Hey VT,
Great info about Google Earth history. I clicked the history button and found our image. The history time in Google Earth shows 5/23, but looking at my screenshot timestamp, it was unchanged on July 23. That means between July 23 and today, Google covered up the important dirt roads that helps us so much orient the two pictures. Another incredible coincidence? I don’t think so…
The location of the red x in norwegian70’s graphic seems to me to be a good position to at least consider. If a shooter at that location used a lighter load, then the difference between supersonic crack “flight time” and actual report may have been pretty close together, and the trajectory might have been a little different.
The sight angle between these two elevations seems to be close.
Dear Chris,
Referring to your Video of today: “Audio Analysis Most Consistent Two Shooters At Trump Rally - Peak Prosperity” I watched with great pleasure. I would like to comment on two points:
First of all, you showed my post with the position of Crooks. Unfortunately, that was simply a wrong screenshot I put on there. schroederized could clarify the exact spot of Crooks right hand in post 193 It is at 39 feet. Maybe you want to show this corrected position in your next YouTube to avoid any confusion for any other independent investigators. Below is a self-explanatory Picture
2nd point: I would like to challenge DMonk’s drawing you showed on todays show. He starts at floor level of 1331 bottom of stair case and ads 2 feet stair case, indicating the building 6 is at 1333 feet altitude. Our team at “Site Reconstruction of the Assassination Attempt” here on Peak Prosperity has discussed this topic many times. We claim the building is at 1335 feet height. The problem with programs giving out heights like Google Maps and probably CalTop is that they always give you the highest point. For example, if you click beside the building, you get the floor height of the side of the building, however when you click on the roof, you get the height of the roof. But we want to know the height of floor level of the building. Clicking beside the property is not accurate. This is why we should work with topographical maps, which only shows floor levels, even if there is a building on it. Google Earth Pro (downloadable for free) supports this feature. I recommend everybody to sacrifice 10 Min to take a crash course on how to measure slops in Google Earth Pro. Here is a link:
So if you use this method with Google Earth Pro, you can draw a line through the entire building 6 and you can see exactly that the floor level of the building is at 1335 and not 1333. This is a big game change if the building is 2 feet higher! Some people claim that Google Earth Pro is not an accurate source, you need to import topographical maps in KML format if you want accurate data. Fortunately, from a friend who has access to this data I was able to get the KML of the Trump Rally in Butler 2024. I am sharing this file here:
So everybody can do the following:
- Install Google Earth Pro for free
- Watch the crash course how to measure slops in Google Earth Pro
- Download the KML file from Google drive in the link below and double click on the file. Google Earth should automatically launch, and the Trump rally boundary should be activated in red
- Measure the slop of building 6 with the method you lerned in the YouTube video
- If you do everything correctly you can see the below screenshot which indicate two important things: The stairs that DMonks start is at 1333 feet and not 1331, the height of the floor of building 6 is 1335.
Please pass this information on to DMonks. In addition, we would like to get in contact with DMonk so that we can compare our data. Or even better he joins our community at this Forum: “Site Reconstruction of the Assassination Attempt”
Together we are strong!
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Roger-Knight,
I feel compelled to correct something you stated recently in post 203. I did not say that Crooks’ right hand was 39’ from the east end of the roof. In our exchange yesterday, I was just pointing out that Crooks was lying on the 20th roofing panel and the center of that panel was 39’ from the east end of the roof.
Quoting from my post 193: “Crooks was lying in the middle of the panel, so I’m going with 39’, but 40’ would probably be more accurate since he was shooting right-handed, or so I presume.”
I was disappointed last night watching Chris display the CAD drawings of the bleachers. They weren’t representations of the Speedy Bleachers that were actually used at the rally. Instead, one of the “Big 8 Assumptions” indicated that specifications for Belson Standard bleachers were used. Why would one do that? If Chris’ staff would read the forum, they would see that the factory design drawing of the Speedy Bleachers was actually provided in post 114 on July 30. This is important information that could have (should have) been shared with DMonk.
