Thanks, Sand_puppy. I don’t think it belongs here. I’ll post it as a Forum thread.
Laurie G
You make a good point.
I really want to believe in Bitcoin as the cat’s meow, but see several problems.
- the anticipated valuation is based on expectation that everything in the world will be valued in Bitcoin. But the bankers are creating new currencies that they will force us to put value on instead. How can one type of thing keep value when many others are created and that type of thing becomes outlawed or restricted?
- bitcoin is a direct threat to the new digital currencies. the bankers now control bitcoin with their derivatives market and futures trading.
- the bankers have a history of jacking valuation of alternative monetary systems and we are not in their club.
- as the bankers come out with their digital stuff they will want us to believe in and to use their digital stuff instead of bitcoin. already bitcoin is banned or restricted in 21 countries. I can easily see a scenerio wherein the bankers entice us to dump our savings into bitcoin and then crash bitcoin value at the exact time they trot out their alternatives, while forcing us to possess their alternative and to sell bitcoin in order to pay taxes in their alternative payment system under threat of police action.
On the other hand, bitcoin is perfectly safe if the bankers cannot control the price of bitcoin. To me this is the most important question: can the bankers jack bitcoin valuation using futures trading and other tricks, such as control of media? I would love to hear an answer to this question…
Thank You Adam. Very powerful story.
I feel blessed to have been led to RN school.
Even if my career has been challenging/exhausting.
Connecting with 1 patient at a time.
Sharing joys and sorrows.
Several years ago a patient sent a letter to my work place explaining how my helping her breast feed her fragile newborn in the NICU made her feel less overwhelmed and allowed her to bond with her baby. Brought tears to my eyes.
Waking up the critical 10% of the Human Race.
This is how we do it …Reconnecting each of us back to each other and source, 1 at a time.
Mots and Laurie, obviously no one can know the future. Strong and convincing arguments for BTC on both sides. That’s why I’m aiming for ~5% crypto in my portfolio. If BTC goes continuously up or at least remains stable, good for me. If it goes “poof” somehow, too bad, but I will have lost less than in '09 in the “market”. I always have the option to bail out at some point as well, either on the upside or down. Seems like a decent wager to me. Deploying liquid assests these days is certainly a tough call…Aloha, Steve.
ps- dang, didn’t mean to add to the crypto hijack of this “power of one” thread. Sorry…
Here is a reply
The earth is going to be hit by an asteroid. Everyone owning gold, owning guns and growing a garden will survive.
I’m convinced that the they of the cabal steak the stuff and force the pleebs to sacrifice the wha’cha mic’call’it into the digital gendarme stuff backed-up by men with guns and sexy haircuts. And the bakers will jack-up the kombucha markets with bicarbonate instruments and flagellant options.
Sorry about the technical language but I had to prove I’m an expert in digital asses.
Absolutely.
I am going to get hit by a bus crossing the street. I will avoid covid but the next engineered virus will get me. Oh wait I can’t talk right now my BTC , ETH, and Marijuana plants are being confiscated by the DEA, ATF, FBI, CIA, and DOJ. On no there is a man at my door with a badge saying son “we’re arrestin ya for litterin”
I’ll write more from the FEMA camp
There are many experts on Bitcoin here.
can someone answer: " can the bankers jack bitcoin valuation using futures trading and other tricks, such as control of media? "
they did it with gold.
If the answer is yes, then I point out that the rich get rich by taking from others, not by giving. I have no evidence that those who control love me like Jesus Christ. Prove me wrong.
Maybe Goldman Sachs is looking out for me like God almighty. See https://dealbook.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/goldman-chief-says-he-is-just-doing-gods-work/
I confess my ignorance. that is why I have questions. I really dont know. If the valuation is linked to real wealth and real wealth only, I would put all my eggs into the Bitcoin basket. So, give me a reason. Otherwise, I see much more value in investing in my own water and energy infrastructure, which give me a serious return of real wealth.
I prefer to discuss the broader issue of what the purpose of economics is. I thought that it was a tool to create wealth, by combining psychology with law, and facilitates wealth producing actions of human beings. Recently all this bitcoin chatter seems to evince a shared belief in either stealing from others or some other kind of free shit gamesmanship.
