I’m on the same track as you. Check out my substack post
I focus on the strange things that happen with the middle window of building six (with a lot of screenshots from the Stewart video), but also discuss the height of the first bullet during hypothetical trajectory from the top of one of those windows to the top of Mr. Trump’s ear to the top of the bleachers, taking into account Google Earth’s altitudes.
After many hours of hard work, I was able to upgrade my simulation. I was very careful to synchronize the Google Maps top view with the Trump rally footprint which gave me a very good basis. All heights in the Y axis are confirmed thanks to the many good feedbacks I got from this community. Thank you! I will keep this version official for the moment until somebody comes up with compelling arguments to change the vertex parameter. One thing is sure with this simulation: the first three shots come from building Number 6. I am fully open to share all my data, don’t hesitate to ask….
Incredible! We are all on the same path at the same time. And we are all finding the same results! See my POST 125 further down.
This height was estimated in my simulation using photos, which is of course not so accurate. This drawing is a good finding. Congratulations! Looking at my CAD system I measure 11 feet. I considered that the impact point is a bit lower according to this Video (see post 84).
Another thing I could find is they also used wooden riser blocks as per photo below. I estimate the thickness to be 4 Inches. So, the total height of the impact point is 11.33? Does everybody agree?
Another difference between you and me is the height we found in Google Earth.
I had: Trump 1337, Bleacher 1335 and AGR 1335
You have Trump at 1338, Bleacher 1338 and AGR 1337
I agree with your AGR 1337 because I took the lowest point, but looking at some photos we do see that towards the wall the building is risen. So, for me I’m OK with your heights.
Does everybody agree on these new heights:
Impact point bleacher: 11.33
Trump at 1338, Bleacher 1338 and AGR 1337
After getting the approval from our community I will update my vertex parameters and backtrace the bullet again and see where we are now….
Nice catch bro… and it seems somebody has patched the patch?
Have a look at YouTube video:
" Aerial Investigation: Drone Footage of Trump Assassination Attempt Site in Butler"
As much as I would love to believe that’s possible (because I was pretty confident the real shooter was inside one of these ground floor windows…. Unfortunately it’s not possible for there to be any sort of “crawl space” - or more accurately called ‘attic space’ where you are referencing above these windows.
This low pitch roof does not allow for any space there “above the ceiling” for anyone to get in there. The height of the windows compared to the deck of the roof there at the Eve or end of the building is clear there is no room for anyone to be shooting out of that alleged hole.
Interesting find, but unfortunately it’s most likely an artifact of the camera footage. Keep digging though.
from the inside of building 6, you can see a drop ceiling for the area where your patch would be next to that window. That drop ceiling (also sometimes referred to as a “lay-in tile ceiling” is about 8 feet above the finished floor. The tops of the windows are at the same height as the tops of the door frames (which is 6’-8")
So from where your red circle is drawn on the outside of the building, that would be just about where the drop ceiling height is - and as you can imagine - there would be no one on or above the drop ceiling (and neither would they have room there above the drop ceiling in the 8 inches of space under the roof deck.
If it’s a hole in the wall, they would have to be in this main area standing on some sort of table with an incredibly small opening to try and look through or sight in their rifle (extremely doubtful)
from this photo, you can see that the other windows have an isolated room /s, but again, until we find a busted / repaired window or glass fragments, I don’t know how that would be possible short of some magic self healing glass that can not only repair cracks on it’s own, but complete replace or fill in bullet holes - and as I said before, the “self healing glass” that someone mentioned earlier is only capable of repairing cracks under certain conditions, not holes or entire missing pieces of a blown out widow.
Thought I should include this here as well.
Made an error in my screenshot below. I ended the red line from ground level at the line (9.98ft) It should have ended at 10.3ft to better show the bullet passing lower than the top of Trump’s head.
Fixed version.
Using the drawing of the bleacher I have come up with some dimensions.
Overall height 11 feet.
Top row seat height 87.75 inches (7.31ft)
Top row foot well height 70.00 inches (5.83ft)
Bullet strike height 131.5 inches (10.95ft)
Abdominal strike to victim if standing on seat 44.3 (3.69ft) inches above seat height (Dependent on distance from rail, probably a bit higher due to downward trajectory of bullet)
Abdominal strike to victim if standing on foot well 62.26 (5.2) above foot well height (I’d guess he was standing on the seat or this strike would be higher on the body)
Ground elevations at 4 corners of bleachers using DSM derived from LiDAR data of site.
