL about the money.
This was reviewed in today’s MedCram video by Dr. Seheult. Here is a screengrab from the paper, and I ask that you consider the overall hypocrisy of advocating for Vitamin D with only circumstantial evidence, yet requiring some kind of Gold-plated study for HCQ before we can even talk about it openly. Vitamin D is good, HCQ is good, each in it’s place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zK8LgVx2G8
Albacore provides evidence! Thanks!
How about this one: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-begins-clinical-trial-hydroxychloroquine-azithromycin-treat-covid-19This is also known as: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04358068 Which has the now-infamous secondary-endpoint-of-death:
3. Proportion of participants who died from any cause or were hospitalized through the end of follow-up [ Time Frame: Measured during the 24-week period from and including the day of the first (confirmed) dose of study treatment ]Unlike the remdesivir trial, which happened in a month, this trial will take 24 weeks. Or, 6 months. Why must it take this long? Because. Because they don't want it to finish quickly. Did the remdesivir trial have a 24-week secondary endpoint? OF COURSE NOT! There's $1000 - per treatment - on the line here! We can't be waiting around for any 24 week endpoints. And Chris didn't like the fact they didn't use zinc. Which, HCQ being a zinc ionophore, adding in zinc supplementation would theoretically improve outcomes from all the people with zinc deficiencies. Which it turns out, elderly people happen to have - a zinc deficiency that is. --- [EDIT] Sorry I forgot to add my response to the "SOLIDARITY" WHO-trial. Also known as: https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04330690 Which has a study completion date of...are you ready? March 18, 2022. So far into the future so as to be utterly useless. And, of course, no azithromycin, and no zinc. A short trial end date, AZI, and zinc, might really work well to save people's lives today. We can't have that. Gates wants enough time to get his vaccines deployed. Competition from treatments? Not part of his playbook. He always acts to crush competition. That much is clear from his Microsoft days. You may view this as a culture war. I see it as some money-grubbing scumbags killing Americans for profit. Tomato, tomahto.
You state:
There have been no shortage of BLT comments on this site that have touted HCQ as a wonder drug for Covid. “No one died” “Nobody needed to die” “None of Raoult’s patients died” “None of Zelenko’s patients died”. Blah blah blah.
My expectation is that the more this protocol is studied, the less positive the results will be. This is not an uncommon experience in drug trials, apparently. Whether that means it’s somewhat beneficial, neutral, or somewhat harmful? Well, we will see in time.
The HCQ+ protocol has been studied and it is time for you to become better informed instead of blah, blah, blahing. Your “expectation” is just wrong and it is time you learned better.
In the interest of recycling text, here is a comment I wrote this morning to a post on Medium by a similarly poorly-informed individual named Dana Smith.
Response to Dana Smith re HCQ:
On the contrary, Dana Smith.
Actually, there abundant evidence that HCQ, particularly if taken with zinc early in the course of viral infection, is very effective against COVID-19. HCQ is an antiviral, so it is effective in the early course of infection, before the viral infection gets well-established. It is not nearly as effective later.
Here is a small fraction of the supporting evidence for HCQ.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.02.20080036v1.full.pdf
https://www.medicineuncensored.com/
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/mumbai/toll-climbs-to-9-cops-on-hcqs-spared-the-worst/articleshow/75845670.cms
https://www.hospicepatients.org/hydroxychloroquine-a-cardiologist-s-view-louis-grenzer-md-baltimore-md-usa-05-16-2020.html
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1545C_dJWMIAgqeLEsfo2U8Kq5WprDuARXrJl6N1aDjY/preview
https://crstoday.com/articles/not-rated/hydroxychloroquine-for-the-treatment-and-prevention-of-covid-19/
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.27.20073379v1
https://aapsonline.org/aaps-letter-asking-gov-ducey-to-rescind-executive-order-concerning-hydroxychloroquine-in-covid-19/
The University of Virginia (UVA) “study”, reported by Politico and recycled here by Ms. Smith, is scientific trash. The “study” has not been published and I am virtually certain it will not survive peer review. (I have over 300 peer-reviewed publications and 63 patents—I know something about peer review.)
