Roger, for better photo match you can use the building in the top right in the red box. In the photo its only 2 dirt strips, but it is a better match than using the barns in the east.
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Regarding the location of Crooks on the roof of Building 6, I’ve seen various distances reported relative to the east end of the roof. I believe that Chris noted it as about 35’ in one of his videos. In the video shot by Sky News that was taken by helicopter while Crooks’ body was still on the roof, I was able to count the number of metal roof panels from the east end of the building to the one where the body was lying. It was in the 20th panel from the eastern end of the building. I took still shots of various videos that showed the roof, including Spa Guy, Sky News as well as the body cam video of the police officers on the roof in the Chuck Grassley release. With that information and the drawings that I have created, it’s apparent that the metal panels are 2’ wide. I confirmed that as I counted 72 panels and the roof is 144’ long. Crooks’ body was about 39’ (middle of the 20th panel) from the east end of the building. Drawing a straight line from his position with the barrel over the ridge cap to Trumps position on the stage shows that the point where the bullet passed over the south wall of Building 6 to be about 54.5’ from the east end of the building. This position lines up about halfway between window 3 and the nearest vent.
I’ve also attached a shot of what I’ve been using for the stage and bleacher location relative to the barns and walkway. A .bmp would be better than this .jpg but I couldn’t upload it. Hope it helps.
Another question that I’d like to throw out there for everyone. In the video submitted in post 170 by troisdfx, another man in the top row of the same bleacher appears to be hit at the same moment as Copenhaver and Dutch are wounded, but he’s 25’-30’ away. He’s in a white shirt and a red hat. He goes down immediately, as if he’s been hit, but I haven’t heard if he actually was. Can anyone verify? If he was hit by a bullet aimed at Trump, the shot would appear to have come from the western end of the two-story building where the ESU counter snipers were (supposed to be) stationed. At least, that’s what my reverse trajectory drawing indicates.
In the picture I’ve attached, I’ve also circled the cloud of gray material caused by the bullet striking the bleacher. My guess is that the cloud is the layer of galvanizing disintegrating. Other ideas?
There is a video by John Cullen showing all of this and even analyzing the whole back row of people to the right of the man in the red hat; it does appear that a shot was fired along the back row from a direction other than where the shooter was.
I somehow come up with 43’? I took the very good picture from the new drone video. Please have a look?
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Roger-Knight,
Great picture to work with. I had one from the Spa Guy’s drone video that was even clearer, but unfortunately it didn’t capture the whole building in one shot. In your pic, I count the total number of roof panels at 72. You too? I’m pretty confident about my Google Earth measurement of 144’ compared to your 142.23’ (142’ 2 3/4"). Even if you went with your dimension of 142.23’ and divided it by 72, the panels would be 23.7" wide. That dimension of 142.23’ would be a pretty unusual “size” for that type of metal building, much more likely to be the 144’. Also, the metal roof panel widths are very precise. I’ve only installed one metal roof myself and it was only a year ago. Those panels were 16" wide and very precise dimensionally even with overlapping panels. I studied numerous sources to establish that Crooks was lying on the 20th panel. Even last night, I was watching our recording of Ronald Rowe doing the Secret Service’s press conference on August 2 on Fox News and in the background, they were showing a repeating aerial video of the AGR complex which showed a really good shot of the roof of Building 6. It was somewhat sad, but we could see one clean panel, the one the FBI had cleaned the trail of blood from, it was the 20th panel from the east end of the building. That panel also lines up with the downspout on the south side of the building that Chris has pointed out several times in establishing Crooks’ position on the roof.
Back to your dimension of 43.08’. At the point you’ve indicated on your picture of the roof, I count 24 panels. I don’t know how exactly you’ve measured that distance, but at 24 panels, 2’ wide each, the figure should be 48’, not 43’. Make sense? 20th panel, near side rib = 38’, far side rib of that panel = 40’. Crooks was lying in the middle of the panel, so I’m going with 39’, but 40’ would probably be more accurate since he was shooting right-handed, or so I presume.
Oh BTW, thanks for the heads up on the Google Earth “show elevation profile” tool. Thanks to Sluggo for that one too. Never heard of it before. Obviously one of those “old dogs, new tricks” sort of thing.