Another one of the “Big Assumptions” that I have a problem with is the height of the stage. I too looked at video showing the Secret Service personnel standing by the stage in order to estimate the height and noted it was near the middle of their rib cage. At 6’ tall, that area is about 48". Now on that short little Secret Service lady that couldn’t holster her weapon, 40" might be around her shoulders and that would throw all dimensions off. The height of the stage, and therefore the height of Trump’s ear is critical to this investigation. Too bad that stage wasn’t part of the J6 investigation, we’d know every detail about it.
Note to DMonk, if you need a copy of the Speedy Bleachers drawing in .dwg format, I can provide that.
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Anyone have Knowledge of the correct inputs for modeling the ballistics?
I’m using this calculator:
Ballistic Calculator GunData.org
Achieved this results:
Considering this munition (5.56) weighting between 35g and 60g, I achieved a vertical drop of only 0.8 to 1.4 inches at 180 Yards where the 1th victim (David Dutch) was. The zero range considered is 153Yards (Trump Position). The initial velocity considered is 3200 ft/sec.
The horizontal wind drift is between 0.9 and 2.3 inches (at 180 Yards) for 7MPH (according to my wind estimation), considering also that it hit Trump at 153 yards with drift compensation between 1.4 and 4 inches.
Hey Roger, could you analyze this post i made and see if it matches your model?
This could help validate the elevations.
Hi schroederized,
Yes, I agree, at least Chris could have shown the drawing to us first and get our feedback. He might have his reasons. In any case it should not stop us from continuing our work. The drawing from DMonk could not debunk any of our data, but we were able to debunk a lot of his.
Since you are a professional CAD drawer, could you make a similar drawing like DMonk, showing all 3 positions (Crooks, Trump and bleachers) and the retraced bullet, but using our numbers? Below you can see my Excel table. For the stage height I am at 45” for the following reason. If you look at the 6 steps that lead up to the stage, the first one is a low step, but the last step is higher. When I ask Open AI the average height of 6 stairs it replies 45 inches.
You once asked me about the wooden blocks under the blisters. As you can see they put the end poles under pressure to stabilize by the means of a hydraulic jack. I don’t think the wheels are off the floor, but the long metal bars do have a certain elasticity. So, I am sure we are not too far away from reality if we add 4 inches to the height.
Definitely possible from angle and would have downward trajectory. Would need thorough elevation analysis to confirm if lines up for trumps ear to railing.
My initial thought was a flashlight from LEO checking the room. See my related post about a new related thought.
Here’s another view of the casings from a different time in the video. Audio & Video of the Assassination Attempt - #217 by brian60221
I guess this is as good as any thread to drop this new Spa Guy drone coverage out tonight.
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Question: How long does it take so much blood flows away from a body?
My conclusion: The shooter was alive when policemen arrived.
However…
Is it blood at all or magic ink?
On the helicopter footage of abandoned roof seems no blood.
(picture)
Who and when made this helifootage?
We should clarify in the time line.
What time they washed the roof?
Sorry, only 1 pictures allowed. 
Let met help you with that. Caliber should be 5.56x45mm, and the next best alternative for the calculator would be .223 remington data.
Bullet weight (or projectile weight) is important. It comes in 55, 62 or 77 grains. At that distance this parameter changes trajectories more than, say, altitude and temperature. Each brand and projectile weight will have different velocities, coefficients and maybe even drag function, but since we don’t know what he used, the most common ammo would be the 55, so I’ll use 55’s data. It’s important for everyone to know that the 62 grains bullet will have a better grouping at that distance than the 55 grains, and the 77 wouldn’t be so big a difference from the 62. This concept of grouping means that, given the caliber, rifle and ammo, even if the weapon remained perfectly still throughout all shots, the bullets would not hit the exact same hole. This is normal, it’s just that the combination of weapon-caliber-ammo can’t achieve a higher precision.The rifles that can achieve much better precision are called sub-MOA rifles, and usually are fed with much better bullets than Crooks must have used. Keep in mind that the usual max distance for Crooks’ combination of rifle-caliber-ammo is around 330-380 yards. Much more than that and the projectile dispersion would be so inadequate for the attempt that a ‘professional’ (to use the forum’s term) wouldn’t consider this if he/she wanted better odds, unless of course such a shooter had to use this combination for other reasons.