Wealth creation is the best path to a prosperous future, in my opinion. Thus I am sad that there is no discussion about a labor currency or labor cryptocurrency.
In the early days of Bitcoin, it was a free and open liberating thing. But I understand that the bankers took it over. I note that all good things that become valuable get co-opted by (deep state-or whatever name you want to use), like google, facebook, NY Times etc. Please explain how Bitcoin remains what it used to be after bankers got involved in futures trading and other tricks such as manipulation of media content. I understand that the same people who mostly control bitcoin intend to come out with their own competitive (whatever-coin), perhaps as early as January or the end of Winter. Do you really think that they will let bitcoin receive competitive funding after then?. Hopefully the answer to my question is “no.” Please explain and refrain from name calling and character assassination.
If the answer is yes, then I really dont see how you can enter a contest or game with the bankers on the other side of the game table. Good luck with that.
Thatchmo
I agree with you about having something like 5% of a saving portfolio in bitcoin.
Anyone building up a saving nest obviously should consider doing that. Same with gold in my opinion, despite its obvious manipulation by the elite bankers.
I have no criticism with that.
I have watched science research fads and also applied technology fads come and go as a patent attorney for more than 20 years now and believe that Bitcoin is merely the tip of an iceberg, and that many more crypto opportunities are coming along. All great breakthroughs in technology lead to progressively improved products. I look forward to a bitcoin like crypto that corresponds more faithfully with wealth and is more useful for a steady state (non-growing) society. The amount of token wealth a person possesses should have some relationship to his or her contribution to the community, which again leads me to a desire for dialogue about labor currencies and the real bills doctrine.
After the scientists and other developers release their new technology into public use, the same old gamers eventually adopt the technology and continue their same old games, with their new tools. Some people go a little further and reform their identity and persona around the newly discovered technology. Someone who is unusually passionate about one thing may not be entirely objective or clear headed about it.
I have engaged with you before on the subject of crypto.
Based on that interaction I doubt your sincerity in the questions. All of them have been addressed by me and others on numerous occasions.
Every question you could possibly ask has been answered in great detail by Andreas Antonopolous. I have posted many links in response to your questions. You will find him on Youtube.
Good Luck
While your post inspired me (thank you) one does not mock your very good question. My answer is “No”. Unless you are involved in Fx arbitrage you need not worry much about “price”. As has been quoted here, “price is an advertising mechanism for value” and value reflects un-resting changes in the three E’s (far as I can tell). Yes we live in a post behaviorist society making “feeling” unreliable and “thinking” inefficient and quiet “meditation” (or a good long walk, WITHOUT ear pods) mandatory to try and filter the data overload into some sort of recognizable pattern. (cheers to Chris and Adam for this helpful framework).
Lets put it this way, are you concerned with the take over of Hypertext Transfer Protocol by sovereign state entities or giant corporations? Has that stopped you from logging on to Peak Prosperity? (no). Will the Bitcoin (BTC) consensus network of 10,000+ nodes (nodes control the network) provide a framework for a multitude of applications for compensation the same way http does the same for communications. Anyone claiming to have a crystal ball is likely behind a curtain. (like Warren B. publicly dis’ing BTC to keep the “price” down while secretly accumulating BTC. The glory of BTC’s “open ledger” is that anyone an look at the transactions and discern that activity.
All that said, we are not talking about opening account at a custodial enterpise, though we may need to use one to purchase, sell or move cryptos, “IF YOU DON’T HAVE THE KEYS YOU DON’T HAVE THE COIN”. Search that phrase for due diligence.
BTC is the most useful way for converting any act of labor into a value on the a blockchain, ie. Chris and Adam could have a prosperity coin or token (etherium or pockadot or cardano) and compensate us for the time and effort “labor” we exercise hear. OR they could just let us earn Basic Attention Tokens (BAT). Y’all should be using Brave browser with a MetaMask crypto wallet connected. (my two cents, nay, satoshi)
Does this make sense?
BTW http will become a sub-stack on the BTC network sooner than anyone thinks possible, ie BTC will “eat” the internet.
Look at a chart of BTC prices . Look at the steepness of the slope of the upward curve presently. How much longer do you think the price will continue to rise in such a manner? Look at all the enthusiasm being drummed up for it in the financial media and online. When I see such frothy things, I sit back and wait. I don’t let FOMO make my decisions for me. That’s never a good idea.