It is trash because: a) it did not use zinc, b) was retroactive (not a properly controlled study), c) was too small for proper statistics, d) was not randomized and e) was skewed toward more elderly and fragile patients.
Most critical of all, those who took HCQ in the UVA “study” were at death’s door anyway—in the very last stages of the illness. It is likely that nothing would have helped them.
Two questions everyone considering this HCQ issue for themselves and/or their loved ones should ask are these:
- “Am I against HCQ at least in part because Trump has “touted” it?”
- “If Obama had told me HCQ was safe and effective, would I have a different opinion?”
First of all the politics of HCQ is entirely 99.9% opposed. I have yet to find one political operative other than Trump on the positive side. I have no idea about the UK. The argument is being completely dominated by the opposition. No one here has any political influence. So your political argument is really a red herring. I have yet to see any media reports saying anything positive about HCQ. What I see are reports that invariably mention Trump recommending it and it is a dangerous drug.
As to your plan; you don’t have one. This site from the beginning has been devoted to realizing that big changes are coming and there is a need to prepare on every level of our lives. This virus is a Black Swan event which is exposing everyone.s level of preparedness and resilience.You have been on this site long enough to know all of this.
Your non plan is basically to do nothing. If you get it you will nor avail yourself of the one thing that we know from clinical results works if used with zinc and early. You will just stay home and hope for the best. Hope is not a plan. If it gets unbearable you will go to the hospital and avail yourself of whatever the medics offer. Well at this point in time all they can offer is palliative care and by then it will be too late for anything to do much good. All of that is your choice and I support your right to make it. But is not a plan.
It is time to get the politicians out of medicine and the doctors out of politics.
My post above #54 is an interview with a Dr, Irwin Redlener. The interview is a complete abomination. The interviewer even goes so far to mention that Trump’s doctor called him “morbidly obese” Now what that has to do with anything is clearly parked in the anti trump agenda.
That said I did a little research on ol Irwin. He is an interesting guy and very politically motivated. He got Trump in his crosshairs a few years ago. Irwin is a pediatrician and got his panties in a wad about the border situation and what was happening to the children. He wrote a bunch of articles against Trump back then. I am quite certain that he is capable of being objective when it comes to Trump NOT.
Here is a snippet from his wiki page. “Redlener is a special advisor to New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, with a focus on emergency management and planning to support and advise the administration’s citywide disaster preparedness and response efforts.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irwin_Redlener
Well I guess he has been in bed with Oxiris Barbot. In case anyone has missed it the worst place in the US for SC2 is NYC. He is responsible for advising the Mayor in this medical emergency. I wonder at the gross incompetence and his brass cojones to actually get on national tv and criticize Trump for promoting HCQ. He also said Trump was a hazard to peoples health not only for that but recommending people drink bleach.
This is the level of objectivity the lame stream media has gotten to.
Grover asked me the other day how we got here. I ran down a short list of lowlights which has brought us to the present state of affairs.
What I failed to mention is how the government has completely fucked up the health care system. Here is a brief rundown of the takeover of medicine in this country. It was completely different before 1910
https://mises.org/wire/how-government-regulations-made-healthcare-so-expensive
From CNN.com
Moderna stock then proceeded to fall over the next few days as scientists excoriated the company for not presenting the data to back up its promising vaccine progress claims. It's now back to the same price it was at previous to the announcement. A classic pump-and-dump? Maybe. Maybe not. But man, the optics on this are terrible...Moderna unveiled encouraging coronavirus vaccine results. Then top execs dumped nearly $30 million of stock
Moderna's stock price skyrocketed as much as 30% on Monday after the biotech company announced promising early results for its coronavirus vaccine. As ordinary investors piled in, two insiders were quietly heading for the exits.
Moderna's chief financial officer and chief medical officer executed options and sold nearly $30 million of shares combined on Monday and Tuesday, SEC filings reviewed by CNN Business show.
Adam:
I wouldn’t anguish a moment about whether or not this is a “pump and dump”. Of course it is. It is the simplest explanation that fits the facts (Occam’s Razor), and the reality of human greed. I hope they will be investigated and jailed…but that is not likely.
Apart from NY and NJ region, a very bad second wave is already building right across the USA. Take a look below-
https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2020/05/virus-second-wave-surging-across-us/