Audio Analysis Is Most Consistent Two Shooters At Trump Rally

[kincses-zsolt]

@kincses-zsolt

We can also use Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) for small time slices. There are interesting questions, how to choose those time window slieces.

And again, there is a raster problem.

I faced the palm of reality and struggle with this issue. Teachers didn’t tell me something important.

(The multiple lines mean different phases of the tested sinusoidal signal.)

The problem is here, when the time of period is not an exact multiple of other’s.

Something remains, since it is not cancelled.
This happens, when someone learns from simplified textbooks.

And just one more subtle thing. FFT calculates only the sine part, as I know. Here I calculated both sine and cosine, and added their sqares.

[kincses-zsolt]

The cerebellum, one of three main parts that make up your brain, is responsible for coordinating movement and balance. Also known as the “little brain,” it plays a vital role in language and attention and can assist people with vision and eye movement.

[flamecensor]

I watch John Cullen often, & he told me in August to listen to unreported gunshots in Dave Stewart’s July video.
Do 3 extra shots between the ‘3’ & the ‘5’ sound like table tennis shots? (Another investigator named ‘Gray’ said he thought they were a ‘bug zapper’)

3 gunshots + ping pong serve+return+smash

[redranamber]

Those are the sounds of Dave Stewart trying to get to cover or get down. If you watch the video instead of just listen to the audio you see as the first three shots go off, he starts moving more rapidly and erratically, as one does when bullets start flying.

Trump Rally - Butler, PA. 07/13/24. Extended Cut

[sonjax6]

@kincses-zsolt

It looks like a wound.

I stand corrected on that one - I’ve never seen that screen grab before. I can’t imagine how that doesn’t show up in the other screen grab though.

@kincses-zsolt

Someone who is lying in bed is longer than when stands up.

Yes, but the difference shown is 2.5 cm, or exactly one inch, which is the about same difference in height one will have when measured in the morning vs in the evening. It’s not nearly enough to account for a short guy (5’ 8’') that’s either 25 pounds overweight or heavily muscled vs. a tall skinny guy.

If I remember right, my 6’4’’ brother weighed about 165 pounds in his college days when he was so skinny you could count his ribs, but that’s considered an ideal weight for a guy who’s about 6’ 0". It’s possible the coroner just screwed up when writing down the weight. Hopefully someone will get any photos they took.

I wouldn’t be surprised if all that exist are diagrams and drawings, a la JFK.

[sonjax6]

@kincses-zsolt

It looks like a wound.

Where does this screen grab come from? I’ve never seen that before.

It looks like the wound shown is either right about in the middle (left-right-wise) or actually to left side of his back, while the autopsy says the re-entrance wound and both re-exit wounds are on the right side.

It also appears that they have actually put a BANDAGE on the wound.

I just can’t reconcile that picture with the one where his shirt looks pristine. It would have to have been take first, since the cuffs aren’t on him yet…

[sonjax6]

It just occurred to me: point F - the JUGULAR vein was hit. Think of how much blood should have been SPURTING out.

This guy’s clothes should have been drenched with blood. There should have been blood well beyond the little lane he was lying in.

Chris Martenson has mentioned before that if this guy was hit was a .308 winmag there should have been a pretty good size splatter zone. This whole thing just kind of stinks.

[redranamber]

Collins’ cam shows what I perceive as a hole/rip/tear in his shirt around the same area when they flip him over, and yes it does appear to be more to the left than anything, which is odd. I’m not 100% sure that this is where this screenshot comes from, though the angle appears to be about the same, and if you watch the bodycam footage this is before he gets handcuffed. It’s hard to tell with certainty that what I’m seeing is indeed a tear in his shirt or merely artifacts of video quality, but seeing it appear across several frames as they flip him makes me think it may really be there. Though I don’t know how to reconcile it being the opposite side of what’s reported in the autopsy…

[kincses-zsolt]

@redranamber

a hole/rip/tear in his shirt

[flamecensor]

I think it was a hard drive failure warning from Dave’s Iphone.
Ironically, the failure warning was during the 2 seconds between Crooks’ 3 shot & 5 shot ‘volleys’(irony#2, another ping pong term).
Iphone ‘hard drive failure imminent’ warning sound

[frankh]

AI breakthrough - need to reach Chris ChatGPT - Epilogos

[kincses-zsolt]

Minimum & maximum.

