you assumed the unvaccinated worker was the first one with covid and gave it to the vaccinated people. It is possible that it was not the case. Before you go and accuse someone of spreading covid have you done contact tracing on that person? What if that person has a serious condition making it not recommended that they be vaccinated? You are now online dragging someone through the mud with zero facts besides knowing they had covid.
if you live an interesting life odds are highly likely that decisions you make have an impact on other people’s lives. If you were going to donate blood and decided not to are you responsible for what happens to a stranger if they run out? Let’s ban cigarettes because of second hand smoke. Heck let’s just bad cars all together because people die in accident, right? If you want to control my right to have a vaccine for the common good, can the government now ban abortion for the common good? Birth rate in this country is dangerously low. Is it only my body, my choice when you agree? Can we compel other medical treatment for the common good? Where does it end?
You know Les,
You made your decision it sounds like, so you don’t get to reverse that. We all hope it doesn’t turn out the way Dr Bossche is saying, but if it does, do you want to be known as one of the many who sold a lemon from the used car lot to those seeking answers? Misery loves company. Go join the conversation at the MSM to confirm your biases.
In a situation similar to yours, my 88 year old mom is in an assisted living facility with well over a 100 residents. They were all doing great - zero infections or issues all throughout the pandemic, up until the point when they got their first injections about 2 months ago. Bang! Within two weeks there was an outbreak. Immediate strict quarantine and harsh restrictions. Within a month, 27 were infected and 2 dead, on in their 90’s and one in their 70’s, both with preexisting heath issues (which ties in exactly with what Julius Ruechel said in his extensive investigative report).
So was it ADE? or was it ‘someone’ - staff, caregivers or guests unwittingly infecting others? We will never know. But why is it that they were managing just fine with zero infections and people coming and going all the time, and then they all get vaxxed and bam, there is an outbreak? Most of the infected were asymptomatic with little illness, except for the two fatalities. This seems to support the Dr. VB hypothesis of evolutionary pressure on the virus.
Do you think it is possible this happened in the situation you speak of? That a resident was an unwitting asymptomatic spreader, and the cause of the outbreak. That is what I think happened at my mom’s facility. They were told the 70 year old died of double pneumonia. I would bet that if they were to look his lungs would have found to be massively damaged by the spike proteins and blood clotting. I would bet the vax killed him, or put another way, that he would still be alive if he had not been injected.
I concur with Mysterymet - you made assumptions without any data to back them up. It seem to me that your assumptions are based on your ingrained belief system, which appears to be that people who are not vaxxed are a danger to others. Please consider that there is a strong possibility that the reverse is true, and that new variants are being created because of the vaccinated, who are now putting everyone, both the vaxxed and unvaxxed in danger.
I have a loved one in assisted living. All 90+ residents chose to be vaccinated, but one health care worker chose not to be vaccinated. The worker caught covid. When the residents were tested, eight residents and one other employee tested positive, but were asymptomatic. Never the less, the facility went into quarantine for over a month and the asymptomatic worker missed work for two weeks.Yes, that's unfortunate. I had to go through something similar. It was annoying for sure. But you are conflating the efficacy of the shot with the policy of the nursing home. If the policy had been: "anyone testing positive is immediately shot on sight, right along with all their close contacts", then (I'm guessing) you'd be really unhappy about how the unvaxxed fellow got all these people at the home killed - not taking into account that the nursing home might have had an absurdly restrictive policy. A critical point: this shot is non-sterilizing. You can still get infected, even with the shot. So if that worker had been vaxxed, and then tested positive, and the same series of events had unfolded - how would you feel about the outcome?
westtxmom - I immediately thought of this article I saw months ago. This was from Australia Dec 2020.
Or maybe it’s that “odd” furin cleavage site on SARS-COV2
“The vaccine contained small fragments of an HIV protein, which helped stabilize the vaccine. Some of the participants developed antibodies against these fragments, and these antibodies triggered false positive results on some HIV tests.
It’s important to note that there is no way for the vaccine to cause an HIV infection, because it contains harmless fragments of the virus.
Trial participants had been informed that they might generate some antibodies to this portion of the vaccine, “but it was unexpected that the levels [of antibodies] induced would interfere with certain HIV tests,” the CSL statement said.”
https://www.livescience.com/australia-covid-19-vaccine-false-positive-hiv-tests.html
I assumed Peak Prosperity was an open minded forum. Please forgive my ignorance.
https://meaninginhistory.blogspot.com/2021/06/political-scariants.html
Watch the embedded 2.5 minute video!