It’s highly probable that there will be a significant drop in the near future followed by a dead cat bounce followed by a further drop, and then a consolidation period followed by a resumption of a climb upward to new higher highs. If I buy some for my portfolio, I’ll wait until it drops below 12,000 and then, put perhaps 2-3% of my portfolio into it. And I’d trade in it rather than invest in it.
Had an interesting conversation with someone more knowledgeable about trading activities than myself. He talked about an individual he knew who has had made quite a bit of money trading BTC. This individual works in conjunction with compatriots of the same ethnicity. They wait for one of these drops, buy in, and then make the rounds of the various forums, generating enthusiasm for BTC. Of course, due to human herd instincts, the true believers chime in as well, adding to the conviction of their pumping statements. When it hits their price point, they sell and go back and, under different names, make the same rounds of these various forums sowing doubt and mistrust about BTC. This time, those who got burned chime in, now adding to the conviction of the dumping sentiments. They’ve done this for a number of cycles with great success. That revelation didn’t surprise me.
When someone ridicules others for not making investments, be wary. I’ve seen that psychological ploy used for everything from time shares to questionable securities. Remember that ridicule is one of the tools favored by Saul Alinsky since it is so difficult to counter. Also remember that Satoshi is a Pokeman character. 
First, I’d personally rather these conversations take place elsewhere, rather than hijack unrelated posts. However, at a certain point I end up feeling pressed to respond.
Your hypothesis is not correct, ao. We are neither at FOMO blow-off heights, nor are there dramatic quantities of mass media mention of BTC and FOMO.
Image 1: “No media hype” of BTC in current run.
Image 2: “We are here” comparison of this BTC bull run, as of 2 days ago, vs. previous two run-ups.
The financial media that I’m reading online seems to be mentioning BTC left and right with increasing emphasis (or at least suggestion) that it should be considered as a possible addition to anyone’s portfolio who can afford the risk. Although this comment doesn’t specifically say that, just Ray Dalio making this kind of statement is akin to a tacit form of approval coming from such a pundit:
Ray Dalio Says He ‘Might Be Missing Something’ About Bitcoin
Ray Dalio said Tuesday that he might be missing something about Bitcoin as the cryptocurrency passed $17,000 for the first time in almost three years.
Bloomberg
Nov 20
Yes
Your argument is completely irrelevant.
It is irrelevant due to the fact that you will never own, trade or invest in BTC.
It is irrelevant because it is an assertion with nothing to back it up. It is purely your belief system functioning as a strawman.
Your story is absurd. There are millions of wallets. I am supposed to believe that a small group of people control a $300+ billion market cap by posting blue sky and then FUD?
Okay I do have an investment opportunity for you. It is not and bright and shiny as it once was and not as many people will be using it because of the virus but tha Brooklyn Bridge is an absolute steal at the moment. H
Hey have a great Thanksgiving keep healing. Despite all the doom and gloom here we do have a lot to be thankful for
FWIW, my “no hype” chart is from Bloomberg. And, sure, the financial media is increasing its mention - it would be hard for them to not, given the increasing number of mainstream big names and institutions getting into BTC. As I noted in the forum post “5 Minutes on the Institutional Adoption of BTC,” the head guy for Coinbase’s institutional services side observed (in the video I posted there) that after Paypal’s announcement of buying BTC he had 5 major institutions reach out to him before 9:30 a.m. wanting to invest $100 million each. Business MSM has to notice that. But that’s still segmented. The general public is not seeing much; Google analytics is not picking up much retail interest (measured by searching terms); and several on-chain analysts have opined the data (primarily, size of buys and pattern) indicates that any current FOMO is on the part of corporations, hedge funds, institutional custodians, high net worth individuals, and family offices, not retail investors, so far (distinctly unlike 2017, which was the reverse in almost every way).
The chart you point to on Coinbase is only in the mid-$18,000s. It looks dramatic when you track it back to the 2017 blow-off top, but the most recent low was around $3400. Put the Coinbase chart on 1 yr, and you see the rise from $3800 to the current $18,600. That 4-fold rise likely seems like a lot of growth this year in relation to how PMs and the equities market work, but it’s not yet dramatic in BTC terms; rather, it’s in keeping with the second chart I posted, “We are here,” which is organized around the 4-year cycles from halving to halving, which is how the cycle works. (The last blow-off was in the middle of the last cycle, as this next high will be in the middle of this cycle.)