All right…
For 55 grains, your coefficient and speed are ok. Usually I use 0.272 and 3260 fps for the ammo I have. If you want to try variations, keep bc between 0.264-0.272 and speed 3050-3260 fps. Drag function: keep it G1 for 5.56x45.
Shooting angle: keep it 0, and I wouldn’t even bother changing it if the angle was less than -+5 degrees. When the shot is fired upwards or downwards at a target, if the angle is higher than 5 degrees, than one would have to compensate for that shot. It wasn’t the case. Even if the 3D modelling comes up with, say 1, 2 or 3 degrees, keep it 0.
Sight height above bore is what it says. Crooks used a 2MOA Holosun holographic red dot from one of the videos I’ve seen, and I would say 2 inches possibly.
ZERO RANGE: you got this one wrong. The zero range is not the distance to target. It is the distance at which the sights of a rifle are configured in such a way that the bullet will hit the exact crosshairs, without using any recticle compensation (and reticle compensation is essentially pointing the gun a little higher or a little lower, using the marks on the scope or red-dot to aim in such a manner that at a different distance than the zero range you can actually hit the target due to the path that bullet makes during trajectory). Zeroing a rifle is going to a range, setting up a paper target at the distance you want to zero that rifle for, firing a few shots, then turning knobs on the scope or red-dot, firing again, until you find that the bullets are hiting exactly the crosshairs. It’s something that Crooks would have done on that visit to the range the day before, for instance. The usual distances for zeroing are 25, 36, 50 and 100 yards. Some people do use 150 and 200 yards.More than that is not common, I would say. You might want to try 5 of these zeros and compare. Try hornady’s ballistic calculator online too.
Distance to show: 190 is ok. 320 if you want to examine other scenarios…
Distance Step: 20 yards
Atmospheric: I would keep it off or maybe 85 F, zero altitude, 29.53, 78%
At that distance and Butler’s altitude I don’t think it would make much difference.
I just watched this video which discusses, analyses and uses a timestamped transcript of the communications between local LE which sheds light on where the communication breakdown was between SS and the ESU (by design?) also paints a valid alternative path that Crooks may have taken to get from the ground to his final location on the roof.
jeffostroff - Trump Shooting Cops Timestamp Radio Calls Shocking Clues
3 Likes
Thanks for the reply. I know the aerodynamic theory well, what I don’t know is the weapons parameters.
I still don’t understand the zeroing. For example, if I consider 25 yards as zero it would miss trumps ears. At the end I’m only looking at the ballistics, to estimate the drift and drop at the 180 yard position (where the 1th victim was), having knowledge that it hit Trump at 153 yards, where it must pass at zero.
(edit) I tested scenarios varying drag coefficient from 0.14 to 0.4, velocity from 3050 to 3200 ft/s, weight from 40 grams to 77 grams, altitude from 0 to 1350ft, using both calculators. The most probable scenario is 1 inch drop at 180 yards varying from 0.7 to 1.4 inch, considering zero drop at 153 yards. For the drift the medium scenario at 180 yards is 1.5 inches to the East varying from 0.7 to 2.3 inches.
Daniloraf,
from your experience, at what distance can you hear the sonic crack of a projectile like 5.56x45mm? 1 m, 10 m, 50 m, 100 m? Are there scientific/technical data about sound pressure vs. perpendicular distance from the path of the projectile? Or could someone with access to such a weapon just do a field test at a shooting range in the open?
So this is the another picture, koz I could post only one.
Following my previous reply I now see Spa Guy has posted a detailed video discussing this alternate route onto the roof
here: Spa Guy - Updated Drone Analysis: Rooftop Access Butler’s Trump Assassination Attempt How Did He Get on Roof?
I see this has already been posted by @sgt-raven but you can delete it if you think it has already been submitted successfully
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