So It's Back To First Principles

[bigtim]

Let me try to summarize your images. Assuming they are correct sea level elevations:

• 2 Story AGR #7 north building. 417 meters
• 1 Story AGR #6 south building roof where Crooks was found. 412 meters.
• Trump’s ear: 412 meters
• Victims in the SE most top corner of stands: 412 meters.
• Hydraulic line: 412 meters.

The heights all line up satisfactorily and the trajectory windage all lines up as well. From the north 2 story, there’s a 5 meter (2%) downward trajectory, all of which can reasonably be explained by rifle distancing zero, bullet type/weight/caliber, etc.

The audio time is problematic but may be explained by better understanding of variable inputs.

Otherwise, I think this is a very plausible location. As I’ve stated for a week or more now, it offers the professional excellent vantage of rally, Trump on stage, Crooks getting into position, law enforcement, and a 360 degree view. He could have hid up there in a white Tyvex suit for hours, there’s two short walls facing the north and east to conceal him. Excellent escape route off the back while everyone is occupied with Crooks. Same rifle trajectories. Would explain the different rifle reports and echos. And this position is shielded from view from all 4 counter sniper teams by trees, obstacles, and the team in the AGR is facing the wrong way.

Great work!

If you watch the source video where this still picture comes from, you might see a head pop up between the air vents. I suspect this is the professional assassin. It appears in the boosted cop video as well, different location/angle.

[howdoiknowthisinfo (howdoiknowthisinfo.com)]

I am not a believer in the vent hypothesis…

shooting from a confined space is something which is not easy to muffle.

it looks like that I cannot upload a zip file.

feel free to download the current snapshot from https://www.howdoiknowthisinfo.com/butler/snapshots/snapshot_current.zip

allow me to vent something (no pun intended

the ones (more precisely, the many) that have been gaslighting me the past week should realize that they were and are wrong and should look in the mirror to find out who is.

one of the problems is the over reliance on a model that is inherently broken beyond repair.

my two cents.

now I am going asleep.
it is 7.56 am and I have to go to work in a couple of hours.

[daniloraf]

@howdoiknowthisinfo

I do realize that the text and the pins can overlap and be kind of overloading the image

Oh for sure. Thanks for the upload. I’ll have to check this whole Belgian trajectory tomorrow also.

[sgt-raven]

@howdoiknowthisinfo

as there is consensus that two guns have been used,

No there is not a consensus at all. It is just one of many hypothesis.

@howdoiknowthisinfo

should realize that they were and are wrong and should look in the mirror to find out who is.

Once again, you show your arrogance knows no bounds.

[roger-knight]

I was waiting for somebody to raise this issue, because I don’t always want to be the guy to suggest potential conspiracy theories, but I have to admit that I also have the strong feeling that these videos have gone through a lot of photoshop. For those people who do not know, Steward was immediately arrested and released the same day, but they kept his phone for 3 or 4 days giving ample time to edit his video.

I watched Stewards video at least 10 times frame by frame and shorty before the shooting and shortly after the shooting when things get really really interesting, either the camara blurs out or some strange gray color appears at the most interesting places, at the most interesting time, especially the vents. I recommend everybody to watch 10 seconds before and 10 seconds after the shooting screen by screen. You can do that with Microsoft Clipchamp setting the speed 0.1 and double-clicking on the play button. The 5 frames back button is also extremely helpful. Below just a few findings of potential photoshop. Judge for yourself or go look at the video frame by frame.

I did however see suspicious activity coming out of the windows that maybe the photo shopper missed out on? I recommend everybody who has not seen my post (177 in the site reconstruction forum) to take a look:

@roger-knight

referring to my previous post 176, I made a screen-to-screen analysis of the video from @realDJStew724.

Also on the police body cam you can see the same. Here the photo shopper was lazy and just covered up the entire wall with paint. So you can see the corrugated iron wall magically vanishes covering up the most interesting part of this video.

And just one thing, needless to answer this post by saying that the camara is moving and that the video can distort… of course everybody agrees to that, but the fact that only the most interesting parts are coved up goes beyond standard distortion.

[roger-knight]

Hi Kwaka,
I took the time to rotate the elements to be aligned as you indicated and surprisingly (or maybe, not surprisingly) the left bleachers upper left corner would have been in the way of the trajectory…

[roger-knight]

Not being a gun guy, I am asking all gun and military specialists in this forum: What is this and when do you use it? The reason I ask, is because when searching by image the below picture, Google suggested this image.