$18-19,000 is very early days. We’re only 6 months into this 4 year cycle. The real growth won’t start until we top the last cycle’s high, at $20,000. That’s how this works. This run-up still has 12-18 months ahead of it before it corrects - if it follows the two previous cycles - and will hit near or a bit over $100,000 (say, $85,000-$115,000) over the next 18 months, then dip back to the $40-60,000 range for the next low prior to the next halving.
However, given the big money interest this time around, it might run up somewhat higher than past rounds, and might not dip back down as far. Big money competes at higher valuations, and institutional money helps even out volatility (because institutions are in for the long hold, unlike retailers who panic easily and are anyhow more inclined to quickly claim profits).
Also, I don’t think Ray Dalio is turning bullish, but that’s a matter of interpretation. That he even hinted at being teachable now can be seen as turning ever so slightly bullish, with potentially more bullishness to come. But as I read his full statement I thought it akin to saying, “BTC is too volatile for a store of value, and too lacking in any other use case; change my mind.”
You probably missed this but you just might find it interesting. I posted this in the forums.
Robert breedlove wrote an open letter to Ray Dalio.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i0N9qj4gjmg
VT Gothic, you seem to support my assertion about online enthusiasm for BTC rather than refute it. As for the price, time will tell. I’m printing out your comment so I have it for reference and we’ll see what happens in the next 12-18 months. I hope you do well with it.
Mohammed, your argument about my argument being completely irrelevant is, ironically, an assertion with nothing to back it up. Study the history of the US stock market back in the 1800s and early 1900s and see how a small handful of connivers or even a single individual, through social multiplier influence, could create the exact effect that I describe. I’m surprised you don’t seem to comprehend or at least admit to the full power and magnitude of viral influences.
I appreciate you providing the above video but could only take so much of someone reading notes that sounded like a college student reading information they extracted from Wikipedia. I’m afraid I’ll pass on watching the entire presentation. So many of these proponents seem to have enthusiasm and knowledge (albeit a bit circumscribed) but also seem to be lacking a certain depth of experience and level of sagacity and wisdom that I like to see in someone before following their advice. That’s just my gut impression … nothing I can quantify or measure but sometimes the abdominal brain trumps the cortical brain in accurately assessing a situation.
Appreciate the Thanksgiving wishes and the same to you. I am doing much, much better and part of that healing is the regular practice of deep and sincere gratitude and taking action in accordance with that attitude that is respectful of the human body being the temple of the Holy Spirit and a precious gift from God.
I would like to add my similar sentiment to that of AO.
Thank you, I have learned a lot. I wish you guys the best and I really expect you to get rich or at least do very well with Bitcoin. In this context, if you have the funds to travel to country with 50x lower covid rate, vibrant economy with low unemployment and where the people really welcome foreigners, please be my guest at my resort. I invested in farmland, tools and time and the results have exceeded my expectations, including the unexpected realization that I can make a campground/hostel/nightclub/resort adjacent to a pristine sandy beach. I buy an olive tree, take care of it for a few years and then the thing starts giving me dividends of about 10 pounds of olives a year or more. I am more comfortable with that and prefer the challenges of creating real wealth directly. Thus although I do not have a ticket to ride the Bitcoin train, I am happy in other ways with investments that seem to pay off better than expected.
I dont have funds to dabble in bitcoin mostly because I mostly withdrew (pun intended) from the banking system when such was discussed many years ago in this hallowed forum. It is a moot point for me since I have so little to invest anyway, nowadays but I am very skittish about investment schemes. As mentioned before I tried to buy bitcoin a few years ago but was very turned off by having to give copies of my passport and drivers license to unknown strangers. And at that time I was told that it cost 20$ to execute a bitcoin transaction. Now, Max Keiser is publicaly calling people stupid because they did not buy bit coin a few months ago and make tons of money unlike so and so who took his advice. Such discourse really turns me off. On the other hand, your more reasoned approach is welcome. We have so much to learn from each other.
I am investing in energy production and can send circuit boards for connecting solar panels directly to common household appliances or even completed circuits to you if you become interested to get into my wealth game.