Hi howdoiknowthisinfo,
Please find below the three screenshots which are self-explanatory.
If you want it even more accurate, I can go ahead using the provided curve and go into the sub feet levels? Should I do that?
Apparently a congressional committee has released information stating that Butler SWAT officer fired a shot (Iâm assuming this is shot #9) that struck Crooksâ gun either preventing or at least slowing his ability to carry on shooting. Reported on Pittsburgh local news.
âThat shot was about 100 yards away and it hit Crooksâ rifle stock and it fragmented in to his face, neck, and right shoulder area from the stock breaking up. Crooks went down but recovered after a few seconds and popped back up.â
I am still troubled by the location of shot 10. Some say it was from the south red barn (Hercules 1). The early TDOA analysis by greg_n suggested shot 10 came from just north of the audience. And other sources, including Trump himself, say the kill shot was from a much farther distance (from a covert secret counter sniper location), I think they were saying either 400 or 450 YARDS away from Crooks.
The snick-boom time analyses suffer from unknowns including the muzzle velocity of the rounds, the bullet weight and diameter which affects air resistance and magnitude of slowing, and the amount by which each shot missed the microphone.
TDOA theoretically should give a more accurate, more valid location provided there are enough microphones of known position. TDOA only depends on the speed of sound, the location of microphones, and the location of at least one of the sounds.
Could the kill shot have been from 450 yards and have been suppressed to the degree that it made no sound and shows up on zero microphones?
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If we look at this video it seems like the tenth shot is loud.
Iâm still uneasy about the tenth shot, but if it was fired by the southern snipers and hit Crooks in the mouth and went out the back of his neck, that could explain why he was relatively intact.
yes, because you completely miss the pointâŠ
when I set the path measurements unit to meters, the elevation panel shows the end point of, e.g., Trumpâs ear at 410m:
when you use whole ft as the reference, you have a granularity of 30cm
when one would use whole meters as the reference you get a granularity of 100cm
this results in a 3.333 factor difference, which is huge.
as I explained yesterday, 1334.501 is rounded up to 1335 ft and 1335.499 ft is rounded down to 1335 ft, but there is a difference of 30cm between these two boundsâŠ
that could lead to Trumpâs ear being 30cm higher or lower than where you assume it is in your model, and the same goes for the shooterâs height and the corner of the bleachersâ heightâŠ
a vertical inaccuracy of 30cm is really huge in these mattersâŠ
e.g., if the height value of the corner of the bleacher that you use has been rounded up and the height value of Trumpâs ear has been rounded down, that could represent 60cm vertical difference and that will result in a totally different backtraced location!
btw: could you provide me with the angle of that blue line in relation to the front of building 6?
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yes, I have heard these entry-exit points previously, that is a very plausible option, but we still do not know or have seen any bullet impacts behind him.
the Spa Guy checked the roofs behind the location where the body was photographed and he could not find any bullet holes
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Hi howdoiknowthisinfo,
We have to imagine how this bleacher is installed by looking at the YouTube video. When setting the bleachers in the correct position the wheels are at 1336. The height of the bullet impact is 10.854 feet according to the drawing.
Now they start to stabilize the bleachers and level it out by putting wooden riser blocks on the floor and cranking the jacks. We have taken the most conservative value of a height increase of 1 Inch assuming they start stabilizing this corner first and then cranking the other corners to level it out. Haven taken the most conservate value makes our simulation more difficult to debunk. Keep in mind, when leveling out the bleachers there is only one direction, that is up. Pushing the corner higher would put the retraced bullet even further away from crooks making even a bigger offset than 6 feet.
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if you use rounded ft as the reference, that could still represent 1335.501 ft or 1336.499, he⊠still 30cm vertical margin of errorâŠ
OK, I will take the time and calculate it for you⊠
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thanks.
normally, you could simply read that value from what you see in your modelâŠ
what I am trying to do is recreate a kml based on the values you mention in your overview starting from a single point of reference (the location where you put the man on the roof of building 6) and derive all the other points from that point of reference in 3d space, and in order to be able to align things correctly, I need that angleâŠ
There is no hard evidence of Trumpâs ear injury.