…Just yesterday Fauci was saying that this variant is "the greatest threat to the United States’ effort to eradicate COVID-19 in its borders". Who thinks eradicating a respiratory virus within our borders is a realistic goal? Would that be the same people who want to open our borders to the rest of the world? Is the goal a globalist vaccine, and boosters until that happens? Could we discuss this--from a scientific point of view?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtOu7jx3snQ
I remember reading that and thought, “wow, that’s interesting”. On a somewhat tangential note, I looked for current vaccine trials regarding immunocompromised people at clinicaltrials dot gov and found a couple. One of them, trial i.d. NCT04844489 (est. completion date is July 2023), has as its summary: “Prospective, multicenter, non-comparative cohort study of immunocompromised people vaccinated against Covid-19 with the aim to know the humoral and cellular response to BNT162b2 [Pfizer-BNT] vaccination against SARS-CoV-2 variants. This study will enroll patients in 5 parallel sub-cohorts of the same size, distinct according to the source of the immunosuppression: autoimmune or auto-inflammatory disease, HIV infection, multiple sclerosis, solid cancer, organ transplantation with prospective data collection and constitution of biological collections” [bold added]. The other similar (ongoing) trial has i.d. NCT04805125.
So, should I rush to the ice cream parlor for a free lick or (be vaccine-hesitant and) wait two to three years to see who the last person(s) standing happens to be? It’s all a personal decision, IMO.
“You pays your money and you takes your chance” ~ unknown, but probably from a smart, English language aficionado, and blackjack expert.
I see this all the time… those trapped in the MSM induced worldview accuse truth seekers as not having enough, “balance”, or not being, “open minded”. Just as Jan pointed out that Bossche is among the most Pro-Vax scientists you will find, many of us are in fact open-minded or we never would have gotten around to forming our own opinions, outside of the mainstream.
I think Evoutionary Biologist Bret Weinstein put it best a few weeks ago in trying to describe how it is that good, smart people, including scientists and MD’s, continue to “see” the world the way the mainstream media and our government projects it to be, specifically in terms of Covid-19 therapeutics vs Vax. He took the concept behind animorphic art, and suggested that these folks are trapped in an animorphic argument.
If we put ourselves in their shoes, where they have only seen the arguments against the efficacy of therapeutics like HCQ and IVM, force multiplied by a captured media, with the alternative data (like Chris interview here) being censored, you can start to understand where they are. As Sandpuppy has confirmed to us, the entirety of the healthcare machinery is captured in this same animorphic position. You go against it, you will get your ass fired (witness Simone Gold, MD, JD who lost her job as an emergency room physician for the sin of prescribing HCQ). At the same time, once you comprehend the efficacy of IVM, seeing everything as it truly is becomes easy… and you cannot “unsee” it.
I have put 100’s and 100’s of hours into my own effort to understand what is true… reading papers, triangulating data, following trails. Many here have done the same. My conclusion? I would not try to talk an 80-year old with co-moribidities out of taking the shot… the risk vs reward is likely in their favor. For almost anyone else, I would point them to therapeutics and supplements. The idea of vaxing our kids and young adults? Criminal, and I will fight against it with every fiber of my being, including calling out people here (like Travis) who waffle on this particular subject. Line in the sand.
So, am I open minded? Have I approached this with an open mind? Can I start with an open mind, spend 100’s of hours doing research, come to the conclusion that my kids lives are at stake, and now be called, “closed minded”. Fuck that.
Les-
What’s your definition of open-minded?
If they were all vaccinated and asymptotic why quarantine? Send the sick worker home and go on with life. You do realize the worker probably got Covid from one of the asymptotic vaccinated care home residents.
IMO vaccinating the elderly in care homes makes perfect sense. Vaccinating kids is stupid. And frankly if the party line was, here is an option and you have to do what is best for you, I would have no issues with vaccines.
I’m not sure what information you even claim to be looking for. I’ve been watching this unfold for a year and honestly even the pro establishment types (Dr. Campbell, Dr. Mobeen, Dr. Seheult) have all either raised a few eyebrows or gone pretty quiet. You probably aren’t going to find what you are looking for at PP in part because we have been mulling over this for a year but we might be able to point you in the right direction.
UK NHS publication dated 6/18 shows death HR=6.6x for vaxed vs. unvaxed cases
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/994839/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_16.pdf
See table 4.
Compare columns unvaccinated vs. fully vaccinated (“≥14 days post dose 2”).
First row is cases, last row is deaths. Divide deaths/cases for vaxed & unvaxed groups.
Results:
Unvaccinated: 34 deaths / 35521 cases = 0.095%
Vaccinated: 26 deaths / 4087 cases = 0.64%
HR (Hazard Ratio): 0.64/0.095 = 6.6
I don’t have the expertise or the software to calculate the p-value, but someone out there should be able to do this quite easily given these raw #s.
I suppose it is likely that the # of cases as a % of the total vaccinated population is much lower than in the unvaccinated population, but regardless, the above data is cause for concern.