[greg_n]

@phiphi-the-frenchie

Here is the message I just sent on Greg Nichols’ Youtube site, with whom I have been in a lot of dialogue over the last two months.
…

I get such a perfect convergence that I was surprised myself at (586728, 4523410) or 16 m north of Trump’s position. It seems incredible but the convergence is so good and independent of unknown data that I think it is the right solution. It is so close to the podium microphone that it explains the very loud sound that you took for a Crack when it is a Boom that saturates the recording.

Finally I reincorporated Podium in the simulation but it takes a time difference of 10.013 s between shots 9 and 10 to have the convergence at the same point, that is to say a Boom time of 16.016 s.

I used the same method for shot 9 and I have a very good convergence at (586754, 4523422)
…

Hello @phiphi-the-frenchie , I think there must be some mistakes in your analysis because the locations you arrive at for shots 9 & 10 are not plausible.

You place Shot 9 just northwest of a light pole, but we know from Butler Twp. police bodycam that no SWAT officer was located there at the time of Shot 9 or 10.

Instead, the officer for shot 9 was located where I have “9” marked on the first image, above.

The place you indicate for shot 10, 16 m north of Trump, is located in the middle of the crowd. It is not conceivable that a SWAT officer would have been standing there.

[sherlock-holmes]

Hi Greg,
We need to explore make the case were there was 2 shooters.
The only 2nd shooter logical location is window 3 (as window 4 was closed during the shots), which is only 25ft further away from the podium.

Could you do a combined or 2 mappings where the 3rd window is origin for shots 1-3 & origin shots 4-8 is Crooks with muzzle at the ridge cap. ( were not concerned with shots 9 & 10 in this scenario)

Using trumps podium mike as the master sound track and shot 4 report less time for the sound to arrive as the zero point in time. From this point we can calculate & arrive at a ‘master time line’ for both crack and reports for shots 1-8.

This ‘master time line’ could represent either;
A) 3rd window is origin for shots 1-3 & origin shots 4-8 is Crooks with muzzle at the ridge cap.
B) Crooks is origin for shots 1-3 muzzle 2ft over the ridge cap & origin shots 4-8 is Crooks with muzzle at the ridge cap.

I have noticed a very strong agreement in timings of shots 4-8 for all sources, however crack & reports for shots 1-3, and time interval between 3 & 4 are all over the place. So only this part requires closer scrutiny.

There is a issue with the chain of custody with many of the sources.
For each of the other sources, it would not take long or much adjustment to alter/slide the sound track timings to point towards Crooks location. (crack & reports for shots 1-3, and time interval between 3 & 4)

Alternatively for each of the other sources, It would not take long or much adjustment to alter/slide the sound track timings to point towards the 3rd window location. (crack & reports for shots 1-3, and time interval between 3 & 4)
What would these timing adjustments values be?

I recall you posting that you massaged some of the values to get a better plot crossing alignments?

So instead of working towards 1 shooter result, work towards a 2 shooter outcome.

I noticed below that you were able to group shots 1-3 outside window 3, so with so refinement they may be even closer.

What I have not been able to obtain; is a xls table showing the crack & report timings used (indicating calculated or transcribed from wave forms) for all used sources for all 8 shots, for any of the analyses posted by anyone in the 3 or 4 studies posted on PP.

The Cruiser sound track should not be used, could the source tracks closer to the stage be picking up the broadcast sound from the speakers and not original?

Could the sound evidence point to a 2nd shooter from the third window or is this impossible? (i.e. like they were on top of the cell towers) I know this may take some time, but your all set up, experienced, and ironed out all the bugs.

[phiphi-the-frenchie]

Hi Greg
There was 16 s between the first and the last shot so an Hawkeye member would have had plenty of time to go from his post to a good place to shoot at Crooks.
If there is an error in my simulation, please help me to find it by doing it yourself using the sources I have used and reporting the boom times from the audio files without any calculation. The only hypothesis I made is considering that shot 1 came from Crooks location.
It’s strange to have a so perfect convergence. Did you look at the graph I have joined some days ago?

[phiphi-the-frenchie]

Is there an interview of the Hercules 1 team located on the roof of South Barn?

[brian60221]

Not a public video one, but we have some transcripts, I think. You can find them here. hsgac-interim-report

[kincses-zsolt]

@sherlock-holmes

For each of the other sources, it would not take long or much adjustment to alter/slide the sound track timings to

That’s correct statement. Since the speed of the sound is big and varies with air pressure and temperature. So that a little modification in audio records (intentionally or due to inperfect recording systems) can result calculation inaccuracy.