[howdoiknowthisinfo (howdoiknowthisinfo.com)]

realDjStew’s video is one of the 5 videos on which allegedly military drones have been seen flying at about eye level where you put your horizontal red arrow in the last picture.

it might indeed well be that his videos have been cleaned up and enhanced with things that did not happen…

about:

@roger-knight

Not being a gun guy

yes, that is very clear…

btw: I am still awaiting the speed of sound you have been using in the sound analysis.
the information I provided to you a couple of hours ago can easily be extended with the times of flight and the delays of the sound arriving at a certain location, but I would need to get the same speed of sound as you are using to avoid nonsensical dismissing comments from your part

[howdoiknowthisinfo (howdoiknowthisinfo.com)]

@bigtim

He could have hid up there in a white Tyvex suit for hours, there’s two short walls facing the north and east to conceal him. Excellent escape route off the back while everyone is occupied with Crooks. Same rifle trajectories. Would explain the different rifle reports and echos. And this position is shielded from view from all 4 counter sniper teams by trees, obstacles, and the team in the AGR is facing the wrong way

these are exactly the points I have raised and “the powers that be” ignore these completely…

@bigtim

Let me try to summarize your images. Assuming they are correct sea level elevations:

• 2 Story AGR #7 north building. 417 meters
• 1 Story AGR #6 south building roof where Crooks was found. 412 meters.
• Trump’s ear: 412 meters
• Victims in the SE most top corner of stands: 412 meters.
• Hydraulic line: 412 meters.

The heights all line up satisfactorily and the trajectory windage all lines up as well. From the north 2 story, there’s a 5 meter (2%) downward trajectory, all of which can reasonably be explained by rifle distancing zero, bullet type/weight/caliber, etc.

exactly right, and even if the sea level would be slightly off, it will still be consistently “slightly off” on the various points in this small area, he…

@bigtim

The audio time is problematic but may be explained by better understanding of variable inputs.

whether the audio time is problematic is not yet so certain… I have been asking for the speed of sound that was used for the sound analysis and roger, who just confirmed that he has no clue whatsoever about guns, keeps ignoring this simple request…

I can easily add the times of flight at different velocities in my analysis tool and adding the times the sound travels is easy to do too, but as long as he does not provide authoritative information about this aspect, he hinders the any transparency…

I really wonder why a guy who confirms he is no gun guy whatsoever is in charge of a bullet trajectory analysis project…

when I pointed out that the relevant end points for these trajectory analyses are the proven bullet holes and the assumed muzzle positions, he bullshitted around claiming that the metal of the bleachers railing would have deflected the bullet trajectory significantly, but he does not provide any references whatsoever.

now I know why: he does not even know the bare basics…

I enumerated a couple of my credentials in one of my first posts, and I stay in my lane, which cannot be said about many…

anyway, thanks for having taken the time to check out the posts I made!

[vegaspatriot]

Well, if anyone is in the ceiling crawl space assassin camp, it seems the photoshopped is letting you know where that location is.

[kwaka]

The theory by Mike Adams of Natural News in how the three rounds where much further away than the other five is wrong. He suggested the rifle was in a side mounted position to lower the overall profile for the first three shots, this would cause the empty shell castings to be thrown up instead of too the right, and so go much further away.

It is clear that suspect started with the rifle in a standard mounted position, throwing all he empty castings to the right. If he did actually fire any shots?

[howdoiknowthisinfo (howdoiknowthisinfo.com)]

@roger-knight

the left bleachers upper left corner

hello roger,

you seem to assume that a bullet travels in a straight line trajectory, which is not the case.
the straight line of sight is the lower boundary of the bullet’s trajectory and the range at which the weapon has been zeroed determines approximately where the bullet drops below this line of sight…

[bigtim]

Your image of a man in a helmet shows:

1. Kevlar helmet, bullet resistance up to small caliber rifle rounds.
2. Electronic ear protection and talk/listen radio with mic.
3. Metal helmet bracket mount for mounting various optics that can fold up and away. Generally, as in this case, a type of infra-red night vision type optic. This is in the stowed-up position, and would be folded down over one eye for night vision abilities. There are other versions with two optics for both eyes.
4. Some various side brackets on helmet are common for mounting things like lights, cameras, IR strobes (so you can identify friendlies at night in IR optics so you don’t shoot them, drop bombs on them, can ID them from afar, etc.), etc.

These devices are all now very common in US military and law enforcement tactical units.

Images of them deployed in use demonstrated:

[bigtim]

@howdoiknowthisinfo

you seem to assume that a bullet travels in a straight line trajectory, which is not the case.
the straight line of sight is the lower boundary of the bullet’s trajectory and the range at which the weapon has been zeroed determines approximately where the bullet drops below this line of sight…

Thank you for reminding people, as I have tried to do.

THIS is something folks are missing with trajectories when drawing a laser-like straight line from point of shooter to point of impact. Bullets do not work that way.

With a 5.56mm (and most others) there will be a variance between the optic and the barrel, generally a couple inches, that must be accounted for when “zeroing” a rifle at different ranges. There will also be a slight bullet “arc” or a slight rise and then a dip which continues until it strikes something. This is “elevation.” There can and generally is ALSO be a lateral “windage” or side-to-side movement based on wind. For extremely long shots, professionals even factor the rotation of the earth in their calculations! The key takeaway is bullets are not lasers. The drift up and down, side to side as well.