Oh, sorry, I sent you the wrong picture…. too many screenshots at this moment! However, I found 35.75 which I indicated in my post 157. Yes, I also count 72 total panels. Therefore, your number 39’ is correct. The difference between you and me is probably coming from the drone wide angle. But putting Crooks even further away at 39’ makes it even more difficult for him to make that first shot! Crooks exact position is of course very important when back tracing shots. Good job! I will update this new position in my model accordingly. Together we are strong!
Hi VT,
Yeah, I had trouble aligning the pictures, good tip! Of course using a square makes it much easier. I would however claim that there is only one position that matches, kind of a puzzle and only one position is correct. I will try aligning the two using your method and compare to see if I get the same result.
Something strange to mention: When I wanted to go back to Google Maps to get the same picture, they seemed to have deleted the dirt road? Am I doing something wrong? But when you go in satellite view on the desktop Google Maps, you get the below screenshot, however on my cell phone I still get the old picture? Maybe somebody is trying to cover up?
I have my own theory on this topic. The guy is looking towards right and sees all the commotion going on and preventively ducks, making the entire aluminium bleachers floor shake and shortly there after everybody moves, because they are losing their balance. I know John Cullen interpreted that action for everybody dogging a bullet and it sent him off to the woods… I think just like Chris told us; this is something for the red zone…
like I said, at Crooks position it is impossible for him to make that shot! Trump would have to be standing on the mic stand to have his right ear pierced. I once tried to rotate the rally picture in such a way, that Crooks could take that shot, but impossible, now with 39’ from the roof makes it even worse.
It’s really starting to get damming to the fact that there was only one shooter? What do you guys think? Still not convinced. I challenge anybody to show how Crooks took that first shot in the position he was in; I would like to see the receipts!
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It’s very difficult. The best way is to use references that are close to the object of interest. There is another small house in the top left corner also. There might be some software that would compensate the image distortion, but I don’t know.
Probably it’s a different time of the satellite picture. Look on Goggle Earth, there is a button: Show image history.
Other thing that I noticed is that the image change position when you activate the 3D buildings on Google Earth.
The solution would be topographer with a total GPS station on site to reconstruct with precision of less the 1/10th of an inch. That is a little costly but very precise.
Gary @ Paramount Tactical is talking about trying to get a surveyor to the location and get real numbers for the site.
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I would claim now we are looking for feet and not for inches, so the data at our disposal is sufficient. Once we can trace back the path to Crooks position within inches, maybe we will be needing more accurate data. With all our efforts here in this forum, the calculated data leads to building 6, shortly below the roof rim and in addition the horizontal position does not match up with Crooks position either. Please if anybody has a plausible back trace calculation that leads back to Crooks position, I would be happy to see it.
Hey VT,
Great info about Google Earth history. I clicked the history button and found our image. The history time in Google Earth shows 5/23, but looking at my screenshot timestamp, it was unchanged on July 23. That means between July 23 and today, Google covered up the important dirt roads that helps us so much orient the two pictures. Another incredible coincidence? I don’t think so…
The location of the red x in norwegian70’s graphic seems to me to be a good position to at least consider. If a shooter at that location used a lighter load, then the difference between supersonic crack “flight time” and actual report may have been pretty close together, and the trajectory might have been a little different.
The sight angle between these two elevations seems to be close.
Dear Chris,
Referring to your Video of today: “Audio Analysis Most Consistent Two Shooters At Trump Rally - Peak Prosperity” I watched with great pleasure. I would like to comment on two points:
First of all, you showed my post with the position of Crooks. Unfortunately, that was simply a wrong screenshot I put on there. schroederized could clarify the exact spot of Crooks right hand in post 193 It is at 39 feet. Maybe you want to show this corrected position in your next YouTube to avoid any confusion for any other independent investigators. Below is a self-explanatory Picture
2nd point: I would like to challenge DMonk’s drawing you showed on todays show. He starts at floor level of 1331 bottom of stair case and ads 2 feet stair case, indicating the building 6 is at 1333 feet altitude. Our team at “Site Reconstruction of the Assassination Attempt” here on Peak Prosperity has discussed this topic many times. We claim the building is at 1335 feet height. The problem with programs giving out heights like Google Maps and probably CalTop is that they always give you the highest point. For example, if you click beside the building, you get the floor height of the side of the building, however when you click on the roof, you get the height of the roof. But we want to know the height of floor level of the building. Clicking beside the property is not accurate. This is why we should work with topographical maps, which only shows floor levels, even if there is a building on it. Google Earth Pro (downloadable for free) supports this feature. I recommend everybody to sacrifice 10 Min to take a crash course on how to measure slops in Google Earth Pro. Here is a link:
So if you use this method with Google Earth Pro, you can draw a line through the entire building 6 and you can see exactly that the floor level of the building is at 1335 and not 1333. This is a big game change if the building is 2 feet higher! Some people claim that Google Earth Pro is not an accurate source, you need to import topographical maps in KML format if you want accurate data. Fortunately, from a friend who has access to this data I was able to get the KML of the Trump Rally in Butler 2024. I am sharing this file here:
So everybody can do the following:
- Install Google Earth Pro for free
- Watch the crash course how to measure slops in Google Earth Pro
- Download the KML file from Google drive in the link below and double click on the file. Google Earth should automatically launch, and the Trump rally boundary should be activated in red
- Measure the slop of building 6 with the method you lerned in the YouTube video
- If you do everything correctly you can see the below screenshot which indicate two important things: The stairs that DMonks start is at 1333 feet and not 1331, the height of the floor of building 6 is 1335.