Speed of sound

In Earth’s atmosphere, the speed of sound varies greatly from about 295 m/s (1,060 km/h; 660 mph) at high altitudes to about 355 m/s (1,280 km/h; 790 mph) at high temperatures.

[phiphi-the-frenchie]

Thank you

I have found that which seems incredible. The committee ask questions to the CS guy that didn’t shoot: (it’s on page 148)
Question: Have you since received confirmation that (his partner) hit Crooks?
Answer: I’ve been told that (his partner) hit him. I don’t know if that’s true. I don’t know – I didn’t see it so I can’t tell you if that’s true or not. I trust (his partner) is a good shot, though, so I would imagine that’s true.

Incredible, isn’t it? The guy can’t confirm that his partner has hit Crooks. They didn’t speak after!
And the committee didn’t asked questions to his partner …

[greg_n]

@sherlock-holmes

Hi Greg,
We need to explore make the case were there was 2 shooters.

In my mind, that case was closed last month. Please refer back to the posts here in this topic from 24 to 30 September. Three independent citizen investigators, all looking at gunshot timing data, came to the conclusion that shots 1-8 were fired from the same location. Look at posts by @offtheback @vt1 and @greg_n such as:
ref1
ref2
ref3

The only 2nd shooter logical location is window 3 (as window 4 was closed during the shots), which is only 25ft further away from the podium.

The speed of sound is 1.2 feet per millisecond. So, for one of the shots to be “off” by 25 ft there would have to be a timing shift of 21 ms. I’m confident that I was able to discern gunshot timestamps to within 1 ms of accuracy, so there is no way the data was off by 21 ms.

Could you do a combined or 2 mappings where the 3rd window is origin for shots 1-3 & origin shots 4-8 is Crooks with muzzle at the ridge cap. (we’re not concerned with shots 9 & 10 in this scenario)

Only one thing can be chosen as “ground truth”, so both of those initial conditions can’t be made true. Whether shot 1 or shot 4 is chosen as ground truth doesn’t matter - all 8 shots resolve to the same location.

There is a issue with the chain of custody with many of the sources.
For each of the other sources, it would not take long or much adjustment to alter/slide the sound track timings to point towards Crooks location. (crack & reports for shots 1-3, and time interval between 3 & 4)

All seven of the data sources have provided consistent results that agree with each other. Therefore, I have not seen any evidence that they had been tampered with - except, of course, for the remarkable similarity between cruiser waveform shapes. However, if there was something altered with the cruiser audio, what could possibly have been accomplished by that?

Alternatively for each of the other sources, It would not take long or much adjustment to alter/slide the sound track timings to point towards the 3rd window location. (crack & reports for shots 1-3, and time interval between 3 & 4)
What would these timing adjustments values be?

The timing values would all have to be tweaked by several ms to accomplish moving the gunshots by over 20 feet. I’m not inclined to work out the math myself as it seems like a waste of time.

I recall you posting that you massaged some of the values to get a better plot crossing alignments?

Since DJStew and TMX were moving during the gunshots, I have experimented with different movement paths for them. I have not experimented with tweaking the gunshot timing values. To reduce uncertainty, I now place more trust in the results from the recorders that were stationary.

So instead of working towards 1 shooter result, work towards a 2 shooter outcome.

There is no way for me to do that.

What I have not been able to obtain; is a xls table showing the crack & report timings used (indicating calculated or transcribed from wave forms) for all used sources for all 8 shots, for any of the analyses posted by anyone in the 3 or 4 studies posted on PP.

Okay. I added a new tab to the “Audio Timestamps v4” spreadsheet available at File Browser
The tab is called “Booms” and it has the time-aligned boom values that I use for plotting the TDOA hyperbolas.

The Cruiser sound track should not be used,

Why not? Are you merely suspicious, or have you actually found something in the timing of the gunshots that has been tweaked to throw us off?

could the source tracks closer to the stage be picking up the broadcast sound from the speakers and not original?

Yes. Those recordings pick up both direct gunshots and the delayed versions through the speakers. So, that needs to be kept in mind when analyzing the audio data.

Could the sound evidence point to a 2nd shooter from the third window or is this impossible? (i.e. like they were on top of the cell towers) I know this may take some time, but your all set up, experienced, and ironed out all the bugs.

If the gunshot timestamp evidence had pointed to more than one shooter, we would have been happy to break the news on that. However, no solid evidence points in that direction, only speculation and wishful thinking. Sorry.