Michael Yon (war photographer) also thinks it was kayfabe.
49:00
If it is assumed that Trumpâs ear was not touched by a bullet, there are many more possible snipers nests.
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yes, that is why I am taking every vent, window, door and roof with line of sight to Trumpâs podium into consideration in the calculations I am doing now with various calibers and muzzle velocities such that we can simply identify from data what may be further considered rather than guessing without dataâŠ
but also note that if shots were fired from within a building, the sound would not propagate to the different locations where we have seen recordings from so far:
- the microphone in front of Trump is the best reference as it is steady and professional equipment
- the recordings from body cams
- the position of RealDjStew is at the other side of the building compared to the location of the witnesses near the trees
unless there were recordings of gunshots that were played instead of real shots from outside the buildings, the different witnesses and audio recordings would not have heard the same
so, from my point of view, shots were fired from outside or on top of the buildings
Why are you so sure about that?
if you shoot from within a room through a window, the only direction from which that sound will be heard will have the shape of a cone or a pyramid (depending on the type of window, door, opening in the wall through which the shots are fired)
only if supersonic ammunition is used with a muzzle that is fired in the open air (the gunman may be inside a building/construction and the muzzle sticking out) the sound (letâs not take the echos of this sound into consideration immediately as this would make it much more complex) will be heard at a wider angle than the cone/pyramid determined by the opening through which is shotâŠ
(source: Exploring Sound Wave Diffraction around Edges - Home Recording Pro)
(source: Diffraction)
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Even if the muzzle would protrude slightly?
if the muzzle would be even with the wall, you would have a 180 degree sound propagation, but still not to the back of the shooter.
we see here that the people at the trees and the people at the parking of the AGR buildings recorded the same gunshots and the buildings are in between these witnesses.
from my perspective, that means that the shots cannot have come from the front of building 6, as these people on the parking and under the trees were standing behind the front of that building.
they could have heard echos of shots coming from the front of that building, but this would imply that their recordings have different timings/delays between the shots
this page shows a couple of interesting and relevant examples: Diffraction of Sound
when shooting in the open, the picture shows that the sound propagates in a circle with the shooter in the center (left hand side of the picture):
and when the sound source is heard through a door or opening (right side of the picture above), it is heard along the outside of the wall, but not âfrom behind/sidesâ, when assuming this is the front of a buildingâŠ
gun shots are high pitch tones, and their waves are similar to those of the piccolo in this picture:
(source: Model of diffraction of sound - fikopremier)
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There is a lot in your comments to respond to. I will do it in small comments. First I upgraded my drawing based on this series of topos.
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I only showed the differences at meter level, heâŠ
if you go to my kml file you will find a folder called âhorizontal planesâ where you can blacken out the areas at centimeter level, which is much more precise than at foot level or meter levelâŠ
I have Crooks at 39â from the end of the building and the tip of his rifle at 40â8". That seems we are in close agreement
Trumps stage I have at 41" high. I see 6 risers in a photo, so 6 x7" risers (commercial code) is 42". So I could have made it 1" higher.
I assume 1337, 1336 are elevations at grade and 1335 is the firs floor of AGR 6. Well knowing the wheel elevation is above my pay grade (I working for free). I have the base of the stage 4ft higher than the floor level of AGR 6. So we differ by 2 ft. right? But I have the stage shorter than you guys I believe (48" right?).
The more important relationship is the AGR 6 ridge to top of stage Trump is standing on. That I have at 8â-7". The net result is that trumps ear is 2â-7" below the ridge or 2â-9" below Crooks gun tip.
Hey @greg_n. If itâs not much to ask, is it possible to test various locations at once and plot the medium error of the distances of the other shoots from the point of interest? And the result would be like a grid of values or color map.
The answer could go against my beliefs but it is an important question.
The area of interest should include possible 2nd shooter positions discussed in this thread. Like this area.
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