Please pass this information on to DMonks. In addition, we would like to get in contact with DMonk so that we can compare our data. Or even better he joins our community at this Forum: “Site Reconstruction of the Assassination Attempt”
Together we are strong!
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Roger-Knight,
I feel compelled to correct something you stated recently in post 203. I did not say that Crooks’ right hand was 39’ from the east end of the roof. In our exchange yesterday, I was just pointing out that Crooks was lying on the 20th roofing panel and the center of that panel was 39’ from the east end of the roof.
Quoting from my post 193: “Crooks was lying in the middle of the panel, so I’m going with 39’, but 40’ would probably be more accurate since he was shooting right-handed, or so I presume.”
I was disappointed last night watching Chris display the CAD drawings of the bleachers. They weren’t representations of the Speedy Bleachers that were actually used at the rally. Instead, one of the “Big 8 Assumptions” indicated that specifications for Belson Standard bleachers were used. Why would one do that? If Chris’ staff would read the forum, they would see that the factory design drawing of the Speedy Bleachers was actually provided in post 114 on July 30. This is important information that could have (should have) been shared with DMonk.
Another one of the “Big Assumptions” that I have a problem with is the height of the stage. I too looked at video showing the Secret Service personnel standing by the stage in order to estimate the height and noted it was near the middle of their rib cage. At 6’ tall, that area is about 48". Now on that short little Secret Service lady that couldn’t holster her weapon, 40" might be around her shoulders and that would throw all dimensions off. The height of the stage, and therefore the height of Trump’s ear is critical to this investigation. Too bad that stage wasn’t part of the J6 investigation, we’d know every detail about it.
Note to DMonk, if you need a copy of the Speedy Bleachers drawing in .dwg format, I can provide that.
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Anyone have Knowledge of the correct inputs for modeling the ballistics?
I’m using this calculator:
Ballistic Calculator GunData.org
Achieved this results:
Considering this munition (5.56) weighting between 35g and 60g, I achieved a vertical drop of only 0.8 to 1.4 inches at 180 Yards where the 1th victim (David Dutch) was. The zero range considered is 153Yards (Trump Position). The initial velocity considered is 3200 ft/sec.
The horizontal wind drift is between 0.9 and 2.3 inches (at 180 Yards) for 7MPH (according to my wind estimation), considering also that it hit Trump at 153 yards with drift compensation between 1.4 and 4 inches.
Hey Roger, could you analyze this post i made and see if it matches your model?
This could help validate the elevations.
Hi schroederized,
Yes, I agree, at least Chris could have shown the drawing to us first and get our feedback. He might have his reasons. In any case it should not stop us from continuing our work. The drawing from DMonk could not debunk any of our data, but we were able to debunk a lot of his.
Since you are a professional CAD drawer, could you make a similar drawing like DMonk, showing all 3 positions (Crooks, Trump and bleachers) and the retraced bullet, but using our numbers? Below you can see my Excel table. For the stage height I am at 45” for the following reason. If you look at the 6 steps that lead up to the stage, the first one is a low step, but the last step is higher. When I ask Open AI the average height of 6 stairs it replies 45 inches.
You once asked me about the wooden blocks under the blisters. As you can see they put the end poles under pressure to stabilize by the means of a hydraulic jack. I don’t think the wheels are off the floor, but the long metal bars do have a certain elasticity. So, I am sure we are not too far away from reality if we add 4 inches to the height.