NW 1334.9
NE 1335.8
SE 1335.1
SW 1334.8
Indicates wood blocks are to level the bleacher, so 1335.8 would be lowest elevation to use to calculate bleacher’s overall height above ground. 1335.8 + 11 =1346.8ft.
That puts the bullet strike on the rail of the bleacher at 1346.3ft.
Ground elevation at Trump 1336.7
Estimate stage at 4ft brings level to 1340.7
Add Trump’s Height 6.3ft brings level to 1347 (10.3ft above ground) at top of head.
Subtract 4 inches (.25ft) to ear level 1346.75ft
Roof elevation behind peak where shooter’s body was located 1350.2ft.
Estimate shooter’s profile above peak at 1.5ft 1351.7
Draw line from shooter at 1351.7 to bullet impact on bleacher at 1346.3 and the bullet passes center stage at 1347.08ft or 9.98ft above ground (3.75 inches from top of head)
The cross section below illustrates the trajectory from shooter (right edge) to impact on bleacher (left edge) and the red line representing Trump’s location along path.
Take note the the building is on a grade that is lower then the surrounding topography by about 5 feet. I can only post 1 image per post so I’ll add a screenshot below.
Not trying to discount anyone’s research, just sharing my observations using the resources available to me.
Thank you for all your good feedback! We are getting more and more accurate thanks to this community. I have taken into consideration all the new factors we have gathered and entered the new vertex parameters and back traced the bullet. Surprisingly though the trace got closer to the patch rather than to the shooter on the roof. At this point I would like to challenge anybody to prove that this simulation is not accurate. If you have any proof that some number can’t be correct, I will gladly change the vertex parameters and backtrace the bullet again. I am fully transparent to share any documents that backs up my numbers. I am also willing to give you a SW, IGES or STEP file of this model if somebody wants to import it into their CAD system. I am your disposal……
Hi Roger, do you have Trump standing dead center of the stage? i could be wrong but it looks like Trump should be a bit closer to the front of the stage. See this video with two timestamps that should help giving a precise location of Trump’s head:
Second timestamp is at t=433 to see where Trump’s head is relative to the microphone.
checking in gimp it looks like the back of his head would be around 55% from the back of the stage, but that’s just a rough guess.
Thanks for your feedback. I was looking for a good side view and this helps a lot. Good job! One thing that should be mentioned is that the centre of the cylinder representing Trump is taken from his ear. I did that because it is easier from a drawing point of view. So, if you want to image the body it would be closer to the mic. Another factor is that he is looking back to the screen putting the ear more to the back. I might take the time and simulate his body and his ear, so that there are less confusions. Another thing to consider is when the secret service jumped on him, they moved the mic. So, I would even have the tendency to move the point more towards the back, which would put the impact point even closer to the patch. Looking at the below screenshot from the top view and comparing with the video, I think we can leave the position the way it is?
while I am drawing the head of Trump, something came to my mind which was called out by John Cullen very early into the investigations (credit to him) Trump is looking back to the screen. Therefore, the ear is protected by the cheek. Assuming we have huge position error with the corner of the blister (which we of course don’t have), the shooter from the roof can’t hit Trumps ear without damaging the cheek. It is of course difficult to determine the exact angle of Trumps head, but I just drew a dotted line towards the corner of the screen. This is just some information I wanted to share…
I think his head should be moved so that its right next to the outline of the podium. Maybe even slightly overlapping it. This angle from the video looks very close to what his position was when the first show clipped his ear.
And this is the view of him right as the first shot clips his ear from the RSBN video. His head is turned almost perfectly parallel with the podium.
I checked the pixels of the podium’s position on your picture of the blister and it is correct. It matches with the side video. But Trump’s head should be closer like i mentioned above.
So people can check, I measured the blister in the side video as 1024 pixels, and the edge of the podium as being 598 pixels from the back of the blister. In your overhead shot, the podium is 327 pixels, and the podium is 188 pixels from the back. Give or take a couple pixels for each measurement.