Exploring that thought further, we can make some very rough guesses, if we make the broad assumption that the virus is exposing vaccinated and unvaccinated populations at the same rate. If two-thirds of the UK population is indeed fully vaccinated, then the death risk from the delta variant is 26 for 2/3rds and 34 for the remaining third, so the HR for vaxed-to-unvaxed is 0.38 – which means that vaccination provides some benefit. However, given the cost and risks, the benefit is measly – it’s roughly the same as taking vitamin D, gargling with salt water, or any number of very cheap, simple, non-risky things.
But, this is the situation now. If an escape variant comes along, then there will be an entirely different risk-benefit ratio. Or, if the vaccine causes 50% higher risk in 20 years, that’s also an entirely different matter. Or reproductive toxicity. Or…
some people believe that being open minded means their opinion coming from your mouth.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/994839/Variants_of_Concern_VOC_Technical_Briefing_16.pdf
See table 4.
Compare columns unvaccinated vs. fully vaccinated + 14 days.
First row is cases, last row is deaths. Divide deaths/cases for vaxed & unvaxed groups.
Results:
Unvaccinated: 34 deaths / 35521 cases = 0.095%
Vaccinated: 26 deaths / 4087 cases = 0.64%
HR (Hazard Ratio): 0.64/0.095 = 6.6
I don’t have the expertise or the software to calculate the p-value, but someone out there should be able to do this quite easily given these raw #s.
I suppose it is possible that the # of cases as a % of the vaccinated population is much lower than in the unvaccinated population, but the above data is still cause for concern.
Exploring that thought further, we can make some rough estimates, if we make the broad assumption that the virus is exposing vaccinated and unvaccinated populations at the same rate. If two-thirds of the UK population is indeed fully vaccinated, then the death risk from the delta variant is 26 for 2/3rds and 34 for the remaining third, so the HR for vaxed-to-unvaxed is 0.38 – which means that vaccination provides some benefit. However, given the cost and risks, the benefit is measly – it’s roughly the same as taking vitamin D, gargling with salt water, or any number of very cheap, simple, non-risky things.
But, this is the situation now. If an escape variant comes along, then there will be an entirely different risk-benefit ratio. Or, if the vaccine causes 50% cancer higher risk in 20 years, that’s also an entirely different matter. Or reproductive toxicity. Or…
Kathy, you said: IMO vaccinating the elderly in care homes makes perfect sense.
I don’t agree. Too many elderly die after C19 vaccinations. IVM for scabies outbreaks seems anecdotally to be very effective for C19.
I assumed Peak Prosperity was an open minded forum. Please forgive my ignorance.Now that is a cop out statement if I ever saw one.... is that your way of ending a discussion that you are uncomfortable with? Please let us know what you consider open-minded, and also who do you want Chris to interview? You must have had someone you were thinking about to have made the suggestion. If not, once again, I fail to understand why it is up to Chris or the tribe to identify who that prospective person might be. I think it is safe to say we all really, really want and pray that Dr. VB erred in his hypothesis. It would be most excellent if you could bring forth a properly credentialed person who can provide a solid scientific counter-hypothesis. Here is the kicker though - that is on you to provide. That is the part you are either not understanding, or willfully ignoring. You stated in one of your posts you have not put a lot of research into this. I have. Like Jim and many others here I have spent hundreds and hundreds of hours trying to educate myself on what, for me, is a life and death decision. I do not take that lightly. I will continue to do so until I am able to make a good decision about my health and well being, both near and long term. I hedge my bets in the interim by adhering to a strong phrophylactic program. Because I have read & learned so much, listened to and weighed the opinions of all the wonderful wise contributors here, I am confident of my personal decisions - which according to the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, the United Nations Declaration of Human Rights, and the Nuremburg Code, are mine to make. You also said that it seems that the most rigid and vocal are the unvaccinated. Might that be because we are feeling highly threatened?!? All of our rights are under heavy assault. There is a threat of the loss of bodily sovereignty, of personal freedoms to do what we want, go where we please, loss of job and careers, loss of a viable economy, as well as the loss of freedom of speech. So ya, we are feeling a tad antsy... Please forgive our ignorance!
Hello everyone,
This is my virgin post in PP and just want to say HI.
I am from Singapore and have been following Chris and his COVID coverage since March2020.
Although [safe/effective]vaccines are a good response to the Pandemic, it is also imperative to have good therapeutics for those suffering from COVID-19[asymptomatic/mild or otherwise]. From the data about Ivermectin, Fluvoxamine, Zinc, Melatonin, Vitamin C, Vitamin D, Hydroxychloroquine etc it seem to be effective in either prophylaxis or treatment of COVID-19.
Therefore it saddens me when I see this official treatment guideline from Singapore’s National Centre For Infectious Diseases. Yellow highlights are made be me.
SINGAPORE National Centre For Infectious Diseaes - Treatment Guidelines for COVID-19 v6.0_Final 2021.06.14
Especially galling is when there is sufficent data for Ivermectin efficacy in COVID-19 prophylaxis and treatment. I am beginning to wonder if this is a giant conspiracy to cull humanity as we live in a finite resource world.