For those that don’t know this, all other variables equal, an unimpeded bullet fired exactly parallel to the earth, will fall and land on the ground at the exact rate as a dropped bullet at the same time from the same height. IOW they will land on the ground at the same time. So remember that when trying to determine trajectory. Gravity is always at play.

In this case, we don’t know at what bullet type and weight nor do we know range the rifle(s) were zeroed, or where their points of aim were. The bullet that struck Trump, might have been aimed for his chest or throat and been a bad zero, or a bad aim, etc. We just don’t know. Further, there was a eastern wind of 5 to 7 mph.

ShootersCalculator.com

In input some best guesses and other data and came up with, if using 55 grain .223 and a zero of 100 yards, with known elevation (415 meters), wind speed 7mph, temps, and other data or best guesses as estimates:

At 150 yards, the bullet drops 1 inch and drifts 2.2 inches.
At 300 yards, the bullet drops 13.6 inches and drifts 3.1 inches. In this case, from west to east.

So, Crooks would need to adjust his zero or accommodate for range: 25 yards, 100 yards, 150 yards (hence the range finder may have aided him in adjusting zero). Same with the potential shooter on the N. rooftop. There are adjustments on the rifle or optic to allow a shooter to adjust to known distances. But we know and can calculate within reason how much drift and drop those bullets experienced.

[howdoiknowthisinfo (howdoiknowthisinfo.com)]

@bigtim

For those that don’t know

yes, what i find very striking is that several of the most active critics and deniers of what we say on this forum have no shooting experience at all (for example roger and brian confirm this in their own posts).

how is it possible that the project leader of a project for trajectory and ballistics analysis does not even have the most basic knowledge of ballistics, rejects very viable options based on prejudice, bias and cognitive dissonance and makes such bold statements without any references or relevant qualifications?

the answer is, from my point of view, very simple: the attack on Trump has been carefully orchestrated and made possible by undermining the skills and expertise of the people he should be able to trust blindly.

well, here we see the same thing: Chris is a trustworthy person and has a very solid core team supporting him, but the second layer of his people is infiltrated by purely incompetent bullies with no good intentions!

and when i point this out, i am the one who is labeled arrogant…

so be it

[pk2019]

You know, geography is destiny. I suggest to tone down the discurs a bit. Not everyone has the same interests or knowledge base. roger-knight is certainly not a project leader here, but has constructed his own model. There were others, like schroederized and, I believe, sloggo2u who build their own models, like you. When an adminstrator crudely closed the geometry thread, opened another one and soon closed that new thread again, I heard nothing more form schroederized at least. sloggo2u had a very interesting LIDAR dataset and then said, that the google earth elevation data are partly wrong (or very imprecise), for example at the south-eastern edge of building 6. Whoever had invested much time, effort and due diligance does certainly not want hear he wasn’t an expert or even be labeled as an “denier”, with well known connotations. That said, at least I do not know which one of the two contradicting hypotheses is correct. And there are more than just these two.

[howdoiknowthisinfo (howdoiknowthisinfo.com)]

hello pk2019,

as you must have noticed by now, I am not the one who charges or bullies.

the sword cuts on both sides.

my model does not use the ground levels as reference as these vary so much, but the top of the various buildings, as these are mostly (or at least more) even and “more” horizontal than the ground levels.

the very uneven ground surface is what does roger-knight’s system/model in, and he does not want to hear that…
these are just observations.

I go for transparency and openness, which is why I have provided my kml snapshot to everybody who wants to have a look at.
if they do, that is fine, if they do not, that is a pity and lost opportunity for them…
as far as I am concerned, I am not married to any of these systems and will update whatever is necessary as soon as there is corroborated evidence to support the change.
so far, this is what makes most sense based on the many things I have analyzed so far…

I use google earth pro and the coordinates/height/elevation of the walls and roof of agr building 6 have changed indeed, but that is not problematic for my model

thanks for your feedback!

[bigtim]

@howdoiknowthisinfo

I have been asking for the speed of sound that was used for the sound analysis

I have seen 1150 fps number thrown around as a good estimate. Wikipedia says 1125 fps or 343 m/s.

[vegaspatriot]

This post has one of the more detailed SoS calculations I’ve seen here.

Audio Analysis Is Most Consistent Two Shooters At Trump Rally

THERE WAS A 2nd SHOOTER Based on the timing of the “sonic boom” and report of 1st shot at Trump’s mic — time difference 0.22 secs — the muzzle of the gun had to be 417’ ± a few feet from Trump. That does NOT get you to where Crooks was. It gets you EXACTLY to the front edge of that building. Given that the 1st floor windows were too low to shoot line of sight to Trump, and those windows seem to have been “cleared” by law enforcement — the DJ video shows that — I think 2nd shooter was in the ce…