I have used a google API to get approximate ground elevations. (Note: I may delete the map in a few days). Here is the link that show the points I sampled and their elevation according to Google. Also, here is the raw output from the google API…
{
“results” :
[
{
“elevation” : 407.0099487304688,
“location” :
{
“lat” : 40.85808,
“lng” : -79.97056000000001
},
“resolution” : 2.385987997055054
},
{
“elevation” : 407.6414184570312,
“location” :
{
“lat” : 40.85794,
“lng” : -79.97068
},
“resolution” : 2.385987997055054
},
{
“elevation” : 407.8505859375,
“location” :
{
“lat” : 40.85787,
“lng” : -79.97074000000001
},
“resolution” : 2.385987997055054
},
{
“elevation” : 408.0685119628906,
“location” :
{
“lat” : 40.85767,
“lng” : -79.97081
},
“resolution” : 2.385987997055054
},
{
“elevation” : 408.1244506835938,
“location” :
{
“lat” : 40.85751,
“lng” : -79.9709
},
“resolution” : 2.385987997055054
},
{
“elevation” : 408.2221069335938,
“location” :
{
“lat” : 40.8574,
“lng” : -79.97098
},
“resolution” : 2.385987997055054
},
{
“elevation” : 407.7518920898438,
“location” :
{
“lat” : 40.85715,
“lng” : -79.97105999999999
},
“resolution” : 2.385987997055054
}
],
“status” : “OK”
}
Hi Sluggo,
I’m in the process of creating a CAD drawing of the trajectory of the first bullet in the Trump assassination attempt using your elevations. I’m completely unfamiliar with LiDAR. Is that the source of your elevation data?
What I’m having difficulty reconciling is your ground elevation at Building 6. I know it’s not much (it’s all that I have to go on) but Google Earth indicates that the elevation on the south side of the building is 1337. The unknown architect that Chris quotes claims the building to be about 15’ 5 3/8" tall at the west end. My best estimate is 15’ 2 3/8" plus the ridge cap, so about the same. Your data, I believe, seems to indicate that the elevation “behind the peak where the shooter’s body was located (is) 1350.2 ft”. Are you saying that the peak of the roof is 1350.2 or that’s the elevation where his body was located? Head or feet? Then you go on to say in the next line “estimate shooters profile above peak at 1.5 ft 1351.7”, the top of his head or the barrel of his rifle? The elevation that I understand you to assert at the peak of the roof is 1350.2 (and the shooter raised up 1.5’ above it). If I subtract the height of the building (15’ 5"±) that means that the ground elevation is 1334.75, 2.25’ below what Google Earth indicates. I didn’t see that you specified what the ground elevation is on the south side of Building 6. Does LiDAR indicate something different than 1337?
Anyway, I don’t mean to be a stickler for details, but I am. 2.25’ in elevation, whether on the ground or on the roof makes a big difference in trajectory. I’m just trying to be as accurate as possible and understand your elevations. By the way, I was the one who found and supplied the Speedy Bleachers drawing, and the height at the top of the back railing is 11’ 2 1/2", not 11’.
The 1350.2 elevation is beyond (north) of the peak approximately where the shooter’s head supposedly was. 1351.7 was an estimate of where the shooter’s head would be above the point noted above.
The ground elevation south of the building is around 1337 but the terrain dips to 1334 starting at 1337 30ft from the building and sloping down toward the building, leveling off to 1334 about 10ft from the building. The building footprint is carved out of the surrounding terrain.
Source of data is USGS National LiDAR Dataset. I downloaded the LiDAR and made the DSM from it.
You want me to export an XML file for you so you can bring the surface into CAD?
Roger, quick question. What is the distance you have for Crooks’s location on the roof to Trump’s head?
Hi guys,
Thanks for all the feedback. The more we are the more accurate we get. Just to clarify, we should all be using the same software to avoid many questions and discrepancies. I have found that “Google Earth Pro” has the best ability to exactly point to the points of interest and to get the exact elevations. Please go ahead and download Google Earth pro for free, enter “Butler Farm Show Airport” in the search. There you can find our place of interest, then simply click the ruler and don’t forget to activate in the Path tab “Show elevation profile” Set the path of interest and you get the results as images below.
